The Official Paradigm Subwoofer Owners Thread

[sonic_debauchery]

Perhaps you guys are right? Physics is physics. Some laws can be bent however. I don't know if the ff5 will reach 12 hz myself. I am leaning more towards the hsu vtf 15. 15 inch 100lbs and nice to look at. I am also still considering the outlaw LFM1 plus. 549 pricepoint, essentially a HSU sub. The epik are cool and rythmik looks promising. Problem is they are all internet based. I don't want to fork out cash if i don't like it to return it.

the ff4 is rated to 14 hz not 12 hz (not that it matters) you may be right> Does anyone think the shape of the goldenears with bottom reflector have anything to do with the low frequency register???

So which subs are at a store that would be good for around the 1k mark??

[Woody]

Originally Posted by DerrellB

Those were most sentiments. I dont understand why some people don't get that this is more about physics than anything. You just can't get ext that low with a small box. Look at the JL audio subs and the new svs sub. The f113 is +/- 3 at 18hz. It has a small footprint but still weighs in at 130lbs. To say that the forcefield gets down to 12hz is absurb. Definitive technology makes the same claim with their supercube and you can google how wrong they have been until like the trinity which from what I read is a really nice sub. Golden ear sub have the close to the same similiarities in drivers and designs that the supercubes have.


Edit: Just went and looked at the golden ear forcefield 4 sub. 14X12 weighing in at 32 lbs. If you think thats going to hit 12hz, your dreaming. I am with Andrew. I would be shocked if you had usable extension below 30hz. It probably has great mid bass though.

I used to sell Def Techs YEARS ago and they were always big on marketing and pretty crazy claims (bass extension, wattage, etc.). Reading Goldenear's site sounds A LOT like the old Def Tech literature and marketing.

They used to do the same thing with their wattage output as they do now too by claiming peak output vs. RMS output in order to have more gawdy numbers. I am not sure how they get away with it when almost EVERY other sub manufacturer pretty clearly delineates RMS vs. peak output.

*shrug*

I actually liked the product because it rocked for HT. I used to own a def tech system before they put the powered subwoofers in all of them and changed all of the drivers.

[Woody]

Originally Posted by sonic_debauchery

Perhaps you guys are right? Physics is physics. Some laws can be bent however. I don't know if the ff5 will reach 12 hz myself. I am leaning more towards the hsu vtf 15. 15 inch 100lbs and nice to look at. I am also still considering the outlaw LFM1 plus. 549 pricepoint, essentially a HSU sub. The epik are cool and rythmik looks promising. Problem is they are all internet based. I don't want to fork out cash if i don't like it to return it.

the ff4 is rated to 14 hz not 12 hz (not that it matters) you may be right> Does anyone think the shape of the goldenears with bottom reflector have anything to do with the low frequency register???

So which subs are at a store that would be good for around the 1k mark??

I also can't stand the thought of buying anything without hearing it first.

Passive radiators in general have been around for a while. They are typically used to enhance bass from smaller cabinet subs or subs with smaller amps from my experience. They work of course or they wouldn't be used.

From my experience they tend to be boomy because the passive radiator has almost no ability to be controlled by the amp or a servo control. If the amplified woofer gets out of control and distorts the passive radiator makes it worse.

[aces high]

Originally Posted by sonic_debauchery

Perhaps you guys are right? Physics is physics. Some laws can be bent however. I don't know if the ff5 will reach 12 hz myself. I am leaning more towards the hsu vtf 15. 15 inch 100lbs and nice to look at. I am also still considering the outlaw LFM1 plus. 549 pricepoint, essentially a HSU sub. The epik are cool and rythmik looks promising. Problem is they are all internet based. I don't want to fork out cash if i don't like it to return it.

the ff4 is rated to 14 hz not 12 hz (not that it matters) you may be right> Does anyone think the shape of the goldenears with bottom reflector have anything to do with the low frequency register???

So which subs are at a store that would be good for around the 1k mark??

That's a tough one, I would say if you could find a Paradigm Servo v2 in good condition that would be what I would do. If you can find a dealer who has the Digm Sub 15 you'll have a really good idea of what it sounds like. This may not be what you had in mind but it's an excellent sub that I've seen going for some pretty good prices these days. That's what coming off the top of my head, I'll try and think of something else.

[sonic_debauchery]

i FOUND THIS REVIEW DONE YESTERDAY BY AUDIOHOLICS, SEEMS GOOD FOR THE PRICE. WHAT DO Y'ALL THINK???? O
NLY THING IS YOU CAN'T HEAR BEFORE YOU BUY. SOME RISK



Outlaw Audio has created an over achiever with the LFM-1 EX by following a proven formula. A bass reflex enclosure slightly larger than normal with a decent sized amplifier and a cost effective driver. I really don’t have a lot of negative things to comment on about it considering the total cost of the unit. The finish looked nice but did appear to be perhaps slightly uneven and had a slightly cloudy or uneven appearance to it. I thought that I detected some panel buzz from the enclosure during the highest level sine wave sweeps but there isn’t much program material that is similar to that signal and there is also usually masking content, not to mention rattles and vibrations from the typical room or objects in it. The ports did overload and limit the low bass output some, especially in one port mode where chuffing was audible at times. Again this might be masked in a typical scenario. Perhaps if they redesign the unit they could add a few more internal braces, beef up the driver some and increase the vent area. The LFM-1 EX also does not offer a lot in the way of connectivity or user adjustment. This sort of thing does not bother me particularly but I would like to see a line out to daisy chain other subwoofers from at least.

Looking at the sum of the measurements the LFM-1 EX performs well in almost every major metric. The response is smooth enough and flat enough to be crossed over well above 120Hz. The output compression performance is not great due to the ports, but is not bad either. It has good THD performance especially in two ports operation where it is essentially below 10% everywhere at 25Hz and above even during the 110db nominal sweep level. The maximum sweep level and the CEA2010 results show that the LFM-1 EX has a generous amount of output and not just at the upper bass frequencies like many “subwoofers”, it has deep extension and produces an honest to goodness 100dB+ at 20Hz. There is a little bit of delay near the vent tunings when looking at the time domain measurements but certainly nothing out of the ordinary for a vented subwoofer. I do have to say that I would recommend running this subwoofer with both ports open as the single port mode is simply overloaded and compressed too easily in comparison. On top of that the maximum headroom at 20Hz and above is better as is the distortion performance with both ports open.

Taken as a whole the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX performed very well, but when you add in the fact that it came from a subwoofer which retails for under $650 it takes on a new aspect. I have a few things that I think could be improved sure like more bracing, a little higher quality finish, more flexible amplifier connections, more substantial driver, etc, but they are understandable traits when put in perspective of the cost of the LFM-1 EX. Don’t get me wrong the Outlaw looks great and didn’t have any serious cosmetic or build flaws, but it’s not quite as buttoned up as some multi thousand dollar subwoofers, which is understandable certainly. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to the Outlaw on movie night where it really did well reproducing a very strenuous movie sound track in a large room, including some solid deep bass. It also managed to sound very natural and just plain old good with music. Not the most articulate bass ever , but quite good. I still could use more output headroom for my listening habits and room but the LFM-1 EX makes a strong case for multiples with its frugal price point. The LFM-1 EX does a lot right and makes no major mistakes all while providing huge bang for the buck value. Outlaw has knocked this one out of the park as far as I’m concerned. Budget conscious sub shoppers looking to fill a large space take note.

The Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX receives the Audioholics Bassoholic Large room rating, which means that this sub is recommended as maintaining adequate headroom in rooms or spaces of 3,000 to 5,000 cubic feet and/or for users who usually listen at moderate to high volume levels. For further information in how we make these recommendations see the full article here.

Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX Review
MSRP: $649

[JJ]

Good points here in the last few posts about the GE Forcefields. And my sub quest continues.

[ADK]

I'm now a proud new owner of Paradigm's Sub 12 and Perfect Bass Kit (PBK). Talk about major wow factor after unboxing! If the 88lbs isn't enough, it just looks like a beast, the driver, the curves, the finish, all look spectacular.

HQ PARADIGM SUB 12 PICS BELOW:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6994006...7628044386481/

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by ADK

I'm now a proud new owner of Paradigm's Sub 12 and Perfect Bass Kit (PBK). Talk about major wow factor after unboxing! If the 88lbs isn't enough, it just looks like a beast, the driver, the curves, the finish, all look spectacular.

HQ PARADIGM SUB 12 PICS BELOW:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69940061@N02/sets/72157628044386481/"]http://www.flickr.com/photos/69940061@N02/sets/72157628044386481/[/SIZE]

Congrats on the new sub ADK

[ADK]

Thanks crazyBLUE. It's a bit torturous: I don't yet have my main speakers, and so all I can do now is enjoy it's furniture-like presence in the room.

[B.Hulk]

Originally Posted by ADK

I'm now a proud new owner of Paradigm's Sub 12 and Perfect Bass Kit (PBK). Talk about major wow factor after unboxing! If the 88lbs isn't enough, it just looks like a beast, the driver, the curves, the finish, all look spectacular.

HQ PARADIGM SUB 12 PICS BELOW:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6994006...7628044386481/

That is one gorgeous looking sub.....Congrats....let us know what you think of it when you get it setup....

[sandman922]

Originally Posted by ADK

I'm now a proud new owner of Paradigm's Sub 12 and Perfect Bass Kit (PBK). Talk about major wow factor after unboxing! If the 88lbs isn't enough, it just looks like a beast, the driver, the curves, the finish, all look spectacular.

HQ PARADIGM SUB 12 PICS BELOW:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6994006...7628044386481/

congratulations sweet looking sub gotta love the digms

[Guinness6]

Originally Posted by ADK

I'm now a proud new owner of Paradigm's Sub 12 and Perfect Bass Kit (PBK). Talk about major wow factor after unboxing! If the 88lbs isn't enough, it just looks like a beast, the driver, the curves, the finish, all look spectacular.

Congratulations! I love that their subs are so asthetically pleasing...

[BigAl87]

Originally Posted by ADK

I'm now a proud new owner of Paradigm's Sub 12 and Perfect Bass Kit (PBK). Talk about major wow factor after unboxing! If the 88lbs isn't enough, it just looks like a beast, the driver, the curves, the finish, all look spectacular.

HQ PARADIGM SUB 12 PICS BELOW:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6994006...7628044386481/

Congtrats on that purchase tell us how it performs I love my sub 15

[ADK]

Originally Posted by BigAl87

Congtrats on that purchase tell us how it performs I love my sub 15

Sub 15. Very nice.

Thanks for all the congrats. I will post thoughts on Sub 12 and PBK performance once I get my speakers (mid-late December). I'm really just building my Hi-fi/Home Theatre system; I've just gotten the receiver, CD player, surrounds on loan, and the subwoofer, of course. (already had the PS3). Sorry for the wait: the review/impressions will have to wait a month or so.

[BigAl87]

Originally Posted by ADK

Sub 15. Very nice.

Thanks for all the congrats. I will post thoughts on Sub 12 and PBK performance once I get my speakers (mid-late December). I'm really just building my Hi-fi/Home Theatre system; I've just gotten the receiver, CD player, surrounds on loan, and the subwoofer, of course. (already had the PS3). Sorry for the wait: the review/impressions will have to wait a month or so.

I was gonna get the sub 12 brand new but got a deal I could not pass on for a use sub 15. I don't regret my move and looking forward to run dual Sub maybe I'll get a sub 12 in rosewood but not for while. Wroking my way to brand new Totem Hawks Floor standers.

[ADK]

Picked up some budget surrounds (Realistic Minimus 7s) off ebay. Since my Focals aren't here yet, I then hooked the surrounds as mains in conjunction with the Paradigm Sub 12. In doing this I got to glimpse this subwoofer's performance. See later posts for impressions.

Earlier than previously stated (above), my mains will be in my hands this week, if all goes according to plan. Perhaps next week, then, I'll have some sort of informal review to post on the Sub 12. For those who want to see what one looks like in a real-home environment, pictures are available here:http://www.flickr.com/photos/69940061@N02/sets/

[dobyblue]

Was looking to upgrade the power cable on my Servo 15v2.

How does one find cables like this one where it's two pronged at both ends? Any suggestions or ideas?

[davidp71]

Anyone here own the new Paradigm monitor sub 10?....wanted to upgrade my sub. I currently have a velodyne VX-11. I can get the sub 10
For a pretty good price from my local dealer.

[ADK]

FYI: Sub Crossover is set at 60 hZ
So, I've had the Sub 12 long enough now to have watched movies like Saving Private Ryan, Star Wars (various episodes), and others. I've also had opportunity to try the sub out with various CDs as well as the PS3 game, Uncharted 3. So, here are my impressions:

As for movie watching, (in an approx. 300 square foot room; 16'x17'), there's no need to have the gain-dial past one-third (930/10). I set my movie volume according to spoken dialogue at a "normal spoken level." In this context the sub will be the incredible beast it needs to be, when it needs to be.

Click HERE to see the home theater environment of the Sub 12 for this "review."

Here's a short story to illustrate the sub's speed and fine articulation. In Mel Gibson's Edge of Darkness, he's having a conversation with a girl in his car. The camera then shows the girl stepping out of the car from the Mel Gibson's perspective (driver side, inside the car). As she steps out of the passenger seat it's as if she's instantaneously struck by a car from behind. The car slams both her and the car door about 50' down the road. Now, when that car hit, the Sub 12 immediately filled the room with a massive thud that was incredibly punctuated—it was short, powerful, and very well articulated. I watched this movie before so I knew what was coming. Nevertheless, when that car hit, the effect (much thanks to the sub) had me in utter shock. I felt like someone grabbed everything under my rib-cage and shook it vigorously for a split second. It was like the car hit me too! Honestly, I had to pause the movie for a moment to laugh it off and recover. I was watching with my Father-in-law this time around, who hadn't seen this movie before. Lets just say he was a little more shocked than I was, hahah.

Really low bass is a breeze (sometimes quite literally) for this sub. Whenever a soundtrack seems to reach really low, it seems so natural and easy for the sub 12. It's nice to have a sub where you never, ever, worry about its performance in a certain range. The sub really gives me confidence in it to do amazing things no matter what bass-content is going to come out of the blu-ray player. If you want to hear what it's like to have a massive tank roll through your living room, stick on Saving Private Ryan. Your house will shake, and you really will wonder whether the pictures you see moving on the wall will fall off. At the same time, though, rumbles and explosions aren't just big booms, or even big well articulated booms.

This sub will often tune its explosive content as well. That is, it's just another boom or rumble every time something blows up, crashes, or say, some Stardestroyer (Star Wars) moves through space. These things can sound very different, and it brings an important realism to the visual experience. Everything I've said so far about the sub's performance in movies I find to apply to my experience with Uncharted 3, too. This is to be expected, since the game runs just like a movie with the main difference being that you're interacting with the given content.

As for music, I wouldn't recommend this sub (or any for that matter) for music generally. I say this in part because I find my floorstanding speakers quite capable on their own and a fair number of CDs don't seem to have the sort of really low content that might ask for a subwoofer. The other reason is partly because of the limitations of my equipment. I like to let my CD player do the DAC work which means putting my A/V receiver in Pure Direct mode.

On the other hand, there are definitely times where I prefer to listen to music in 2.1. I find including my subwoofer will often make the music sound more as if it's happening live. In these situations the sub is a gem. It brings out bass notes in ways I've not heard before. It can certainly add to the music without taking away any desirables, without seeming out of place, or like a monster singing with angels. If you want to be blown away, stick on a good Dubstep track, and let it rip. Disappointed won't be anywhere near your radar.

That's all for now. I hope this helps someone out. Perhaps I'll post later on my experience with Paradigms PBK.

Cheers.

[dobyblue]

I listen to a lot of 5.1 SACD's, Blu-ray's and DVD-A's and I highly recommend the Servo 15v2 with its effortless ability to play low and clean with minimal distortion. Love it for music.