Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[OLY82]

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I honestly don't see the point. VHS to DVD was a huge upgrade. DVD to Bluray the same. Digital is a downgrade, I don't get why you (speaking generally) would want to do that. Unless you cherish movies on a 3 inch screen.

There's multiple reasons that I've outlined here (on previous pages) about wanting to go digital. I know it's not for everyone, especially physical media die hards, but it's bound to increase in popularity over time. The inevitable increase in popularity isn't a reason for a non-believer to want to switch, though. I mention it to help illustrate that it has the potential to provide more reasons for more people to join in over time.

If the quality increases to the point that it really is difficult/impossible to tell the difference between digital and Blu-ray on a large display, that will convince many die hards to switch. Even at this point, it offers up an above average quality that is acceptable to most people who are accustomed to watching Netflix or cable TV or DVD or even Blu-ray.

Does that mean it rivals Blu-ray quality under close scrutiny? Absolutely not. I've repeatedly admitted that Digital HD offers inferior quality compared to Blu-ray. That is in no way up for debate. Hardcore video/audio-philes need not apply. Digital is not ready for prime time as far as you're concerned.

Convenience is a huge factor. There's no way to beat around the bush here. It's incredibly convenient (and in my case a relief) to not have to carefully take the Blu-ray case off the shelf, carefully remove the disc from its hub and carefully insert it into the player.

I can treat my discs as delicately as can be, but I always wonder if at some point it's been damaged even the slightest little bit. I wonder if it has jiggled too much on its hub and that will cause damage someday. I know Blu-rays are pretty durable, but I worry about their longevity.

I had heard that many copies of the Wallace & Gromit Blu-rays stopped working because of some manufacturing defect. I tested mine and it still played fine, but I'm not taking any chances. I bought the digital collection as soon as I saw it on sale. I have other movies/shows on digital just in case the discs stop working as well (my Captain America: Winter Soldier 2D disc now skips for no reason, but I still have it in 3D and on digital).

As for the 3 inch screen reference, it's been discussed a great many times. A good portion of people watching digital are not watching it on a phone or watch (at least not at all times). A lot of people still like watching movies on a TV screen. People own larger and larger TV screens nowadays too. As long as TV manufacturers continue to make large TVs, digital will be forced to maintain a standard of quality. So far, digital has only gotten better. Why wouldn't it continue to get better?

Also, there are sometimes iTunes Extras that are exclusive. I'm a sucker for exclusive special features, which was one of the reasons I upgraded from DVD to Blu-ray (aside from the picture improvement).

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

Unless you have a scratched disc and it becomes unplayable!

Right there with you on that one. It's a fear of mine. Granted, it hasn't happened often, but even if it isn't a scratch that stops it from playing, it could be due to disc rot or poor manufacturing. Sometimes it causes it to skip. Of course, nothing is perfect, but at least digital doesn't involve a spinning disc that can stop working through no fault of your own.

I believe in twenty years, physical media will seem silly to most people. I love the feeling of holding it in my hand in a store and having it sit on my shelf, but in twenty years would I rather have thousands more movies on my shelf or just a larger digital collection? I'm leaning towards the de-cluttered nature of digital. Maybe we could navigate our massive digital collections like the computer screen in Minority Report where you wave your hands around.

Originally Posted by voltz

Tell me something, once physical is gone are we going to have to fully resort to piracy to get "exactly" what it is we are looking for? Please be serious with your answer on this.

There are things about digital that are scary, I'll admit. Giving up some of your control or being strictly limited by your region when it comes to titles and unique transfers/cuts/features is less than ideal. That's worth discussing. Maybe congress or some other entity could force the studios to release every film digitally so nothing gets forgotten over time. Maybe they'll have to be made available for the good of film history. That's a tough one.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by OLY82

That's about the size of screen you guys will be watching on!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

There's multiple reasons that I've outlined here (on previous pages) about wanting to go digital. I know it's not for everyone, especially physical media die hards, but it's bound to increase in popularity over time. The inevitable increase in popularity isn't a reason for a non-believer to want to switch, though. I mention it to help illustrate that it has the potential to provide more reasons for more people to join in over time.

If the quality increases to the point that it really is difficult/impossible to tell the difference between digital and Blu-ray on a large display, that will convince many die hards to switch. Even at this point, it offers up an above average quality that is acceptable to most people who are accustomed to watching Netflix or cable TV or DVD or even Blu-ray.

Does that mean it rivals Blu-ray quality under close scrutiny? Absolutely not. I've repeatedly admitted that Digital HD offers inferior quality compared to Blu-ray. That is in no way up for debate. Hardcore video/audio-philes need not apply. Digital is not ready for prime time as far as you're concerned.

Convenience is a huge factor. There's no way to beat around the bush here. It's incredibly convenient (and in my case a relief) to not have to carefully take the Blu-ray case off the shelf, carefully remove the disc from its hub and carefully insert it into the player.

I can treat my discs as delicately as can be, but I always wonder if at some point it's been damaged even the slightest little bit. I wonder if it has jiggled too much on its hub and that will cause damage someday. I know Blu-rays are pretty durable, but I worry about their longevity.

I had heard that many copies of the Wallace & Gromit Blu-rays stopped working because of some manufacturing defect. I tested mine and it still played fine, but I'm not taking any chances. I bought the digital collection as soon as I saw it on sale. I have other movies/shows on digital just in case the discs stop working as well (my Captain America: Winter Soldier 2D disc now skips for no reason, but I still have it in 3D and on digital).

As for the 3 inch screen reference, it's been discussed a great many times. A good portion of people watching digital are not watching it on a phone or watch (at least not at all times). A lot of people still like watching movies on a TV screen. People own larger and larger TV screens nowadays too. As long as TV manufacturers continue to make large TVs, digital will be forced to maintain a standard of quality. So far, digital has only gotten better. Why wouldn't it continue to get better?

Also, there are sometimes iTunes Extras that are exclusive. I'm a sucker for exclusive special features, which was one of the reasons I upgraded from DVD to Blu-ray (aside from the picture improvement).


Right there with you on that one. It's a fear of mine. Granted, it hasn't happened often, but even if it isn't a scratch that stops it from playing, it could be due to disc rot or poor manufacturing. Sometimes it causes it to skip. Of course, nothing is perfect, but at least digital doesn't involve a spinning disc that can stop working through no fault of your own.

I believe in twenty years, physical media will seem silly to most people. I love the feeling of holding it in my hand in a store and having it sit on my shelf, but in twenty years would I rather have thousands more movies on my shelf or just a larger digital collection? I'm leaning towards the de-cluttered nature of digital. Maybe we could navigate our massive digital collections like the computer screen in Minority Report where you wave your hands around.


There are things about digital that are scary, I'll admit. Giving up some of your control or being strictly limited by your region when it comes to titles and unique transfers/cuts/features is less than ideal. That's worth discussing. Maybe congress or some other entity could force the studios to release every film digitally so nothing gets forgotten over time. Maybe they'll have to be made available for the good of film history. That's a tough one.

I refer to that pay by screen size plan again. Overnight! Puff! Smartphones dominate, tv screens are on the back burner. Remember cheap wins the day.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I refer to that pay by screen size plan again. Overnight! Puff! Smartphones dominate, tv screens are on the back burner. Remember cheap wins the day.

Then why are phones/tablets/TVs getting larger? Doesn't that suggest there's still a demand for larger displays?

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by audiobean

On a side note, the delivery protocol of paid download Digital media is IMHO too weak, BT of 20GB data on peer-to-peer structure works properly, but server download of paid 20GB Digital movie is simply not existing (technically not possible?).

It's absolutely possible. Look at Steam, for example. Many game downloads are much larger than 20GB. Content distribution networks have made amazing progress. The providers understand very well how to scale up Internet-based video delivery these days. Netflix today causes almost 40% of all Internet traffic in the US, and the vast majority of users have a near flawless experience even in high-usage periods (evenings and weekends).

So should you pay something for a lower quality over convenience? Just think a little more before clicking the next Buy.

As previously mentioned, the quality differences are getting smaller and smaller, and in some regards UHD streams already exceed standard Blu-ray quality.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

Then why are phones/tablets/TVs getting larger? Doesn't that suggest there's still a demand for larger displays?

Yes but a sudden difference in price for purchasing or renting a movie will cause a drastic switch to smartphones.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by voltz

While I was browsing caps-a-holic, I grew worried on something where in the future we're going to lose the right to chose whichever version of a film we want, plus full region blocking may once again become the norm. I'm really scared of this happening.

Another advantage of iTunes: No geoblocking.

Tell me something, once physical is gone are we going to have to fully resort to piracy to get "exactly" what it is we are looking for? Please be serious with your answer on this.

OK, serious answer: There is no excuse for piracy whatsoever.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yes but a sudden difference in price for purchasing or renting a movie will cause a drastic switch to smartphones.

Maybe at first, but I'd bet most people would regret it later when they realize they want to watch it on more than just their phone. I guess I don't want to believe that the majority of people would turn to their phones for all their entertainment. That would really be sad. Unless phones become the size of TVs. Heh

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

Maybe at first, but I'd bet most people would regret it later when they realize they want to watch it on more than just their phone. I guess I don't want to believe that the majority of people would turn to their phones for all their entertainment. That would really be sad. Unless phones become the size of TVs. Heh

Even the though of that is enough to keep me away from Digital for the rest of my life.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

Maybe at first, but I'd bet most people would regret it later when they realize they want to watch it on more than just their phone. I guess I don't want to believe that the majority of people would turn to their phones for all their entertainment. That would really be sad. Unless phones become the size of TVs. Heh

Or smartwatches even (gets ready for onslaught)

[voltz]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

There is no excuse for piracy whatsoever.

This is true, yet people are going to do it and in many cases it will be the only feasible means. It might actually look like the same situation when games were downloaded because of all the intrusive malware/drm that was included, but instead it's going to be the parent company's bull**** telling us what we're allowed to watch. Most of us aren't going to go with that at all.

and yeah I could imagine an impending RIAA-style crackdown to follow at some point.

[tiger_qc]

You buy a Blu-ray and 95% of the time it comes with a DC so everybody should be happy. What's the point of paying full price for a digital movie when you can get the 1080p hard copy and digital one for pretty much the same price?

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Even the though of that is enough to keep me away from Digital for the rest of my life.

I guess we both have our hang ups about each format.

I don't see a digital future as a future without TVs or HD. You do. I see it as a future where everything is at your fingertips. Like the internet itself. It's changed the world.

I see physical media as a mixed bag, where the quality is unsurpassed, but it's not without its headaches. You see it as the be-all-end-all of home media. By all means, keep thinking that way. You're not looney for thinking it. Blu-ray really has amazing quality, and UHD Blu-ray supposedly blows it away. Physical media isn't dead. It will just become more niche over time. That's not a reason to quit supporting it. I'm not quitting. I'm just diversifying.

Ideally, the physical media I buy will either be 3D Blu-ray, UHD Blu-ray or regular Blu-rays that have features not found on digital. That's my plan.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Or smartwatches even (gets ready for onslaught)

I might get an Apple Watch in the future, but I can't imagine myself watching movies on it. I can hardly handle watching an entire movie straight through on my 5.5 inch iPhone while traveling. That would really be unbelievable if people started doing this and it's considered normal.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by voltz

This is true, yet people are going to do it and in many cases it will be the only feasible means.

The only means to do what?

It might actually look like the same situation when games were downloaded because of all the intrusive malware/drm that was included, but instead it's going to be the parent company's bull**** telling us what we're allowed to watch. Most of us aren't going to go with that at all.

They already tell you what you can and cannot watch (by deciding what they release and not release, putting region codes on discs etc.). And they have every right to, since it's their content and you are not entitled to it. That said, it's obviously in their interest to sell the content to you, not to keep it away from you. I don't see any reason why the situation with digital delivery should be any different than with disc-based delivery.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

The only means to do what?
They already tell you what you can and cannot watch (by deciding what they release and not release, putting region codes on discs etc.). And they have every right to, since it's their content and you are not entitled to it. That said, it's obviously in their interest to sell the content to you, not to keep it away from you. I don't see any reason why the situation with digital delivery should be any different than with disc-based delivery.

Their fear is that they won't be able to get an official version of the unaltered Star Wars trilogy on digital or True Lies or The Abyss. And so on. Cuz, you know, those are all available on Blu-ray because Blu-ray is perfect. What? Those aren't out? It must be digital's fault! Heh

They do have a point about regions, though. If another country gets a movie you want and you have an all-region BD player, you can pick it up.

With certain digital providers, like Vudu, you can't even access it outside the United States. You could be out of luck if another country's digital provider has a movie you want.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

They do have a point about regions, though. If another country gets a movie you want and you have an all-region BD player, you can pick it up.

With certain digital providers, like Vudu, you can't even access it outside the United States. You could be out of luck if another country's digital provider has a movie you want.

You can circumvent such restrictions just like you can circumvent region codes on discs (e.g. by using a VPN). But that's not really the point.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

You can circumvent such restrictions just like you can circumvent region codes on discs (e.g. by using a VPN). But that's not really the point.

True. It would be much like now. When there's a will, there's a way. And piracy never has to enter the picture.

[voltz]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

With certain digital providers, like Vudu, you can't even access it outside the United States. You could be out of luck if another country's digital provider has a movie you want.

And we've seen Netflix deliver a pretty major blow to users when it was decided they didn't want to allow vpn's on their network. Quite ironic they kill the rental industry and pull this @#$% on everyone.