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Old 09-05-2019, 02:47 AM   #981
Kris Deering Kris Deering is online now
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I think it is disingenuous to say that HDR10+ only benefits low nit displays. Why do I keep seeing that being tossed around? Frame by frame metadata benefits any display that cannot do true nit for nit displaying of content. It allows the tone mapping to know exactly what each scene has so it doesn't waste any range like a static tone map would. It would also benefit ANY display with a dynamic contrast system (see just about any LCD display, regardless of nit value) because once again, the dynamic system would know exactly what the APL of the scene is so far less chance of ANY artifacts typically associated with dynamic contrast systems (clipping, dimming, pumping).

I haven't played around with HDR10+ personally, but I know a few things about video and tone mapping and saying this is a system that would only benefit low nit displays sounds like misrepresentation to downplay its advantages.
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Old 09-05-2019, 02:58 AM   #982
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I haven't played around with HDR10+ personally, but I know a few things about video and tone mapping and saying this is a system that would only benefit low nit displays sounds like misrepresentation to downplay its advantages.
Vincent Teoh has reviewed a couple of HDR10+ discs and came to the conclusion that the format was optimized for 500 nit or lower TVs. Even Samsung, in most of their advertising of the format, emphasized the benefits for low nit displays.
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Old 09-05-2019, 07:17 AM   #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
I think it is disingenuous to say that HDR10+ only benefits low nit displays. Why do I keep seeing that being tossed around? Frame by frame metadata benefits any display that cannot do true nit for nit displaying of content. It allows the tone mapping to know exactly what each scene has so it doesn't waste any range like a static tone map would. It would also benefit ANY display with a dynamic contrast system (see just about any LCD display, regardless of nit value) because once again, the dynamic system would know exactly what the APL of the scene is so far less chance of ANY artifacts typically associated with dynamic contrast systems (clipping, dimming, pumping).

I haven't played around with HDR10+ personally, but I know a few things about video and tone mapping and saying this is a system that would only benefit low nit displays sounds like misrepresentation to downplay its advantages.
Stacey Spears exact words were that on a 1000 nit and above Qled, he could see zero difference between Hdr10 and HDR10+. But on a 500 nit or lower display it made a huge difference.

Still feel it's disingenuous?
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Old 09-05-2019, 08:01 AM   #984
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I think this thread should be stickied.
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Old 09-05-2019, 03:14 PM   #985
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Quote:
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Right, they're probably lacking 10+ (aside from the main 10+ tech supporters not being renowned for their projection gear e.g. Samsung) for the same reason as why DV isn't a thing on consumer projektors: in order to map the image you need a fixed baseline of performance for the display but with PJs they're only half the solution, the screen is also a big component of how the image quality will ultimately look.

In other words: They can't legislate for the exact specs of whatever screen is being used, not with 'out of the box' settings anyway, so content-led dynamic tone mapping could end up being as rudderless as any static mapping system.
This just announced today which might improve some projektors as you call them http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2019/consu...re_update.html
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Old 09-05-2019, 10:35 PM   #986
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Quote:
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This just announced today which might improve some projektors as you call them http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2019/consu...re_update.html
Someone's put a 'dynamic' in-house system on a PJ at last! But given how JVC already partnered with Panasonic's HDR optimiser mode to reproduce the direct cinematic equivalent that blows everything else away ever ever EVER - according to some - then one wonders why they needed their own in-house option at all? winkyface
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:20 PM   #987
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Glad to see Warner finally included HDR 10+ on their releases. Wish Aquaman, Shazam and legacy Batman made the cut. I've heard great things about Godzilla.
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:17 AM   #988
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:54 AM   #989
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Is HDR10+ getting more traction now then? My TV supports it but my 4K Blu Ray player doesn't. It's nice to have but doesn't seem a deal breaker.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:47 AM   #990
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@scarletlion Just slowly, but Dolby Vision is still the more popular one though. Universal, Fox, and Warner Bros are slowly starting to release more HDR10+ movies now so I guess the format isn't dead as I originally thought of.
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Old 10-15-2019, 01:35 PM   #991
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Originally Posted by scarletlion View Post
Is HDR10+ getting more traction now then? My TV supports it but my 4K Blu Ray player doesn't. It's nice to have but doesn't seem a deal breaker.

There doesn't seem to be anything more "nice" about it than HDR10 realistically speaking. It's just a way to snag licensing fees for Samsung.
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Old 10-15-2019, 01:42 PM   #992
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@FilmFreakosaurus Hard to believe the largest selling Korean TV brand company would be this cheap on not using DV & instead made their own carbon copy version of DV. No wonder LG and Sony are getting better & better, even Vizio, TCL, and Hisense have DV, leaving Samsung the only one without it.
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Old 10-15-2019, 02:38 PM   #993
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Originally Posted by Zoland2020 View Post
@FilmFreakosaurus Hard to believe the largest selling Korean TV brand company would be this cheap on not using DV & instead made their own carbon copy version of DV. No wonder LG and Sony are getting better & better, even Vizio, TCL, and Hisense have DV, leaving Samsung the only one without it.

HDR10+ is not a carbon copy, however. It's a lesser form and has no ability to do 12 bit or use ICtCp encoding.
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:00 PM   #994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus View Post
HDR10+ is not a carbon copy, however. It's a lesser form and has no ability to do 12 bit or use ICtCp encoding.
Much of nothing has the ability to display 12 bit, which puts it in proper perspective. When 12 bit devices are more common, I would expect and update to 10+ to support it.

Last edited by King Crimson; 10-15-2019 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 10-15-2019, 06:59 PM   #995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Crimson View Post
Much of nothing has the ability to display 12 bit, which puts it in proper perspective. When 12 bit devices are more common, I would expect and update to 10+ to support it.
Hmmm....

I'd quite like video to be encoded and distributed using 4:4:4 chroma sub-sampling at 10-bits. But it ain't gonna happen
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:57 PM   #996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Crimson View Post
Much of nothing has the ability to display 12 bit, which puts it in proper perspective. When 12 bit devices are more common, I would expect and update to 10+ to support it.
Except it won't work - because the 12-bit instructions in Dolby Vision FEL require a lot more data, and HDR10+ is more like DV MEL...with just metadata for tone mapping.
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Old 10-24-2019, 08:23 PM   #997
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Old 11-08-2019, 06:23 PM   #998
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My TV just got updated to support HDR10+, but reading some of these posts it's seeming like it's not worth it for me to go out and get a 4K player that supports it?
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Old 11-08-2019, 06:27 PM   #999
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My TV just got updated to support HDR10+, but reading some of these posts it's seeming like it's not worth it for me to go out and get a 4K player that supports it?
If your TV supports it then id highly recommend getting one. Helps you get the best picture possible with your current set. If that's not very important to you, then id say don't worry about upgrading your player.
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Old 11-08-2019, 06:34 PM   #1000
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Originally Posted by tcripe View Post
If your TV supports it then id highly recommend getting one. Helps you get the best picture possible with your current set. If that's not very important to you, then id say don't worry about upgrading your player.
I was planning on it but after reading everyone say it's useless over 500 nits I started to rethink it.

Might as well find one and sell my K8500 I guess
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