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Old Today, 05:06 AM   #401
whysleep whysleep is offline
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Originally Posted by mar3o View Post
Yep, no teal/cyan at all here (from mondo's site).
You do know that your dreaded teal/cyan exists in real life, right? The first two caps feature fluorescent lighting over tile and steel backdrops, so they're bound to have some, even if the contrast seems a bit high. And if it affects only specific parts of the frame, it certainly isn't a "teal/cyan push", just all colors looking equally boosted. I definitely don't see it on the third cap, unless of course you're comparing it directly with the old master, which, again, you shouldn't, as it has a predominant washed out pinkish look to it, so of course a balanced scheme will look colder in comparison. Or, as you like to call it, "teal/cyan"...

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Originally Posted by mar3o View Post
His point is valid though. Everyone always insists the newest master is the "correct one, finally!" until the next one, then they say the previous one was wrong, and the new one is correct, finally! It happens all the time.
It didn't happen this time, though, this batch of scanner noise masters was never considered correct.

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Originally Posted by mar3o View Post
I think it's obvious the color grading is certainly a drastic difference from previous transfers.
The same can be said about every single previous transfer for this movie since the vhs days. And you say it like it's a bad thing:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDRe...er_blu-ray.htm

https://whiggles.landofwhimsy.com/wr...orkripper.html

Last edited by whysleep; Today at 05:25 AM.
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Old Today, 06:21 AM   #402
mar3o mar3o is offline
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Originally Posted by whysleep View Post
You do know that your dreaded teal/cyan exists in real life, right? The first two caps feature fluorescent lighting over tile and steel backdrops, so they're bound to have some, even if the contrast seems a bit high. And if it affects only specific parts of the frame, it certainly isn't a "teal/cyan push", just all colors looking equally boosted. I definitely don't see it on the third cap, unless of course you're comparing it directly with the old master, which, again, you shouldn't, as it has a predominant washed out pinkish look to it, so of course a balanced scheme will look colder in comparison. Or, as you like to call it, "teal/cyan"...



It didn't happen this time, though, this batch of scanner noise masters was never considered correct.



The same can be said about every single previous transfer for this movie since the vhs days. And you say it like it's a bad thing:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDRe...er_blu-ray.htm

https://whiggles.landofwhimsy.com/wr...orkripper.html
I agree that the color has been all over the place for this film with each release. That of course can be said for tons of titles if not every title ever. Which is "correct"? That's a debate that happens every time we get a new release. All I'll say is not every new release is accurate or correct. Shout Factory released "The Thing" not too long ago - a new remaster, which many said was the new definitive release. Until Arrow released theirs not long afterwards, with a different remaster with rather different color. Which then people said was the definitive release.

And as I said before, I agree the old master was never great, as there was a magenta push, and obvious scanner noise.

Sure I'm aware that teal exists in real life. Of course. And as I said before, I understand how colors on film can be affected by lighting. People are trying to make me appear to be an idiot, because I have a preference for less saturated/less teal images. As I said before, I worked in photo developing for over 10 years, and I took my job seriously. I learned a lot during that time. And I'm aware how "accurate" or "correct" color may indeed be a fool's goal, as there really is no such thing.

Again, it's just my opinion that I don't care for some of the colors I'm seeing here. And as I said, it's not all bad. Some caps look fantastic. Some shots I don't like at all. I'll see how I feel after I watch it.

All of this over the past few pages is because people couldn't accept that I have a different opinion than some - everyone decided to try and prove me wrong, as if I'm not entitled to have my own preferences. I would have made a lot less posts if some (not you specifically) weren't doing their best to ridicule me just for having an opinion.

Anyways, I'm tired of this discussion. It's gone on far longer than I intended. As I said, I'll reserve final judgement until after I see it for myself. All I posted to begin with was a few thoughts on the caps that were posted. I didn't expect everyone to get so upset over it.
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Old Today, 06:38 AM   #403
whysleep whysleep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mar3o View Post
I agree that the color has been all over the place for this film with each release. That of course can be said for tons of titles if not every title ever. Which is "correct"? That's a debate that happens every time we get a new release. All I'll say is not every new release is accurate or correct. Shout Factory released "The Thing" not too long ago - a new remaster, which many said was the new definitive release. Until Arrow released theirs not long afterwards, with a different remaster with rather different color. Which then people said was the definitive release.

And as I said before, I agree the old master was never great, as there was a magenta push, and obvious scanner noise.

Sure I'm aware that teal exists in real life. Of course. And as I said before, I understand how colors on film can be affected by lighting. People are trying to make me appear to be an idiot, because I have a preference for less saturated/less teal images. As I said before, I worked in photo developing for over 10 years, and I took my job seriously. I learned a lot during that time. And I'm aware how "accurate" or "correct" color may indeed be a fool's goal, as there really is no such thing.

Again, it's just my opinion that I don't care for some of the colors I'm seeing here. And as I said, it's not all bad. Some caps look fantastic. Some shots I don't like at all. I'll see how I feel after I watch it.

All of this over the past few pages is because people couldn't accept that I have a different opinion than some - everyone decided to try and prove me wrong, as if I'm not entitled to have my own preferences. I would have made a lot less posts if some (not you specifically) weren't doing their best to ridicule me just for having an opinion.

Anyways, I'm tired of this discussion. It's gone on far longer than I intended. As I said, I'll reserve final judgement until after I see it for myself. All I posted to begin with was a few thoughts on the caps that were posted. I didn't expect everyone to get so upset over it.
Well, it's one thing to say a new transfer is the best the movie has ever looked, another is to say that it's correct. The first NYR blu-ray, when it came out, was considered the best the movie had ever looked on home video, and rightfully so, but it was never considered to be correct, regarding for example the excessive brightness and it's color reproduction, common issues with the now infamous scanner noise masters. This new release, despite the high contrast, in many caps, like you yourself said, it does look fantastic, and it's being called fantastic by many who have it. The previous one, on the other hand, was only called fantastic in comparison, never by itself.

Honestly I believe what ticked people off was your insistence. If you had simply said that you though the contrast was too high, people would've agreed and that would've been it. But you kept insisting with the teal push, defending its existence with contradictory terminology, cherry picking caps that were bound to have a colder look and going through the rest with a fine tooth comb specifically looking for flaws, all while using a known flawed transfer as reference. You went a bit beyond simply having a different opinion, that's what got some people upset. And for what? To support a claim that the contrast seemed a bit high? No one was disagreeing with that.
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Old Today, 08:41 AM   #404
DaveyJoe DaveyJoe is online now
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Okay so I did some tinkering because I thought it'd be interesting to see what kind of colors we could pull out of the old master. So what you're going to see is side by comparisons of the old transfer with higher saturation and reduced red levels next to untouched caps of the new transfer.

Old transfer, higher saturation, reduced reds:

New transfer untouched:


Old transfer, higher saturation, reduced reds:

New transfer untouched:


Old transfer, higher saturation, reduced reds:

New transfer untouched:


You can see that in each instance those blue tones exist in the old master, they're just overwhelmed by the magenta push of the old scan. Even with my editing software I struggled to completely eliminate the pinkish hue of the old caps.

The newer caps show a better balance of colors overall and skintones look much more natural than even my tinkered caps from the old scan.

Just for fun, here are the vectorscope images from the hallway scene:

Old transfer untouched:

Old transfer vectorscope:

New transfer untouched:

New transfer vectorscope:


The old master has a very low saturation level, all of the colors are locked in the center except for the red levels which are bursting into oversaturation. The new transfer has a more balanced color palette.

Finally, look at this close-up of the skintones of the old transfer:

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Old Today, 08:46 AM   #405
DaveyJoe DaveyJoe is online now
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And I could have easily pushed all colors cyan but I didn't have to because just by lowering red levels I got the old caps to look surprisingly close to the newer transfer.
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