Best Blu-ray Movie Deals


Best Blu-ray Movie Deals, See All the Deals »
Top deals | New deals  
 All countries United States United Kingdom Canada Germany France Spain Italy Australia Netherlands Japan Mexico
My Fair Lady 4K (Blu-ray)
$22.96
12 hrs ago
Django 4K + Texas, Adios (Blu-ray)
$42.99
20 hrs ago
News of the World 4K (Blu-ray)
$29.99
20 hrs ago
Big Fish 4K (Blu-ray)
$22.50
 
Monster Hunter 4K (Blu-ray)
$24.96
 
Rick and Morty: The Complete Seasons 1-4 (Blu-ray)
$63.50
 
Masterpiece: All Creatures Great and Small (Blu-ray)
$34.16
15 hrs ago
Crazy Samurai: 400 vs. 1 (Blu-ray)
$14.96
17 hrs ago
Black Clover: Season 1 and 2 Complete (Blu-ray)
$149.99
 
Hammer Films: The Ultimate Collection (Blu-ray)
$45.99
 
John Wick: Chapters 1-3 4K (Blu-ray)
$25.60
 
Gladiator 4K (Blu-ray)
$19.99
 
What's your next favorite movie?
Join our movie community to find out


Image from: Life of Pi (2012)

Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Pre/Pro, Amplifiers and Separate Systems

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-30-2017, 10:06 PM   #21
Dwayne Dwayne is offline
Expert Member
 
Dwayne's Avatar
 
Oct 2008
Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
Who did you mean by "he" when you mentioned the Monitor 60s?

I appreciate your feedback regarding your personal feelings about amps versus receivers.
The Onkyo 818 with the Emotiva XPA 3 and the RTi12s belonged to a friend of mine.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2017, 10:35 PM   #22
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
Banned
 
May 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwayne View Post
The Onkyo 818 with the Emotiva XPA 3 and the RTi12s belonged to a friend of mine.
Oh -- I probably missed that. Sorry.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2017, 05:23 AM   #23
callas01 callas01 is offline
Blu-ray Prince
 
callas01's Avatar
 
Jun 2008
Riverside, CA
39
230
47
Default

First I want to say that I am not advocating against the purchase of an amp. There are benefits of adding external amplification. I use my integrated amps HT bypass feature to power my speakers during movies and tv programs, because it's amplifier section powers my speakers better then the Marantz can. I use the IAs preamp & amp when listening to music; about 60% of the time. My integrated performs much better with my speakers then the Marantz on its own.

I have tried using the Marantz without the Naim connected and the bass response is OK, but not as deep and powerful. Also the preamp section of the Naim unit sounds better to me with music. I use the Marantz to power the center channel and surrounds, I do not use an amp for them.

IME better designed amps will give you better grip on the woofers and the bass frequencies should feel stronger and more controlled, and that'll help clean up the mid-range, compared to an amp that doesn't have control as well and it can sound a little smeared or muddy. Also if the weaker amp strains and runs outta power, the highs can sound bright/shrill.

My points above were just that you don't have to buy an amp if receiver is capable of playing loud enough to satisfy without distortion or loss of headroom. And that watts do not determine bass response. A discernible difference can be had with any level of wattage, it's just, how much headroom do you need?

I've owned an Integra and the Marantz. The Integra (Onkyo) had a thinner sound but more dynamic top-end. The Marantz has a thicker sound with more grunt, but not as dynamic top-end. Personally a good AVR should be fine powering the center and surrounds on its own. I'd say focus primarily on your main speakers or at most the front 3. I find the Marantz did great on its own with the center and surrounds.
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
DangeRuss (02-26-2017), Dwayne (01-31-2017)
Old 01-31-2017, 07:56 PM   #24
Dwayne Dwayne is offline
Expert Member
 
Dwayne's Avatar
 
Oct 2008
Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
First I want to say that I am not advocating against the purchase of an amp. There are benefits of adding external amplification. I use my integrated amps HT bypass feature to power my speakers during movies and tv programs, because it's amplifier section powers my speakers better then the Marantz can. I use the IAs preamp & amp when listening to music; about 60% of the time. My integrated performs much better with my speakers then the Marantz on its own.

I have tried using the Marantz without the Naim connected and the bass response is OK, but not as deep and powerful. Also the preamp section of the Naim unit sounds better to me with music. I use the Marantz to power the center channel and surrounds, I do not use an amp for them.

IME better designed amps will give you better grip on the woofers and the bass frequencies should feel stronger and more controlled, and that'll help clean up the mid-range, compared to an amp that doesn't have control as well and it can sound a little smeared or muddy. Also if the weaker amp strains and runs outta power, the highs can sound bright/shrill.

My points above were just that you don't have to buy an amp if receiver is capable of playing loud enough to satisfy without distortion or loss of headroom. And that watts do not determine bass response. A discernible difference can be had with any level of wattage, it's just, how much headroom do you need?

I've owned an Integra and the Marantz. The Integra (Onkyo) had a thinner sound but more dynamic top-end. The Marantz has a thicker sound with more grunt, but not as dynamic top-end. Personally a good AVR should be fine powering the center and surrounds on its own. I'd say focus primarily on your main speakers or at most the front 3. I find the Marantz did great on its own with the center and surrounds.
With my Denon 4520 pushing my Polk RTi12s the woofers,mids,and highs sound great with Blu-ray movies and BD music with the volume cranked to -45db, but the Denon has no more headroom without making the audio sound harsh. When listening to music on spotify, CDs the midrange, and highs sound very weak, even with SACDs. I understand everything you have explained and now I know what to do for my set up. Once again THANKS for your input on this topic, very helpfull.
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
callas01 (01-31-2017)
Old 02-01-2017, 02:40 AM   #25
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
Banned
 
May 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
My points above were just that you don't have to buy an amp if receiver is capable of playing loud enough to satisfy without distortion or loss of headroom. And that watts do not determine bass response. A discernible difference can be had with any level of wattage, it's just, how much headroom do you need?
And I totally acknowledged the fact that my system is in fact playing loudly enough for most (if not all) circumstances with no strain, distortion or signs of clipping; and I suppose you're correct about the whole "how much headroom do you need" argument, though part of why I want to try external amplification is to have that reserve power on tap IF we ever want to REALLY, really crank it up...I don't want to ever get near the Onkyo AVR's volume range limits.

This is precisely why I asked about wattage and what would be "needed" to discern an audible, forceful difference from the power my AVR is pushing now -- in other words, it's somewhat common knowledge in audiophile circles that doubling power output on paper doesn't mean you're getting "twice the loudness" (i.e., 100 watts isn't going to sound "tremendously" bigger than 50 watts)...so, in my case, if I wanted to REALLY "upstage" the "90 watts-per-channel" of my AVR, what kind of power would I need to be looking at when spec'ing out power amps? 250 watts-per-channel? 300? More?

Quote:
I've owned an Integra and the Marantz. The Integra (Onkyo) had a thinner sound but more dynamic top-end. The Marantz has a thicker sound with more grunt, but not as dynamic top-end. Personally a good AVR should be fine powering the center and surrounds on its own. I'd say focus primarily on your main speakers or at most the front 3. I find the Marantz did great on its own with the center and surrounds.
Now we're getting somewhere with regard to my initial query about "the best way to go about" configuring external amplification, LOL...

Thank you for providing your experiences with the different configurations; indeed, my preference runs towards a new AVR (with preouts) and letting it power the surrounds (and maybe center) with a muscle amp doing the front channels (the RTi12s, which was my primary concern cause they're so beefy in terms of what they can handle) -- however, wouldn't something seem "off" if the receiver was powering the center (which is a vitally important channel in surround) with a big amp doing the mains? Wouldn't it make for a more cohesive front stage for all three speakers to be powered by the same source?

Thanks for your continued assistance with the discussion; it's appreciated.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2017, 05:49 AM   #26
callas01 callas01 is offline
Blu-ray Prince
 
callas01's Avatar
 
Jun 2008
Riverside, CA
39
230
47
Default

It really depends what you consider a discernible difference. Ive seen lots of people spend a lot of money and think that a considerable difference is 5-10% improvement. With an amp or not, 85 dbs will still sound like 85 dbs. If your AVR can get you to 102 dbs, say an amp with an extra 210 watts, can get you to roughly 108 dbs if fully pushed.

I think the biggest advantage is the control and power that an external amp can have over the speakers. Tighter more punchy bass, cleaner mids, less shrill highs, added depth (more noticeable for music). Will you notice the difference, yes, you will.

Now idk about the new G3 from Emotiva but I know on the older models people complained about the XPA-3 being noisy, and preferred the XPA-2. There's also parasound that makes the 2125 or A23. I've heard the 2125 with the 2100 preamp and some Dali towers (Ikon 7 & Concept 8) and its sounded great. There outlaw audios mini monoblock that have 200 watts. Never heard them but a pair is less expensive then the others, and you can add as you go thanks to their slim profiles. And the NAD C275BEE very stable amp.

What receiver are you planning to go to? I believe an Onkyo you would have to get into the 800 series to get preouts. (I know cause I'm shopping receivers also). I shop on accessories for less cause I refuse to pay full price for technology that changes constantly. I believe I'm going to go with either the Denon X3300W/X3200W or Marantz 5010.

Last edited by callas01; 02-03-2017 at 01:30 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
DangeRuss (02-27-2017)
Old 02-03-2017, 07:55 PM   #27
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
Banned
 
May 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
It really depends what you consider a discernible difference. Ive seen lots of people spend a lot of money and think that a considerable difference is 5-10% improvement. With an amp or not, 85 dbs will still sound like 85 dbs. If your AVR can get you to 102 dbs, say an amp with an extra 210 watts, can get you to roughly 108 dbs if fully pushed.

I think the biggest advantage is the control and power that an external amp can have over the speakers. Tighter more punchy bass, cleaner mids, less shrill highs, added depth (more noticeable for music). Will you notice the difference, yes, you will.

Now idk about the new G3 from Emotiva but I know on the older models people complained about the XPA-3 being noisy, and preferred the XPA-2. There's also parasound that makes the 2125 or A23. I've heard the 2125 with the 2100 preamp and some Dali towers (Ikon 7 & Concept 8) and its sounded great. There outlaw audios mini monoblock that have 200 watts. Never heard them but a pair is less expensive then the others, and you can add as you go thanks to their slim profiles. And the NAD C275BEE very stable amp.

What receiver are you planning to go to? I believe an Onkyo you would have to get into the 800 series to get preouts. (I know cause I'm shopping receivers also). I shop on accessories for less cause I refuse to pay full price for technology that changes constantly. I believe I'm going to go with either the Denon X3300W/X3200W or Marantz 5010.
I'm going to respond to the remainder of your post as soon as I have more spare time, but for now I wanted to respond to your query regarding the receiver -- I think in Onkyo's lineup, the preout-equipped models begin in the 700 range...
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2017, 10:12 PM   #28
callas01 callas01 is offline
Blu-ray Prince
 
callas01's Avatar
 
Jun 2008
Riverside, CA
39
230
47
Default

The last 2 receivers in the 700 series (747 & current RZ710) do not have preouts to connect an amp. I use to own an Integra 40.2 and it had preouts, that receiver was the same as the 708, which also had preouts.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2017, 09:06 PM   #29
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
Banned
 
May 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
The last 2 receivers in the 700 series (747 & current RZ710) do not have preouts to connect an amp. I use to own an Integra 40.2 and it had preouts, that receiver was the same as the 708, which also had preouts.
Okay, so their implementation of providing a receiver with preouts beginning with the 700-series must have ended around the time of the 708...

I know that the company's 700-series AVRs used to be the place you wanted to start shopping if you needed a unit with preouts.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2017, 11:29 PM   #30
Dwayne Dwayne is offline
Expert Member
 
Dwayne's Avatar
 
Oct 2008
Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
I'm going to respond to the remainder of your post as soon as I have more spare time, but for now I wanted to respond to your query regarding the receiver -- I think in Onkyo's lineup, the preout-equipped models begin in the 700 range...
It's an older unit but my Onkyo TX NR 709 and 809 have pre-outs.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2017, 01:49 AM   #31
callas01 callas01 is offline
Blu-ray Prince
 
callas01's Avatar
 
Jun 2008
Riverside, CA
39
230
47
Default

717 is the last 700 series receiver that had preouts from what I've been able to find. I also don't like that Onkyo got rid of Audyssey.

Like I said I will go with either Denon or Marantz.

Or if I can get the Anthem 520. I don't care about anything more then 5.1

Dwayne if you do a lot of music listening consider something like an integrated amp with a HT bypass. IMO the preamps sound better and even with lower wattage numbers their performance is so much better. However if you feel the Denons preamp sounds fine... Then just add a power amp.

Intellivolume have you considered which amps you're considering?
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
Dwayne (02-08-2017)
Old 02-06-2017, 05:53 PM   #32
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
Banned
 
May 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwayne View Post
It's an older unit but my Onkyo TX NR 709 and 809 have pre-outs.
Yes; the 700-series would have been the first to boast preouts, making it redundant that the 809 would have 'em.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2017, 05:54 PM   #33
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
Banned
 
May 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by callas01 View Post

Intellivolume have you considered which amps you're considering?
Not yet; I have come here for that kind of advice.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2017, 03:14 AM   #34
callas01 callas01 is offline
Blu-ray Prince
 
callas01's Avatar
 
Jun 2008
Riverside, CA
39
230
47
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
Not yet; I have come here for that kind of advice.
To answer that question directly; I would focus on the front 2 L/R speakers first! And when you upgrade get a receiver with a large enough and well built power supply/ amp section for the rest of the speakers.

Emotiva XPA-2, Parasound A23, Outlaw Mini Mono 2200x2, NAD275BEE.

I think they're all good units. John Curl of parasound is a very well know and respected designer and they sound good. The XPA-2 with its new power rail switching sounds cool. NAD is solid, soft clipping protects the speakers (if you ever need it). And I like the low profile outlaw amps; easy to add a 3rd if you ever want to do so and they're not really that pricey individually.
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
IntelliVolume (02-11-2017)
Old 02-08-2017, 09:49 PM   #35
Dwayne Dwayne is offline
Expert Member
 
Dwayne's Avatar
 
Oct 2008
Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
717 is the last 700 series receiver that had preouts from what I've been able to find. I also don't like that Onkyo got rid of Audyssey.

Like I said I will go with either Denon or Marantz.

Or if I can get the Anthem 520. I don't care about anything more then 5.1

Dwayne if you do a lot of music listening consider something like an integrated amp with a HT bypass. IMO the preamps sound better and even with lower wattage numbers their performance is so much better. However if you feel the Denons preamp sounds fine... Then just add a power amp.

Intellivolume have you considered which amps you're considering?
I'm with you on Onkyo letting go of Audyssey. I do listen to music, almost everyday. My goal is to purchase an integrated amp for my 2-channel music listening in another room, however my wallet will only allow me to purchase a new TV, which I need, and then the external 5-channel power amp, which I do not need, I just want. Seriously considering the Outlaw model 5000 mainly because of the reviews and of course the price. I will not be happy until I can completely do away with the amps in the Denon. Good luck on your choice between Marantz,Denon,or Anthem. Once again thanks for all of your input regarding this topic.

Last edited by Dwayne; 02-08-2017 at 10:07 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 07:26 PM   #36
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
Banned
 
May 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
To answer that question directly; I would focus on the front 2 L/R speakers first! And when you upgrade get a receiver with a large enough and well built power supply/ amp section for the rest of the speakers.

Emotiva XPA-2, Parasound A23, Outlaw Mini Mono 2200x2, NAD275BEE.

I think they're all good units. John Curl of parasound is a very well know and respected designer and they sound good. The XPA-2 with its new power rail switching sounds cool. NAD is solid, soft clipping protects the speakers (if you ever need it). And I like the low profile outlaw amps; easy to add a 3rd if you ever want to do so and they're not really that pricey individually.
Thank you for the direct answer here; it's more in line with what I was looking for!

Let me ask you this, based on your suggestions: If I did get just a stereo amp to feed the main left/right speakers first, would this not sound "off" with, say, a receiver powering the center and surrounds? I mean, with regard to the CENTER in particular, wouldn't this crucial channel in a multichannel setup seem "disproportioned" compared to the left/right mains that would be getting significantly more power?

As for the amps: Do you have any feelings on the whole pro versus consumer debacle? I've heard from many people who claim modern pro amps (including from manufacturers such as Crown and Peavey), while once designated for DJ/installation/concert use, have come a long way and are "significantly more powerful" than consumer amps like the Emotivas, Parasounds, NADs, etc.

Any thoughts?
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 07:34 PM   #37
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
Banned
 
May 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwayne View Post
I'm with you on Onkyo letting go of Audyssey. I do listen to music, almost everyday.
I never used the Audyssey 2EQ in my Onk 605, instead leaving the EQ completely off and setting my own delay, trim and crossover settings. Always sounded great to me, though I know there are many Onkyo fans who are upset with the company's decision to go from Audyssey to its proprietary AccuEQ system.

Quote:
My goal is to purchase an integrated amp for my 2-channel music listening in another room
That's precisely what I did when we moved into our new house we're in now (though I purchased a stereo receiver, even though I wanted Onkyo's gorgeous A-9555 integrated amp that was out at the time but out of our budget; the TX-8555 stereo receiver has been fantastic though and has a tuner to boot!) -- because we had an upstairs loft area to dedicate to a separate two-channel system, I was able to separate my music listening from the surround duties of the 5.1 setup.

Quote:
however my wallet will only allow me to purchase a new TV, which I need, and then the external 5-channel power amp, which I do not need, I just want.
I know what you mean, exactly -- and there never seems to be enough money, EVER, for ANYTHING. I WANT a new subwoofer (been running the same Polk PSW350 since the days of my first surround system) but cannot afford the SVS I'm lusting after. I WANT, like you, an external power amp, or amps, but don't necessarily NEED them because our AVR is just fine as-is, quite honestly. We may NEED a new TV depending on what happens with our current 1080p rear projection display and if it continues soldiering on or not, and that's gonna put a massive dent in the wallet.

Quote:
Seriously considering the Outlaw model 5000 mainly because of the reviews and of course the price. I will not be happy until I can completely do away with the amps in the Denon.
Are you that unhappy with the amplification in the Denon?
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 09:44 PM   #38
Dwayne Dwayne is offline
Expert Member
 
Dwayne's Avatar
 
Oct 2008
Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex
1
Default

I'm happy with amp section of my Denon. Curiosity is the main reason I want to add an external amp, that's it. I too wanted an SVS sub, but cost was too much. I recently purchased an Acoustech PL 200 sub for $329.00 online and could not be happier. This 12" front firing sub has a 1000 watt BASH amp that HSU himself helped design. This sub is a beast, and very serious performer. It works well with the RTi 12s. Please research this sub when ready to purchase another, I highly recommend it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 09:49 PM   #39
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
Banned
 
May 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwayne View Post
I'm happy with amp section of my Denon. Curiosity is the main reason I want to add an external amp, that's it. I too wanted an SVS sub, but cost was too much. I recently purchased an Acoustech PL 200 sub for $329.00 online and could not be happier. This 12" front firing sub has a 1000 watt BASH amp that HSU himself helped design. This sub is a beast, and very serious performer. It works well with the RTi 12s. Please research this sub when ready to purchase another, I highly recommend it.
Wow -- $329 for a 12-inch driver with 1,000 watts behind it!?

Why are these so affordable?
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 10:18 PM   #40
Dwayne Dwayne is offline
Expert Member
 
Dwayne's Avatar
 
Oct 2008
Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
Wow -- $329 for a 12-inch driver with 1,000 watts behind it!?

Why are these so affordable?
I thought the price was a mistake myself. They have been making these subs for a few years now and the MFSRP is $650.00 and $700.00. This is the Flagship model for Acoustech and to date, they have yet to upgrade it. This sub alone changed the way my entire sound stage was. I use the Acoustech up front with the RTi 12s, and my old Polk PSW 110 behind the sweet spot. I had no idea how much a great sub would change things, but this one sure did.
  Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Pre/Pro, Amplifiers and Separate Systems


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:49 PM.