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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Blu-ray > Blu-ray PCs, Laptops, Drives, Media and Software

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Old 09-14-2006, 06:21 PM   #1
Don Blish Don Blish is offline
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Jun 2006
Los Angeles
Default Limited Success: HDV to playable Blu-Ray

I received a Sony BWU100A drive two weeks ago…the box (with a very low serial#) arrived without the software disc. The “Cyberlink BD Solution 1.0” was mailed by Sony and I have been experimenting with it.

The drive will, of course, make CD, DVD and BD data discs without problems.

For video, I wanted to put my latest HDV project (1080x1440 30i) of 99 minutes on a disc with chapter buttons and further chapter marks for intervening scenes. The bundled software CAN import, add chapter marks and burn to BD-RE, but the menu making module was omitted for now. The software took my edited .avi file (From PremierePro2.0 + Cineform Access HD) of 87gigs (!) and encoded it to 19.3 gigs on BD-RE – about the same size/data rate as it would be on the source HDV tape. This was using Cyberlink Producer 3.3 – BD Edition, version 3.7.0.2824

The resulting disc played and looked stunning, using the included player: PowerDVD 6.6 BD Edition. When inserted into a Samsung BDP1000 on display at an accommodating nearby retailer, the disc WOULD NOT LOAD, and the machine had to be unplugged before eventually ejecting the disc. Of course, there is no way, at present, to tell if it is the Samsung or, more likely, the Cyberlink software at fault.

I also made a test disc with short segments, (including a resolution chart) in four different formats: HDV-1080x1440 16:9, NTSC-DV-480x720 16:9, NTSC-DV-480-720 4:3 and finally PAL-DV-576x720 25fps 16:9. The PowerDVD software played each in sequence, at the correct aspect ration and with only a half second flicker between each segment. If you were going to do this in a finished project, you would want to fade in and out of black and have no audio running over the transition. This disc would not load in the Samsung player either.

Unfortunately, the “capture” function in PowerProducer would not work on any camera (DV or HDV) or from any mode (DVD or BD). While this port on the moterhboard (TI-OCHI) and its Microsoft driver are flawless in PremierePro, it crashed the entire OS if tried in PowerProducer……But then I was not planning to use that function. Also, it would not import the mpeg2 file Cineform makes for exporting back into the camera. There it just crashed the application, not the OS.

For those of you into the details, here is the logical layout of the disc:
Only folder: BDAV
Sub folders: CLIPINF with a tiny file 00001.clpi
PLAYLIST with a tiny file 00001.roks
STREAM with a file 00001.m2ts of 19.336 gigs for 99 minutes

Cyberlink’s PowerToGo “DeskData” application was used to copy the above disc, and that too played in PowerDVD software but we did not try it in the Samsung. There is no explicit “Copy BD movie” tab.

So, at this date (Sep 14, 2006) you CAN put HDV on Blu-ray, but without a menu but you will have little assurance it will play in a Blu-ray player. I expect Cyberlink, with Sony’s urging, will get these features working soon. I certainly hope we have something better from Adobe soon – we don’t need every advanced feature of BDjava menus working for a first version.
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Old 10-12-2006, 04:09 AM   #2
mr5150 mr5150 is offline
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Oct 2006
Default

Did you ever get it to work? I have the same problem, though I can't even get the .m2ts files into Cyberlink or any other program. Any Ideas?

Thanks,LArry
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:38 PM   #3
Don Blish Don Blish is offline
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Jun 2006
Los Angeles
Default Waiting for Sony player - and on mt2....

I am waiting till my Sony BDP-S1 arrives in three weeks, as I am sure the Sammy player was "Pre standard". As to the .m2t file, a post on dvinfo.com encouraged me to use ReMux_TS from here

http://www.yamabe.org/softbody.html

to convert the "transport stream" to regular .mpg. That worked like a charm in PowerProducer. Since it was already .mpg and did not need re-encoding, it went on Blu-Ray at write speed, 48 minutes for a 99 minute project.

Last edited by Don Blish; 10-12-2006 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 11-15-2006, 11:48 PM   #4
Prophet Izaach Prophet Izaach is offline
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Nov 2006
Default

When I saw the thread title, I thought it says HVD so I was surprised. But a split second later, I realized it's actually HDV.
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Old 12-10-2006, 05:32 PM   #5
Don Blish Don Blish is offline
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Jun 2006
Los Angeles
Default Have BDP-S1...waiting for firmware update

Well, I have a Sony player and it does a beautiful job on purchased BD-ROMs, but playability of my own BD-RE discs will have to await the firmware update in early 2007.

http://esupport.sony.com/perl/news-i...=163&mdl=BDPS1
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Old 12-10-2006, 06:45 PM   #6
SDK SDK is offline
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Nov 2006
Default

Unfortunately I don't have a BD burner so far, but i'd give a try to different authoring and playing software as well as to burning software

1) Changing resolution to standard profiles, i.e 1920x1080

2) Try different authoring software and see if the results can be played at both software players (windvd & powerdvd)

3) Nero Burning Rom allowed you to change DVD's bookmark data from DVD+/-R to DVD-ROM, I wonder if it gives the same feature to Blu-ray, say it would allow you to change BD's bookmark from BD-R to BD-ROM, so the standalone players will consider your BD-R as a standard BD-ROM

ps: all soft is trial, so try them out and don't forget to get BD-RE for these tests
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Old 12-16-2006, 08:51 PM   #7
kentfry kentfry is offline
Junior Member
 
Dec 2006
Australia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Blish View Post
I received a Sony BWU100A drive two weeks ago…the box (with a very low serial#) arrived without the software disc. The “Cyberlink BD Solution 1.0” was mailed by Sony and I have been experimenting with it.

The drive will, of course, make CD, DVD and BD data discs without problems.

For video, I wanted to put my latest HDV project (1080x1440 30i) of 99 minutes on a disc with chapter buttons and further chapter marks for intervening scenes. The bundled software CAN import, add chapter marks and burn to BD-RE, but the menu making module was omitted for now. The software took my edited .avi file (From PremierePro2.0 + Cineform Access HD) of 87gigs (!) and encoded it to 19.3 gigs on BD-RE – about the same size/data rate as it would be on the source HDV tape. This was using Cyberlink Producer 3.3 – BD Edition, version 3.7.0.2824

The resulting disc played and looked stunning, using the included player: PowerDVD 6.6 BD Edition. When inserted into a Samsung BDP1000 on display at an accommodating nearby retailer, the disc WOULD NOT LOAD, and the machine had to be unplugged before eventually ejecting the disc. Of course, there is no way, at present, to tell if it is the Samsung or, more likely, the Cyberlink software at fault.

I also made a test disc with short segments, (including a resolution chart) in four different formats: HDV-1080x1440 16:9, NTSC-DV-480x720 16:9, NTSC-DV-480-720 4:3 and finally PAL-DV-576x720 25fps 16:9. The PowerDVD software played each in sequence, at the correct aspect ration and with only a half second flicker between each segment. If you were going to do this in a finished project, you would want to fade in and out of black and have no audio running over the transition. This disc would not load in the Samsung player either.

Unfortunately, the “capture” function in PowerProducer would not work on any camera (DV or HDV) or from any mode (DVD or BD). While this port on the moterhboard (TI-OCHI) and its Microsoft driver are flawless in PremierePro, it crashed the entire OS if tried in PowerProducer……But then I was not planning to use that function. Also, it would not import the mpeg2 file Cineform makes for exporting back into the camera. There it just crashed the application, not the OS.

For those of you into the details, here is the logical layout of the disc:
Only folder: BDAV
Sub folders: CLIPINF with a tiny file 00001.clpi
PLAYLIST with a tiny file 00001.roks
STREAM with a file 00001.m2ts of 19.336 gigs for 99 minutes

Cyberlink’s PowerToGo “DeskData” application was used to copy the above disc, and that too played in PowerDVD software but we did not try it in the Samsung. There is no explicit “Copy BD movie” tab.

So, at this date (Sep 14, 2006) you CAN put HDV on Blu-ray, but without a menu but you will have little assurance it will play in a Blu-ray player. I expect Cyberlink, with Sony’s urging, will get these features working soon. I certainly hope we have something better from Adobe soon – we don’t need every advanced feature of BDjava menus working for a first version.
Like Don, I have struggled to get my HDV footage onto a blu-ray disk with navigable menus. I also use Premiere Pro 2 with Aspect HD intermediate. Now I have DVDit! Pro HD and am able to create navigable menus. I have burned them to a BD-RE, in BDMV format. The files on the BD-RE look the same as a commercial BD. So far so good. However, I can't find a software player to play back the BDMV on the BD-RE. It seems that all the players recognise the BD-RE as a something different and expect to play back BD-AV files.

Has any one found a PC software player that will play BDMV files from a BD-RE? I have tried the one that came with my PC (Intervideo WinDVD BD for VAIO) and Cyberlink. These don't work because they expect BD-MV files on a BD-RE and BD-AV files on a BD-J.

There seems to be just one more step required to be able to get HDV footage onto a writable BD that will play in a fashion similar to a DVD.
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Old 12-20-2006, 07:03 PM   #8
Don Blish Don Blish is offline
Member
 
Jun 2006
Los Angeles
Default Good work!

Good work, I'm glad you were able to make a navigable menu. As to why they play on a player and not PCsoftware, I don't think it is the media (BD-ROM/RE/R) so much the software being unwilling to do a BDMV project that does not have the rights-management folders. However, If your Roxio project pases muster with the BluRay Association, I'm certain that the software will be updated.

Now some questions:
1) What settop player did you test successfully on (Samsung, Sony, Panasonic or Phillips)?
2) What did you "feed" DVDit? A full res CineformHD .avi or an already encoded .m2t, (or a .m2t RMux_TSed file in "elementary" .mpg format).
3) Will DVDit allow you to make a menu from scratch in Photoshop or must you use one of their "templates"?

Last edited by Don Blish; 12-20-2006 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 12-20-2006, 07:44 PM   #9
kentfry kentfry is offline
Junior Member
 
Dec 2006
Australia
Default DVDit HD Pro

The BD-RE played was a Panasonic player presently available in Australia only as a demo machine, not in the Sony (firmware to come in 2007) or a Samsung player. I tried each of the players in various electronics shops.
I fed DVDit Pro HD a Cineform HD.avi. I previously tried a mpeg file generated by Adobe Media Encoder in Premiere Pro 2, and it didn't work. I assume that it was not blu-ray compliant, but don't know why.
Menus can be made from scratch using photoshop, according to the help file. However, I used my own background (a .jpg) and dragged and dropped chapter points on it to make buttons. I also adjusted a template and both approaches worked.
I hope the process continues to unravel. I have many hours of HDV (mostly waiting on disk) that I need to get onto blu-ray, but am still worried about the last (I hope) software piece to fall in place.
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Old 12-20-2006, 09:17 PM   #10
Don Blish Don Blish is offline
Member
 
Jun 2006
Los Angeles
Default

As mentioned in other posts, I was able to get Cyberlink PowerProducer for BR to accept my encoded .m2t files after having run them through ReMux_TS to break back to elementary .mpg files. Needless to say, I archive the compact .m2t files on my computer. If future software demands .avi files I'll use Cineform to expand back to that format.
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Old 12-20-2006, 09:25 PM   #11
EKIM EKIM is offline
Junior Member
 
Dec 2006
Default

Hi Don, have you been able to capture direct to bluray format (to your hard drive) I cannot seem to do it.


Mike
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Old 12-22-2006, 07:56 PM   #12
Ollie W. Holmes Ollie W. Holmes is offline
New Member
 
Dec 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentfry View Post
The BD-RE played was a Panasonic player presently available in Australia only as a demo machine, not in the Sony (firmware to come in 2007) or a Samsung player.
This sounds like encouraging news. We are at the dawn of a new technology (as young as a toddler). I was hoping that Pioneer would be able to read BD-R discs as well, since I would assume that the demo disk they supply to US retailers was not glass-mastered. Should I get a Sony or Plextor blu-ray writer? I'm anxious to try some experiments in 2007.
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Old 12-22-2006, 08:56 PM   #13
pixel pixel is offline
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Dec 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie W. Holmes View Post
This sounds like encouraging news. We are at the dawn of a new technology (as young as a toddler). I was hoping that Pioneer would be able to read BD-R discs as well, since I would assume that the demo disk they supply to US retailers was not glass-mastered. Should I get a Sony or Plextor blu-ray writer? I'm anxious to try some experiments in 2007.
I have a Sony Blu-ray player and also a Panasonic DMP-BD10. I have used DVDit-Pro HD to author a BD/R or BD/RE disc and is works fine in the Panasonic player.

->kentry: I have used Adobe Premiere Pro 2 and the Adobe Media Enocder for exporting and it works fine without reencoding in DVDit... Have you used the template 1080 60i 15 Mb... or 1080 50i for PAL? You can even set the video encoding rate the as you like...
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Old 12-29-2006, 08:35 PM   #14
phloyd phloyd is offline
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Dec 2003
California
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It looks like VideoLan Client (vlc) can play back the .m2ts files that are generated on a PC (and I presume other platforms also).
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Old 12-30-2006, 11:20 PM   #15
banders100 banders100 is offline
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Dec 2006
Default Playback on Samsung Blu-Ray Player

I am using the Sony Blu-ray burner with Cyberlink software and playing authored discs on the Samsung Blu-ray player. Here's what I found out: When I authored a disc to a BD-RE disc, it would play fine on the Samsung player, but when I authored to a BD-R disc, it would NOT play on the Sumsung Blu-Ray player. I opened up the "Nero info tool" and discovered that the discs that did play were "closed" while the discs that would not play (BD-R) were reported as "open" by Nero info tool. Since there is no way to finalize or close a BD-R disc and no option to do so in Cyberlink, you can not play a BD-R authored by Cyberlink and played in the Samsung Blu-ray player. This must be a bug in Cyberlink Power Producer. I have also found no settings in the Samsung player that would allow me to play a disc that is not "closed".
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Old 12-31-2006, 02:04 AM   #16
Don Blish Don Blish is offline
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Jun 2006
Los Angeles
Default Is your Samsung player recent or upgraded?

Note that in the opening post, Cyberlink PowerProducer for BD to BD-RE discs did not play on the local retailer's (early) BDP1000. Is yours of recent manufacture (August or after) or otherwise firmware upgraded? [I'm still waiting for my Sony BDP-S1 firmware upgrade]
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Old 12-31-2006, 10:09 PM   #17
kentfry kentfry is offline
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Dec 2006
Australia
Default 4Gb limit

I tried putting all files in the D:\ directory. The same 4Gb limit still applies. Still waiting for Roxio to answer me on this issue.
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Old 12-31-2006, 11:06 PM   #18
SS Scott SS Scott is offline
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Dec 2006
Default

Kentfry,

Someone from Roxio has been responding to you (me)...though not off of your tech support request.

That said, I am a bit stymied by your situation. Perhaps if the application was on C: and your temp directory was on C: and your content was coming from your external hard drive? Rather than one being on C: one on J: and one on D: . I don't know. something about your setup, but I do not no what. How many hard drives do you have??

Friday, I double checked and had QA burn a 20 GB disc. no problems whatsoever. I just answered a question for someone at forums.support.roxio.com who just completed an 18 GB one hour twenty minute disc (though he did that with legal MPEG-2 assets created with Procoder)

Can you post over at the Roxio support forum and see how some of these other users are being successfull? In the meantime, we'll keep checking on QA, but your configuration sounds different from what we test on.
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Old 01-01-2007, 12:45 AM   #19
kentfry kentfry is offline
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Dec 2006
Australia
Default 4Gb limit

Thanks for answering. System is an AR series Sony VAIO laptop with BD-MLT UJ-210S burner. Has 2*80Gb disks in Raid 0 configuration (drives C and D), a further 80 Gb disk in docking station, and a couple of 1Tb LaCie 1394B Raid 0 disks attached via PC card. I have tried putting the temp disk on all but the C drive where there is not enough space.
Files should be compliant, generated from Cineform HD in Premiere Pro 2, using Cineform m2ts converter, or Adobe converter, or MainConcept converter. All are 50i (PAL system) files. Works OK for very short pieces and burns to disc OK. However, can't get a longer piece (1hr 5mins), about 12Gb past the 4Gb limit. All disks are NTFS. The only FAT things on the laptop are slots for memory stick and SD cards.

I have another bigger faster PC, but can't load DVDit on - gives me an error message when I start up, as described in my tech support message to Roxio.
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Old 01-01-2007, 07:12 PM   #20
Harpdude Harpdude is offline
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Dec 2006
Glendale, AZ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by banders100 View Post
I am using the Sony Blu-ray burner with Cyberlink software and playing authored discs on the Samsung Blu-ray player. Here's what I found out: When I authored a disc to a BD-RE disc, it would play fine on the Samsung player, but when I authored to a BD-R disc, it would NOT play on the Sumsung Blu-Ray player. I opened up the "Nero info tool" and discovered that the discs that did play were "closed" while the discs that would not play (BD-R) were reported as "open" by Nero info tool. Since there is no way to finalize or close a BD-R disc and no option to do so in Cyberlink, you can not play a BD-R authored by Cyberlink and played in the Samsung Blu-ray player. This must be a bug in Cyberlink Power Producer. I have also found no settings in the Samsung player that would allow me to play a disc that is not "closed".
Oddly, I found the exact opposite to be true on the Panasonic. A BD-R disc successfully burned by DVDit Pro HD would play, but a Cyberlink Power Producer BD-RE would not play. Go figure....

David Ice
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