Please Stop Being Addicted To Emotiva!!!!

[AlabamaBoy]

Originally Posted by Intamin

Very well said! The lack of originallity, or the unwillingness to audition and listen to different speakers/amps/receivers is sort of disheartening when you figure how much money will be spent on these purchases and how long they are meant to last.

I would LOVE to audition different high end speakers/amps/etc. Good stereo and AV stores are few and far between nowadays. Sad.

[Driver_King]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

...For example, Chevrolet versus Mercedes Benz...

It's pronounced "Hyundai" like Sunday. I couldn't help myself.

[Jbald87]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

There is no doubt that Emotiva provides consumers with very good value. However, you can make the same argument for almost any product. For example, Chevrolet versus Mercedes Benz or a Chevy Corvette versus Ferrari or Lamborghini.

This same argument can be made about a high-end Nikon or Canon versus a $100 point & shoot camera. I am not saying that Emotiva is like a P&S camera. I am just using that as an example.

I drive a Chevy, Love it.

Sorry had to..

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by Purplegrasshopper

Here's the problem with your post though. Many, and I'd even venture to say the majority, of people reading these threads (myself included) are new to HTs. They might have a little bit of knowledge here and there, but are for the most part armatures, more so with audio I think than video. When you throw a list of what, 200+ (I didn't count them all) manufactures of subs and amps, that is a little bit intimidating. I don't know anyone who has the time to click on every single one of those links and research every single sub and amp out there. So what ends up happening is that people gravitate towards products that are getting the most attention (i.e. Onkyo, Polk, ED, Emotiva, etc.)

I think you meant: amateurs = people who pursue something not in their professional line of work. Armatures = coils rotating in a magnetic field.

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by sheedoe

Actually Emotiva doesn't sound enhanced at all. It sounds very neutral, as quality amps are supposed to .
Its the amps in the low-end receivers that sound enhanced, especially on the high end frequencies to give you a "wow" effect. They are compensating for their lack of raw power. Emotiva does not!

Even if that's true, the sound should be more neutral after doing calibration. I do agree that they lack raw power. However, more clean power is needed to reproduce bass below 100 Hz. I think it's in that area where these entry level AVRs fail the most, especially when trying to drive 5 - 7 speakers set to large or full range. Setting the speakers to small and setting the crossover in the 80 to 100 Hz range should ease the power demands on an entry level AVRs leaving more of it's clean power to reproduce the midrange and highs assuming it is properly calibrated. If a decent subwoofer is being used, the sound be ok at normal listening levels.

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by Jbald87

I drive a Chevy, Love it.

Sorry had to..

+1

Hey, love your Emotiva (get addicted!) and good choice if you bought one. Bravo!

Go entry level (big bang for the buck) and be happy. Same goes for displays too... The technology just keeps changing and rather fast too. It makes more sense for me to go entry level when after a year or two my HT equipment is already obsolete and I need to upgrade again. That's happened to my old BD player and receiver. My display too is going obsolete but I didn't spend a fortune on the 42" Vizio. Speakers seem to be more future proof. It makes better sense to buy better speakers which you can keep for a long time without having to upgrade. That's way bought Energy speakers.

I love my 4WD Chevy SUV. In this part of Arizona where I live, you really can't do without one, and it didn't cost a fortune.

I love my V663 and and Sony S350 Bd player too. So what if they're like a Chevy. They have never disappointed me at all. My family and I absolutely enjoy the sound with the movies, and it didn't cost a fortune.

Sorry, I couldn't resist either...

[kingofgrills]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

I understand what you are saying. I only gave those two Manufacturers threads as an example. Normally, I don't do that. I created those threads for reference purposes only.

God knows how many times I have tried to give people different options on speakers, receivers, amplifiers, and subwoofers. Every time, you get countless posts from people with limited knowledge who try to push their own equipment. Even when it comes to technical questions, it is amazing the amount of incorrect information that spreads around like a virus.

I have been using amplifiers and subwoofers for over 30 years. There is not a single instant where I have tried to push my own equipment. When people ask me about them, I provide them with information. Some of the members who do not want to be overwhelmed by incorrect information send private messages to me and ask their technical questions. My PM inbox is getting filled up very quickly. Most people do not realize that I do this as a volunteer. I spent a lot of time creating all the threads with sticky for the benefit of the members. My only compensation comes from their satisfaction.

+1, except for the over 30 years part - more like 22 for me. I started with separates at that time, so moving to all-in-one integrated components was the evolution for me. Most newbies today start with all-in-one AVs and then discover separate components later on.

Since the site has a large number of newbies (which I welcome) into home theater, most of the questions asked focus on "What's the cheapest ___?" or "What's the best ___?" We always need to remind people not to blind buy anything, even based on a recommendation. A person needs to see or hear something for himself(or herself) before truly making an informed purchase. A little research and auditioning goes a long way.

[STARKILLER--1138]

Originally Posted by kingofgrills

A person needs to see or hear something for himself(or herself) before truly making an informed purchase. A little research and auditioning goes a long way.

[SRTCraig]

If i could go back and do it again i would start with separates. The way technology changes with new surround codecs it would be nice to just be able to slip out the processor for a nice new shiny one and reduce your losses...

I honestly think the power behind a HT is the most important thing to consider, with speakers not far behind. If you find that power amp that you love (price irrelevant) chances are you will keep it for a very long time. Power doesn't change, sound does but if you shopped carefully you would've chosen the one that sounded good to you. If a new codec comes out in theory it will only make it sound better. The same theory applies to speakers IMO, in that a good speaker will only sound better.....

I've never read anything into reviews or anything written in forums. They're a great guideline for narrowing down ones choices. I like what i like and its never going to be everybody's cup of tea, and i guess that's the beauty of it.

Synergy is probably the most important thing in Audio, and everybody hears things differently. It cannot be achieved without listening to equipment. I don't know how many times i lugged my amp into shops to put on speakers to really see how they sounded.

[sheedoe]

Originally Posted by rwojtalewicz

Even if that's true, the sound should be more neutral after doing calibration.

My friend has the Denon 4306 Receiver and Aperion Intimus 6 Series speakers.
I have the Onkyo 885 Pre/pro with Emotiva IPS-1 and RBH TK series speakers.
Both have been calibrated with the built-in Ausyssey multiEQ XT equilizer.

Here's my observation between the two:

My friend's system sounds noticeably brighter and harsher. You can also hear distortions at high volume.
My system has a much more neutral sound. You can comfortably turn the volume way up with out worrying about your ears bleeding. Not to mention there's no distortions at all at high volume.

I'm not trying to push my system on anyone but anybody who heard the difference between a receiver and sperates would probably know what I'm talking about. I've become accustomed to the sound of seperates and could never go back to receiver.

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by sheedoe

My friend has the Denon 4306 Receiver and Aperion Intimus 6 Series speakers.
I have the Onkyo 885 Pre/pro with Emotiva IPS-1 and RBH TK series speakers.
Both have been calibrated with the built-in Ausyssey multiEQ XT equilizer.

Here's my observation between the two:

My friend's system sounds noticeably brighter and harsher. You can also hear distortions at high volume.
My system has a much more neutral sound. You can comfortably turn the volume way up with out worrying about your ears bleeding. Not to mention there's no distortions at all at high volume.

I'm not trying to push my system on anyone but anybody who heard the difference between a receiver and sperates would probably know what I'm talking about. I've become accustomed to the sound of seperates and could never go back to receiver.

Back in the 90's although it was for stereo, I had a separate pream and power amp both made by Rotel which might not be high end but it's respectable equipment I would think. I had my Tannoy Sixes (6o9 model) with 8 in. dual concentric drivers hooked up to the Rotel (100 W /Ch). I listened mostly to CDs on my Rotel CD player. So for a stereo setup I know exactly what separates sound like. I sold the Rotel gear before moving to the States since it was all 240V 50 Hz gear anyway. After moving to the States I got into HT but before Blu-ray ever came out but I hung on to the Tannoys in case I wanted to gear up for 2 channel listening again. I bought Energy speakers and recently a Yamaha V663 receiver. I decided to setup the Tannoys using zone B option for stereo listening. I would only listen to the Tannoys in Pure Direct mode so it was just them and the Yamaha's pream/power amp direct. The Tannoys sounded exceptionally well hooked up to my Yamaha 663. I listened to all my favorite CDs and cranked up the volume pretty loud some times but never heard harsh highs, or anything that would drive my wife and daughter out of the room and believe me they have sensitive ears. I would say it sounded as good as when the Rotel pre/power amp separates drove them although that is not a valid comparison since there is no way I can do the DBT. But please accept on my word that sound was superb. Of course the Yamaha wasn't driving 7 speakers, only two. I had done some listening to the CD music over the Energy speaker system that I have for HT movies. I will say this, the quality was different perhaps something was missing like intricate details in the music, but in 7 ch stereo driving all 7 of my Energy speakers to loud listening levels, I never heard any harsh bright highs or sounds that would make my ears or my family's ears ache or hurt. It was a different sort of sound but definitely not painful or harsh.

I am not familiar with your friend's system never owned a Denon AVR or Aperion speakers, but if I were him, I would sell that stuff and get something better. Perhaps he needs to go V663 pre/pro + Emotiva UPA 7. I don't know.

All I can say that's not the listening experience I got with my V663 and Energy speakers (HT) or Tannoys (stereo HiFi).

[Hammie]

This is a great thread.

I'm looking at dropping around $20K on speakers and amps within the next 2-3 years (wife doesn't want me to spend too much of our savings all at once) and I am just looking to make the best decision. A local company who I do most of my business with has some of the higher end amps available, but with all the talk of Emotiva, I was just wondering how it would match up to some of the others out there regularly paired with the B&W 8 Series speakers.

My biggest concern is that I can demo some of the amps with the speakers I'm looking at locally, but cannot test the sound of the amp until I purchase it.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by louhamilton

I'm looking at dropping around $20K on speakers and amps within the next 2-3 years (wife doesn't want me to spend too much of our savings all at once) and I am just looking to make the best decision. A local company who I do most of my business with has some of the higher end amps available, but with all the talk of Emotiva, I was just wondering how it would match up to some of the others out there regularly paired with the B&W 8 Series speakers.

My biggest concern is that I can demo some of the amps with the speakers I'm looking at locally, but cannot test the sound of the amp until I purchase it.

$20k will get you some very nice kit! I would go almost as far to say this level you can probably consider more traditional high end audio brands.

How many channels are you talking about--stereo or the full 5.1? If you have enough space for them, at your budget level you should seriously consider MartinLogan's speakers.

[Hammie]

Originally Posted by richteer

$20k will get you some very nice kit! I would go almost as far to say this level you can probably consider more traditional high end audio brands.

How many channels are you talking about--stereo or the full 5.1? If you have enough space for them, at your budget level you should seriously consider MartinLogan's speakers.

It will be a 5.1. I've listened to the 803D's in stereo only. and 804S's in both a 2-channel and HT setup. I liked the highs on the 803D's better when listening to 2 channel, but have no reference for what they would sound in a HT setup.

The guy at the store said if most of my use will be HT (which it will be), then I should probably go with the 804S or 803S and save some money on speakers and spend the difference in good amps. He recommended McIntosh.

He said he had heard of Emotiva but never listened to one. He had heard they were on par with Rotel as far as sound and quality.

Space is an issue and at least most of the ML's I have seen are huge. My room might be 11-12x16 with a viewing distance around 7.5-8 feet. I also have the WAF to consider.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

I live in Southern California - home of lots of media companies, and tens of millions of consumers - and it's still not easy to get an unbiased listen to audio equipment. Retailers are not close to each other, prices are astronomical, and most of the retailers are not eager to spend time with people learning about high end audio.

Once outside of Southern California, it's nearly impossible to audition high end gear personally. The idea of blind-buying gear on from used gear venues is completely intimidating, even to me, and I have some idea of what I'd like to get.

I walked into an "ancient name" audio store in Woodland Hills in the San Fernando Valley, and couldn't get the time of day. Two physicians (the salesman was respectfully referring to both as "Doctor Whozis" and "Doctor Pompous" and doing everything except strewing rose petals at their feet) were being introduced to some sterling combination of Macintosh and Sonus Faber, which did sound very nice. I waited patiently while they talked, not being pushy.

So for some reason, my presence seemed to interrupt the sales guy's flow of blather, and he looked at them with the "let me dismiss this fellow" look and asked, very condescendingly, if there was something I wanted.

Yes, I said, I'd like the JL Audio Fathom subwoofer, if you have it in stock. Blew him away.

So he runs off to get it, and I wind up chatting with these two guys, who knew zilch point squat about real high end audio; they were just getting into it. So we talked about Sonus Faber, and Vienna Acoustics, which I already owned, and Macintosh, which I don't, and how much these things should cost.

Here's the point. When it comes to high end audio, the price of admission asked by these venues approaches ridiculous levels. I'd bought my way in by purchasing high end gear. If I had asked this sales turkey which of the high end amplifiers would be best with my Polk speakers, he'd have dismissed me like a servant that needed a haircut. I mention an expensive subwoofer, and he drops one wing and flutters in circles. This is disconcerting to a newbie just trying to figure out where he or she wants to go with this stuff.

Anyway, the guy comes back with my sub in this massive box, all frantic for this sale, and we're looking at him sweating like a coolie. The two docs say, thanks for helping us, we were just looking, and they split. So he was ignoring me, sucking up to them, and I wound up being his payday. It just stops making sense when folks looking for information go to some of these places. And there aren't many of them.

So looking at gear on line, then sending requests for info here to this website, may ironically be one of the best venues for people who can't spend the time going to see this stuff personally without great effort. It's a long drive to go see it, and when you get there, you might wind up being treated like a buffoon or worse...

This is like reading a story from my own book of experiences! Very well said and I shoud add.....it still happens to me at my very ripe age (in comparison to most here).

John

[Happycamper]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Many manufacturers such as the companies listed in the Amplifier Manufacturers make great amplifiers. What makes Emotiva unique is that their amplifiers are very good and cheap. The reason they are cheap is because Emotiva only sells their products through the Internet. You cannot buy Emotiva amplifiers in stores.

Emotiva is not better than other amplifiers. Many people buy Emotiva amplifiers because they are cheaper, not because they are better.

People on this forum sometimes make exaggerated claims about their purchases and push them on everybody. The problem is that most of them have purchased their first amplifier, receiver, speakers, or TV and they need to justify the expenditures.

We have the same problem with Elemental Designs subwoofers. There are many other companies that make great subwoofers. However, ED is all that we hear about. You can find some great subwoofers from these Subwoofer Manufacturers.

Why spend more than you have to for a great amp like the Emotiva. Seems silly to me that people are so stuck on the idea of name brands and are willing to shell out 3-4 times as much dinero for the same thing only because it has a name brand/badge.

Emotiva brings something to customers that is not made available by the big name brands, affordable, high quality amps. You can compare cars, but I can point out a few articles where a Corvette out perfomed a Ferrai in a shootout. You can speak of fancy cars compared to a Hyundai but when it comes down to it that Hyundai Geneis is kicking some butt for a whole lot less. Not only that, it has a better warrenty and reliabilty than a Mercedes, BMW............

People no longer need to be rich or snoobs to own seperates, all in thanks to Emotiva. SO I WILL tell anyone looking for a great amp for little money to head over to EMOTIVA. I may not have been around the world of A/V gear for the past 30 years but I like history. Tech has come along way from 30 years ago. I'm sure things were very different 10-15 years ago, but a lot has changed. Emotiva is a direct result of the changes taking place in the A/V world. They could have marketed like all the big boys but they chose to keep cost down. Would you say they were no good if they cost 3K each?

SS amps of the same class and specs will sound the same. Tube amps are a different beast all together.

People can hate on EMO for having a fan fair but maybe it's just EMO envy since some have spent so much more for so much less. I think there needs to be a single thread for EMOTIVA related discusions like they have over at AVS called EMOTIVA EMOTIONS.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Happycamper

SS amps of the same class and specs will sound the same.

I don't want to ask what you've been smoking, because it's obviously diminished your hearing!

John

[Happycamper]

Originally Posted by John72953

I don't want to ask what you've been smoking, because it's obviously diminished your hearing!

John

Solid State amps sound different within the same class and specs? I think your mistaken about whose been smoking.......... Science my friend proves me right.

If I am wrong prove it, lets not waste time with this one on mistical powers and magic.

[Strannix136]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Many manufacturers such as the companies listed in the Amplifier Manufacturers make great amplifiers. What makes Emotiva unique is that their amplifiers are very good and cheap. The reason they are cheap is because Emotiva only sells their products through the Internet. You cannot buy Emotiva amplifiers in stores.

Emotiva is not better than other amplifiers. Many people buy Emotiva amplifiers because they are cheaper, not because they are better.

People on this forum sometimes make exaggerated claims about their purchases and push them on everybody. The problem is that most of them have purchased their first amplifier, receiver, speakers, or TV and they need to justify the expenditures.

We have the same problem with Elemental Designs subwoofers. There are many other companies that make great subwoofers. However, ED is all that we hear about. You can find some great subwoofers from these Subwoofer Manufacturers.

How do you justify YOUR overinflated opinions?

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Happycamper

Solid State amps sound different within the same class and specs? I think your mistaken about whose been smoking.......... Science my friend proves me right.

If I am wrong prove it, lets not waste time with this one on mistical powers and magic.

And how would you propose that I prove it? By what? Stats?

John