Not Sure if This is the Correct Place in the Forum, But...How Would YOU Go About This

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by Dwayne

I thought the price was a mistake myself. They have been making these subs for a few years now and the MFSRP is $650.00 and $700.00. This is the Flagship model for Acoustech and to date, they have yet to upgrade it. This sub alone changed the way my entire sound stage was. behind the sweet spot. I had no idea how much a great sub would change things, but this one sure did.

Wow; but if the MSRPs have been $650/700, how did you snag one for what you did?

This sub packs a wallop with your RTi12s? I ask because I have the same speakers, of course...

[Dwayne]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Wow; but if the MSRPs have been $650/700, how did you snag one for what you did?

This sub packs a wallop with your RTi12s? I ask because I have the same speakers, of course...

I got mine at "acousticsounddesign" online, they are an authorized dealer. I researched this sub for 2 months and during that entire time the price stayed at $329.00. Amazon just last week had one left, brand new for $249.00, no joke! There are a few more authorized dealers out there online that sell them for the same price. My guess as to why they are so affordable is there are obviously warehouses full of them, and of course the name BIC scared people away. If Hsu himself helped design this Platinum series Flagship sub, well that says a lot. These have been around a few years but they pack almost all of the must have features the expensive subs have. The reviews on this sub are amazing, as well as the performance. Now there is something else you can put on your WANT list. LOL!!!

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by Dwayne

I got mine at "acousticsounddesign" online, they are an authorized dealer. I researched this sub for 2 months and during that entire time the price stayed at $329.00. Amazon just last week had one left, brand new for $249.00, no joke! There are a few more authorized dealers out there online that sell them for the same price. My guess as to why they are so affordable is there are obviously warehouses full of them, and of course the name BIC scared people away. If Hsu himself helped design this Platinum series Flagship sub, well that says a lot. These have been around a few years but they pack almost all of the must have features the expensive subs have. The reviews on this sub are amazing, as well as the performance. Now there is something else you can put on your WANT list. LOL!!!

Gee...thanks a LOT!

Does this thing really shake your room with the RTi12s, and what do you have them crossed over at? I cross my RTi12s over at 60Hz, so they can still flex some of their bass muscle...

[Dwayne]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Gee...thanks a LOT!

Does this thing really shake your room with the RTi12s, and what do you have them crossed over at? I cross my RTi12s over at 60Hz, so they can still flex some of their bass muscle...

Unless I'm missing something here, why would the BIC scare people away -- you mean because they would liken the abbreviation to the lighter company?

I have mine crossed at 60hz as well. Shakes the room is an understatement, however it does so without distortion, and is very subtle even with the gain set at about 10:30. I can even cross my RTis to 80hz since this arrived and still get a decent amount of ooomph from the Polks. I have known a few people with BIC subs and they all said they were junk. IMHO I always considered BIC to be the entry level, lower wattage subs that was very affordable, but that's just me. I do know that BIC is certainly the last name you would think of for a sub that is capable of performing with some of the mid-level and yes even some high-end range subs out there. We have kind of gotten off topic here in relations to external power amps/AVRs, but have enjoyed very much about telling you about an incredible sub that performs at a high-end level.

[callas01]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Thank you for the direct answer here; it's more in line with what I was looking for!

Let me ask you this, based on your suggestions: If I did get just a stereo amp to feed the main left/right speakers first, would this not sound "off" with, say, a receiver powering the center and surrounds? I mean, with regard to the CENTER in particular, wouldn't this crucial channel in a multichannel setup seem "disproportioned" compared to the left/right mains that would be getting significantly more power?

As for the amps: Do you have any feelings on the whole pro versus consumer debacle? I've heard from many people who claim modern pro amps (including from manufacturers such as Crown and Peavey), while once designated for DJ/installation/concert use, have come a long way and are "significantly more powerful" than consumer amps like the Emotivas, Parasounds, NADs, etc.

Any thoughts?

When you level match the speakers either using Audyssey or an spl meter they sound the same at a given volume level. If you isolate the R/L and then listen to them with an amp and then without, provided they're level matched with an spl meter they'll sound still just as loud either way, but you will just feel like there's more control and power to the woofers. During a peak, music or movie, the amp with provide more headroom, which may give you a couple extra dbs in volume but in a surround sound mode, I really don't think you will notice it as much because there's so many speakers playing at once.

IMO class d (most pro amps are class d) amps are fine to use for HT. With music there are definitely differences. I've heard several class d amps with music and they always sound more closed in and not as rich and airy. Audio Research DSi400, Naim XS, and Audio Research 75 tube amp and the differences were noticeable between the 75 and XS v the DSi400.

So in short, crown would be fine in multi-ch systems.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by callas01

When you level match the speakers either using Audyssey or an spl meter they sound the same at a given volume level. If you isolate the R/L and then listen to them with an amp and then without, provided they're level matched with an spl meter they'll sound still just as loud either way, but you will just feel like there's more control and power to the woofers. During a peak, music or movie, the amp with provide more headroom, which may give you a couple extra dbs in volume but in a surround sound mode, I really don't think you will notice it as much because there's so many speakers playing at once.

Got-cha; thanks.

IMO class d (most pro amps are class d) amps are fine to use for HT. With music there are definitely differences. I've heard several class d amps with music and they always sound more closed in and not as rich and airy. Audio Research DSi400, Naim XS, and Audio Research 75 tube amp and the differences were noticeable between the 75 and XS v the DSi400.

So in short, crown would be fine in multi-ch systems.

Thanks for your insight here; now I have to figure out which way I want to go...powering the RTi12s or powering the front three channels in the forward soundstage (leaving a new AVR to power the rest) -- and if I want to go with consumer gear (Emotiva, et al) or pro amplification...

[DangeRuss]

I can't wait to see how this saga turns out ...........

[DangeRuss]

Originally Posted by Dwayne

I'm happy with amp section of my Denon. Curiosity is the main reason I want to add an external amp, that's it. I too wanted an SVS sub, but cost was too much. I recently purchased an Acoustech PL 200 sub for $329.00 online and could not be happier. This 12" front firing sub has a 1000 watt BASH amp that HSU himself helped design. This sub is a beast, and very serious performer. It works well with the RTi 12s. Please research this sub when ready to purchase another, I highly recommend it.

Actually ........................

The BIC Acoustech PL 200 is a front firing ported 12" sub with a 250 watt RMS amp. The stated 1000 watts refers to an instantaneous peak and I think that number is fudged a little . Most plate amps rarely even double their output for a given peak.

Even so ............... I have recommended that sub to several people and they have been quite satisfied with it

For a little more money this can be had and it's an absolute steal

https://www.amazon.com/SVS-SB12-NSD-...s=svs+pb12-nsd

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by DangeRuss

I can't wait to see how this saga turns out ...........

Why? What makes it a "saga"?

[DangeRuss]

Originally Posted by FreddieFerric

You need 1kw or nothing at all.

...........................

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Why? What makes it a "saga"?

In this hobby of ours .................... Everyone's journey towards sonic euphoria is a saga

But I'm kinda curious with all of your talk about external amplification .......Do you presently own a SPL meter ?

[DangeRuss]

And here's some food for thought ............


A sound pressure increase of approximately 10 dB is considered as a doubling of the volume.

A doubling of the listening distance from a loudspeaker gives a reduction of sound pressure by 6 dB. In practice, that is in a room with hard walls, the sound pressure reduction is less. A doubling of the number of loudspeakers is an increase of sound pressure by 3 dB.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by DangeRuss

...........................

I'm sure he was being sarcastic.

But I'm kinda curious with all of your talk about external amplification .......Do you presently own a SPL meter ?

"All my talk"? I asked a question in a surround enthusiast hobby forum. I am genuinely curious as to how much more rated power I'd have to be looking at if I were to go from what I'm using now to an external amp.

[DangeRuss]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

I'm sure he was being sarcastic.

Indeed he was ............... We tend to take things lightly around here

[Show spoiler]Although at one point he had 1kW of power (500 per channel) superchargers feeding his Maggies

"All my talk"? I asked a question in a surround enthusiast hobby forum. I am genuinely curious as to how much more rated power I'd have to be looking at if I were to go from what I'm using now to an external amp.

I don't mean to offend

But you did put forth several different scenarios to deliver more power to your system.

So do you own a SPL meter ? I'm curious as what type of volume you're trying to obtain.And bare in mind when it comes to AVR's they rarely if ever are able to deliver their rated power while driving multiple speakers in a home theater environment. So even a 100 wpc power amp will give you a boost over what you are presently hearing due to its ability provide more current

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by DangeRuss

Indeed he was ............... We tend to take things lightly around here

[Show spoiler]Although at one point he had 1kW of power (500 per channel) superchargers feeding his Maggies

I don't mean to offend

Sorry; that's how it came across to me when you stated "With all your talk..."

But you did put forth several different scenarios to deliver more power to your system.

Yes...and my point was that I wanted input regarding the best way to go about getting some more power into that system, from those who have experience doing so.

So do you own a SPL meter ? I'm curious as what type of volume you're trying to obtain.

I had a RatShack meter that I lent someone and never saw again; regardless, I am uncertain EXACTLY what kind of volume I'm trying to obtain -- as I stated several times, my current receiver is actually doing just fine, and gets our system wailing to the point my wife usually asks me to turn it down (during heavy action sequences in certain films) with no distortion, clipping or signs of strain. This, of course, answers my question on the surface, and I understand that (our current receiver provides enough power for our needs) -- but IF I WANTED TO EXPERIMENT with feeding at least my front stage (because it's anchored by the power-ready Polk RTi12s) with more power, I would like to know what kind of amp or amps I should be looking at.

And bare in mind when it comes to AVR's they rarely if ever are able to deliver their rated power while driving multiple speakers in a home theater environment. So even a 100 wpc power amp will give you a boost over what you are presently hearing due to its ability provide more current

Now THIS is getting closer to what I have been asking...why couldn't we just start with that!?

I totally understand the notion that typical AVRs don't put out their rated power -- that's why I always put quotations around my references to RATED. However, our current AVR is seemingly producing plenty of juice for our needs, room and space, regardless of what it's actually putting out (and I'm not kidding)...I just wanted to know what I should be looking at if I want to EXPERIMENT with adding power to at least my front soundstage (specifically the RTi12s), and you started to touch on that...

Being that my RTi12 mains can handle a maximum of 500 watts IIRC, should I be looking at an amp more powerful than a 100-watt-per-channel model (even though an external amp would most likely be putting out more than my AVR is through the front)?

My basic plan seems to be floating around this idea:

Buying a new AVR with preouts and using its internal amps to power the surrounds while juicing up the front stage (center and mains) with a muscle power amp...does that sound viable?

[DangeRuss]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Sorry; that's how it came across to me when you stated "With all your talk..."

Not a problem kid ....................

Yes...and my point was that I wanted input regarding the best way to go about getting some more power into that system, from those who have experience doing so.

Are you aware, that you can add a power amp even if your AVR doesn't have pre outs ? Check out this thread ................

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=162573

I had a RatShack meter that I lent someone and never saw again; regardless, I am uncertain EXACTLY what kind of volume I'm trying to obtain -- as I stated several times, my current receiver is actually doing just fine, and gets our system wailing to the point my wife usually asks me to turn it down (during heavy action sequences in certain films) with no distortion, clipping or signs of strain. This, of course, answers my question on the surface, and I understand that (our current receiver provides enough power for our needs) -- but IF I WANTED TO EXPERIMENT with feeding at least my front stage (because it's anchored by the power-ready Polk RTi12s) with more power, I would like to know what kind of amp or amps I should be looking at.

You should really look into getting your meter back or replacing it ........ They are a valuable tool in calibrating and maintaining you system. And makes it easier to convey info as far as volume and dynamics are concerned.

And do you want to add the power to the front sound stage just for stereo music enjoyment or for the home theater modes as well ....... Because as you know once adding the power you will still balance all of your speakers to the same volume level (dB) to get the proper surround effect. Also if your receiver is handling bass management most of your low frequency info is going to your subs and not being handled by your fronts. Plus the most important speaker when listening to movies is the center channel anyway.

Most people add power amps to their setups to take the load off of their heavily taxed AVR's and to add more headroom while playing movies.

Now THIS is getting closer to what I have been asking...why couldn't we just start with that!?

I guess because the question was rather vague and personally ......... I STILL don't really have a grasp on what you hope to achieve

I totally understand the notion that typical AVRs don't put out their rated power -- that's why I always put quotations around my references to RATED. However, our current AVR is seemingly producing plenty of juice for our needs, room and space, regardless of what it's actually putting out (and I'm not kidding)...I just wanted to know what I should be looking at if I want to EXPERIMENT with adding power to at least my front soundstage (specifically the RTi12s), and you started to touch on that...

Being that my RTi12 mains can handle a maximum of 500 watts IIRC, should I be looking at an amp more powerful than a 100-watt-per-channel model (even though an external amp would most likely be putting out more than my AVR is through the front)?

Don't take speaker ratings too seriously ............. sure they very well may be able to take an instantaneous burst to those levels, I doubt they can take that for any sustained period of time. Besides the volume levels at that power would cause some serious hearing damage

My basic plan seems to be floating around this idea:

Buying a new AVR with preouts and using its internal amps to power the surrounds while juicing up the front stage (center and mains) with a muscle power amp...does that sound viable?

I think that plan can work and often times it does quite well. But I think you would be better served using a power amp or combination of power amps that'll feed all of your speakers with the same power (gain) to keep things in balance

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by DangeRuss

Not a problem kid ....................

"Kid"?

Are you aware, that you can add a power amp even if your AVR doesn't have pre outs ? Check out this thread ................

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=162573

Yes -- I'm well aware of adding the speaker-level-to-preamp-level adapters (I used this method with car audio systems in the past where I needed to feed power amps with a signal from the factory radio in order to push subs) and have even discussed it as a thread starter countless times in forums such as this. However, the conclusion seemed to be that these devices cause more harm than good, introduce noise into the system and just don't yield what one would be after with a clean preamp signal anyway...so I decided against them.

What are your thoughts on these? Have you used them before?

You should really look into getting your meter back or replacing it ........ They are a valuable tool in calibrating and maintaining you system. And makes it easier to convey info as far as volume and dynamics are concerned.

I'm fine for now with regard to channel level balance, crossover and overall soundscape cohesiveness, honest; the system is balanced nicely and even with a center channel that doesn't match the two front mains in terms of EXACT speaker family characteristics (I'm running a Polk CSi30 as a center, which is from an older family of "RT" speakers than the RTi12s are from), my front stage exudes a nearly seamless sonic signature.

And do you want to add the power to the front sound stage just for stereo music enjoyment or for the home theater modes as well

I have a dedicated two-channel system separate from this setup, so this system is only being used for film playback (surround) duties.

Because as you know once adding the power you will still balance all of your speakers to the same volume level (dB) to get the proper surround effect. Also if your receiver is handling bass management most of your low frequency info is going to your subs and not being handled by your fronts. Plus the most important speaker when listening to movies is the center channel anyway.

I understand that the center is the most crucial speaker in a surround setup -- hence why I was toying with the idea of adding a three-channel power amp instead of a two-channel model. With regard to the sub being used, yes -- that is in fact what will be happening, as is happening now...that my AVR is crossed over at 60Hz for the RTi12s (and 80Hz for the rest) with the sub taking care of the rest. Are you saying that adding a power amp will be a "waste" if the low bass is just going to go to the sub anyway? I have to imagine overall dynamics, punch and headroom would improve even through the RTi12 fronts crossed over at 60Hz...

Most people add power amps to their setups to take the load off of their heavily taxed AVR's and to add more headroom while playing movies.

That's what I want to do (especially the headroom part; just want to be sure I have gobs of reserve power if ever needed) -- well, let me put it another way: I'd like to give my RTi12s some more power to see if they'll "open up"...

I guess because the question was rather vague and personally ......... I STILL don't really have a grasp on what you hope to achieve

The question was "vague"?

Don't take speaker ratings too seriously ............. sure they very well may be able to take an instantaneous burst to those levels, I doubt they can take that for any sustained period of time. Besides the volume levels at that power would cause some serious hearing damage

Well, I didn't think I was going to need to shop for an amp that puts out 500 watts continuous ; but because these towers CAN accept such power at the high end, I wanted to feed them some more current than my AVR is doing now. I don't know how much more specific I can be about this.

I think that plan can work and often times it does quite well. But I think you would be better served using a power amp or combination of power amps that'll feed all of your speakers with the same power (gain) to keep things in balance

But wouldn't balancing them out in the calibration stage take care of the "evenness"?

[DangeRuss]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

"Kid"?

Where I'm from it's used as a term of endearment

Yes -- I'm well aware of adding the speaker-level-to-preamp-level adapters (I used this method with car audio systems in the past where I needed to feed power amps with a signal from the factory radio in order to push subs) and have even discussed it as a thread starter countless times in forums such as this. However, the conclusion seemed to be that these devices cause more harm than good, introduce noise into the system and just don't yield what one would be after with a clean preamp signal anyway...so I decided against them.

What are your thoughts on these? Have you used them before?

Personally ............... I never used that configuration as I've always owned units with pre-outs.

But another member here Billy13 (

[Show spoiler]https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=221287

) has done that with one of his systems and was quite happy with the results. You can always post that question to him.

I'm fine for now with regard to channel level balance, crossover and overall soundscape cohesiveness, honest; the system is balanced nicely and even with a center channel that doesn't match the two front mains in terms of EXACT speaker family characteristics (I'm running a Polk CSi30 as a center, which is from an older family of "RT" speakers than the RTi12s are from), my front stage exudes a nearly seamless sonic signature.

Well if it ain't broke ..................... ..............

[Show spoiler]I know ........... upgradeitis hits us all from time to time

I have a dedicated two-channel system separate from this setup, so this system is only being used for film playback (surround) duties.

I too have a dedicated stereo system in my place called the Stereophonic Parlor of Bliss . Feel free to check it out here ........ https://www.blu-ray.com/community/ga...&folderid=8956 . And although I have that room, I still play music on my main theater system due to it being in my living room and I often entertain company there.

.............. Why don't you start a gallery and post some photos of your various systems ...... It can come in handy when discussing upgrades and other info and besides we just love looking at gear

I understand that the center is the most crucial speaker in a surround setup -- hence why I was toying with the idea of adding a three-channel power amp instead of a two-channel model. With regard to the sub being used, yes -- that is in fact what will be happening, as is happening now...that my AVR is crossed over at 60Hz for the RTi12s (and 80Hz for the rest) with the sub taking care of the rest. Are you saying that adding a power amp will be a "waste" if the low bass is just going to go to the sub anyway? I have to imagine overall dynamics, punch and headroom would improve even through the RTi12 fronts crossed over at 60Hz...

Well ................... Since you are only using this system for movies and none of your speakers are running full range added to the fact that your system is now running satisfactory within its parameters (it would help to know what dB levels you listen at) ...... I guess a power amp could tighten up your mids and highs, but to what degree . You talk about making your towers sing but you are listening to a 5/7 channel presentation. The fronts are just front surrounds and give a sense of directional sonics ie. pans, off screen action, musical accompaniment etc.

I'm not trying to discourage you but think adding power to the complete system would give you the best overall benefit.

I remember when Dolby pro logic was the only surround sound to be had manufacturers produced AVR's with higher rated front channels than the rear surrounds. That all changed with the 5 channel and beyond discrete channels of Dolby digital, DTS and later codecs.

That's what I want to do (especially the headroom part; just want to be sure I have gobs of reserve power if ever needed) -- well, let me put it another way: I'd like to give my RTi12s some more power to see if they'll "open up"...

See .................. You are talking about opening up a set of speakers while you are listening to 5/7 .....

The question was "vague"?

Yep ..........................

Well, I didn't think I was going to need to shop for an amp that puts out 500 watts continuous ; but because these towers CAN accept such power at the high end, I wanted to feed them some more current than my AVR is doing now. I don't know how much more specific I can be about this.

Being your speakers have a rated sensitivity of 90 dB/w meter

Then I would think any power amplifier supplying anywhere from 100-200 wpc (only a 3 dB difference mind you) will suffice.

https://www.lifewire.com/stereo-amp-wattage-3135065

But wouldn't balancing them out in the calibration stage take care of the "evenness"?

Not really ................ because when you're using different amps their gains can be different, meaning one will output more power quicker than the other changing the speakers output balance.

Happy Listening ..........

And get those photos up

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by DangeRuss

Where I'm from it's used as a term of endearment

The Boogie Down Bronx, huh? I hail from Long Island myself...

Personally ............... I never used that configuration as I've always owned units with pre-outs.

But another member here Billy13 (

[Show spoiler]https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=221287

) has done that with one of his systems and was quite happy with the results. You can always post that question to him.

I'll look into that; thanks.

I too have a dedicated stereo system in my place called the Stereophonic Parlor of Bliss . Feel free to check it out here ........ https://www.blu-ray.com/community/ga...&folderid=8956 . And although I have that room, I still play music on my main theater system due to it being in my living room and I often entertain company there.

Music is played only from time to time in this room/system; it's really primarily for watching film.

Well ................... Since you are only using this system for movies and none of your speakers are running full range added to the fact that your system is now running satisfactory within its parameters (it would help to know what dB levels you listen at) ...... I guess a power amp could tighten up your mids and highs, but to what degree . You talk about making your towers sing but you are listening to a 5/7 channel presentation. The fronts are just front surrounds and give a sense of directional sonics ie. pans, off screen action, musical accompaniment etc.

I'm not trying to discourage you but think adding power to the complete system would give you the best overall benefit.

Indeed, much of this makes sense -- I do understand that the left and right mains are for off-screen support, score, directional movement across the soundstage/screen...there's no argument that the center channel is the workhorse of the whole system. Still, the reason I keep coming back to powering just the RTi12s with an outboard amp is because of their sheer capabilities -- I know and accept that 500 watts (or near it) do not have to be pumped into these things "just because" that's what they're "rated at" for maximum input, but because they can handle so much juice, I wanted to really let them "flex their muscles" so to speak with separate amplification...

That being said, there is something to be noted regarding your suggestion of an amp powering the entire system cohesively -- the thing is, I didn't really want to buy a nice new AVR with preouts and ignore some of its internal amp channels so I could hook up a multichannel receiver; that never made any sense to me, personally. Since the amp channels are already there in an AVR, they would appear to be perfect for powering surrounds or surrounds and a center...seems like a "waste" to completely bypass an AVR's amps altogether. At that point, why not look for a competent standalone pre/pro?

I remember when Dolby pro logic was the only surround sound to be had manufacturers produced AVR's with higher rated front channels than the rear surrounds. That all changed with the 5 channel and beyond discrete channels of Dolby digital, DTS and later codecs.

Interesting; I believe I recall that, as well...

Once the discrete digital soundtracks came along, AVRs suddenly switched to "90 watts per channel" (or whatever it was) times five, six, seven...

See .................. You are talking about opening up a set of speakers while you are listening to 5/7 .....

Yes, I understand your point -- again, please see above where I detail why I want to feed just those channels more power (or perhaps the front three channels)...though your argument for all-channel power increase makes sense too...

Yep ..........................

With all due respect, I really don't think it was.

Being your speakers have a rated sensitivity of 90 dB/w meter

Then I would think any power amplifier supplying anywhere from 100-200 wpc (only a 3 dB difference mind you) will suffice.

https://www.lifewire.com/stereo-amp-wattage-3135065

Would you look to pro amps like the Crowns or Behringers or would a consumer-grade (i.e. Emotiva) suffice?

Not really ................ because when you're using different amps their gains can be different, meaning one will output more power quicker than the other changing the speakers output balance.

Happy Listening ..........

I see...something to think about...

[DangeRuss]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

The Boogie Down Bronx, huh? I hail from Long Island myself...

And you're a Patriots fan ?

[Show spoiler]

Music is played only from time to time in this room/system; it's really primarily for watching film.

Have you seen my systems ?

What did you think ?

Indeed, much of this makes sense -- I do understand that the left and right mains are for off-screen support, score, directional movement across the soundstage/screen...there's no argument that the center channel is the workhorse of the whole system. Still, the reason I keep coming back to powering just the RTi12s with an outboard amp is because of their sheer capabilities -- I know and accept that 500 watts (or near it) do not have to be pumped into these things "just because" that's what they're "rated at" for maximum input, but because they can handle so much juice, I wanted to really let them "flex their muscles" so to speak with separate amplification...

That being said, there is something to be noted regarding your suggestion of an amp powering the entire system cohesively -- the thing is, I didn't really want to buy a nice new AVR with preouts and ignore some of its internal amp channels so I could hook up a multichannel receiver; that never made any sense to me, personally. Since the amp channels are already there in an AVR, they would appear to be perfect for powering surrounds or surrounds and a center...seems like a "waste" to completely bypass an AVR's amps altogether. At that point, why not look for a competent standalone pre/pro?

Yes ............... Now you get to what I've been alluding to this whole time

And that is .............. Your best bet for maximizing your speaker array is to go with a complete separate system consisting of a pre/pro and power amp, skipping the whole "new AVR" entirely.

Interesting; I believe I recall that, as well...

Once the discrete digital soundtracks came along, AVRs suddenly switched to "90 watts per channel" (or whatever it was) times five, six, seven...

And the science behind doing just that is well noted ......

Yes, I understand your point -- again, please see above where I detail why I want to feed just those channels more power (or perhaps the front three channels)...though your argument for all-channel power increase makes sense too...

That's the best way to keep a cohesive system and sound stage

Would you look to pro amps like the Crowns or Behringers or would a consumer-grade (i.e. Emotiva) suffice?

There are several members over at the Home Theater Gallery Threads https://forum.blu-ray.com/forumdisplay.php?f=77 who use them. But they do so primarily to power passive subwoofers. Most everyone uses your HT/Stereo consumer gear due to their architecture and other reasons.

And there are plenty of manufacturers to chose from besides Emotiva. Power amps by the likes of Outlaw, Monoprice and others are also well received and quite reasonable.

Yet if you decide to go the whole pre/pro route I'd opt for a power amp from the same manufacturer be it Marantz, Denon, NAD, Parasound etc. As they are generally engineered to work as a team.

I see...something to think about...

Yes indeed ..................

So the saga continues ........................

And don't forget to get those photos up

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by DangeRuss

And you're a Patriots fan ?

[Show spoiler]

Yes, always have been...from the days of Tony Eason and Steve Grogan. Always got shit about it from Jets and Giants fans, so I'm not unused to the criticism...

To me -- and you'll never get me to think otherwise -- the Jets and Giants aren't NEW YORK teams because they don't PLAY IN NEW YORK. If you want to get technical, the only true blue New York team there is would be the Bills...but then again, anyone as far south as the boroughs and the Island do not consider Buffalo "New Yawwwk," so...

Have you seen my systems ?

What did you think ?

What did that have to do with my question?

Yes ............... Now you get to what I've been alluding to this whole time

And that is .............. Your best bet for maximizing your speaker array is to go with a complete separate system consisting of a pre/pro and power amp, skipping the whole "new AVR" entirely.

Yes...but we never discussed the COST of such an array...indeed, the cost of a good pre pro, such as Onkyo's monstrous PR-RZ5100, is NOT cheap and one could get their foot in the door with a decent AVR with preouts for MUCH less. Further, as codecs and technology keeps evolving, the thought of paying three or four grand for a processor that might have to change as formats evolve doesn't thrill me...

There are several members over at the Home Theater Gallery Threads https://forum.blu-ray.com/forumdisplay.php?f=77 who use them. But they do so primarily to power passive subwoofers. Most everyone uses your HT/Stereo consumer gear due to their architecture and other reasons.

Okay; because I have seen many instances on forums such as these in which folks are using pro amps to drive their HT systems (are there many manufacturers even making passive subs today?) -- some swear by them and say they're not just for pro/PA/DJ use...

And there are plenty of manufacturers to chose from besides Emotiva. Power amps by the likes of Outlaw, Monoprice and others are also well received and quite reasonable.

Oh, yes, I know; I was just using Emotiva as the primary example because of its popularity round these parts.

What would you recommend as a GOOD, solid, MONTSER of a power amp that would provide gobs of headroom for a reasonable price?

I really like Onkyo's multichannel amps -- the current model being the PA-MC5501 -- but from what I can tell, these are merely the company's flagship AVRs without the processing internals...what do you make of their amp?

http://www.onkyousa.com/Products/mod...urce=prodClass

Yet if you decide to go the whole pre/pro route I'd opt for a power amp from the same manufacturer be it Marantz, Denon, NAD, Parasound etc. As they are generally engineered to work as a team.

Indeed; I'd love to put the Onkyo pieces together, but it's just not financially feasible...still, I keep going back to letting a good AVR do surround powering duty...