Best Blu-ray Movie Deals


Best Blu-ray Movie Deals, See All the Deals »
Top deals | New deals  
 All countries United States United Kingdom Canada Germany France Spain Italy Australia Netherlands Japan Mexico
Back to the Future: The Ultimate Trilogy 4K (Blu-ray)
$42.99
 
The Omen Collection (Blu-ray)
$39.96
 
Scare Package (Blu-ray)
$14.59
9 hrs ago
Bugs Bunny 80th Anniversary Collection (Blu-ray)
$66.99
23 hrs ago
Fast & Furious Presents: Hobbs & Shaw 4K (Blu-ray)
$9.99
 
Stephen King 5-Movie Collection (Blu-ray)
$27.99
4 hrs ago
John Wick: Chapters 1-3 4K (Blu-ray)
$34.99
5 hrs ago
The Pale Door (Blu-ray)
$14.59
 
Ready or Not (Blu-ray)
$8.99
4 hrs ago
The Big Bang Theory: The Twelfth and Final Season (Blu-ray)
$14.99
1 hr ago
The Dark Knight 4K (Blu-ray)
$14.99
3 hrs ago
INXS: Live Baby Live 4K (Blu-ray)
$23.28
 
What's your next favorite movie?
Join our movie community to find out


Image from: Life of Pi (2012)

Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Home Theater > Home Theater General Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-03-2020, 04:12 PM   #1
ParamountCartoons ParamountCartoons is offline
Member
 
ParamountCartoons's Avatar
 
Nov 2018
Default Can you enjoy dolby atmos.....without dolby atmos?

i feel as if 4k is a waste of money due to rise of 8k, 16k and maybe 32k tvs as well paying an arm and a leg to get my 1080p tv back when 1080p was hot.


but the big bandwagon that I just CANNOT stand is Dolby Atmos. The reason?


I cannot annoy my neighbors.

I have an Atmos and DTS:X decoder on my system, but not a speaker layout. Farthest is 7.1. for me.


And how can I enjoy Dolby Atmos well, without a true Dolby Atmos setup?



Help? Any good new releases on DTS:X?


I was probably going to get away with it by upgrading to a soundbar, but the prices to get all of the speaker channels.....yikes!


Also if you haven't get I get regular blu-rays and not UHD ones.....sorry please do not convince me. If I want to get 4k equipment my tv has to go out and get an 8k or higher tv.


Sorry but when I dream about TV resolution I go all out Walt Disney (the man).

Last edited by ParamountCartoons; 07-03-2020 at 04:23 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2020, 04:18 PM   #2
oddbox83 oddbox83 is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
Sep 2013
UK
Default

I'm a little baffled - surely extra speakers won't make much difference - it's the volume and subwoofer that will do the annoying, and you already appear to have that capability

Some receivers have a pseudo-Atmos setting to fake a height effect from a 5.1 or 7.1 layout. Dolby Atmos Height Virtualization and DTS Virtual:X.
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
AreaFive (07-03-2020)
Old 07-03-2020, 05:11 PM   #3
RodChester RodChester is online now
Blu-ray Knight
 
RodChester's Avatar
 
Jun 2009
Illinois
63
211
2843
141
104
Default

Atmos is about having the speakers in the ceiling. If you don’t have those you can’t have Atmos.
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
Canada (07-09-2020)
Old 07-03-2020, 05:18 PM   #4
AreaFive AreaFive is offline
Active Member
 
AreaFive's Avatar
 
May 2020
Florida
143
775
73
Default

I'm a little confused by what you're asking exactly.

Atmos is optimally obtained by ceiling speakers. It is possible to use "modules" to bounce the sound to the ceiling and then you (some soundbars offer this as well) but this generally is regarded as an inferior substitute (and it only works best if you have flat ceilings).

Another thing to consider is that, while not exclusive to 4K discs, often the Atmos mixes can only be found on 4K discs, so if you have an aversion to 4K, that is going to limit you as well.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2020, 05:24 PM   #5
ditcin ditcin is offline
Banned
 
Apr 2011
NY
19
567
1
Default

Probably the only way to get what you want would be using DOLBY ATMOS headphones. I can't vouch for them, or how well they work - however, you won't have to invest in more speakers, or worry about the volume bothering your neighbors. Just make your purchase though a site or store where you can return them if you're unhappy with the results.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2020, 09:03 PM   #6
roar roar is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
roar's Avatar
 
Feb 2010
Ontario, Canada
14
105
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RodChester View Post
Atmos is about having the speakers in the ceiling. If you donít have those you canít have Atmos.
Is that true? It was my understanding that an Atmos soundtrack regardless of the number of speakers in the mix is dealing with 128 objects and placing them in the sound field based on the number speakers you have, if you have ceiling speakers, great, but if you don't, no problem you're still going to get a better experience than the 8 Channels of sound that Dolby TrueHD offers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2020, 10:25 PM   #7
RodChester RodChester is online now
Blu-ray Knight
 
RodChester's Avatar
 
Jun 2009
Illinois
63
211
2843
141
104
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by roar View Post
Is that true? It was my understanding that an Atmos soundtrack regardless of the number of speakers in the mix is dealing with 128 objects and placing them in the sound field based on the number speakers you have, if you have ceiling speakers, great, but if you don't, no problem you're still going to get a better experience than the 8 Channels of sound that Dolby TrueHD offers.
Possibly. I guess it would depend on how your receiver is going to process the signal. If you donít have any height speakers the receiver might just default to the TrueHD core. I believe Atmos at home is more limited than what can be done for a theater.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2020, 10:59 AM   #8
gotmule gotmule is offline
Expert Member
 
gotmule's Avatar
 
Feb 2010
17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by roar View Post
Is that true? It was my understanding that an Atmos soundtrack regardless of the number of speakers in the mix is dealing with 128 objects and placing them in the sound field based on the number speakers you have, if you have ceiling speakers, great, but if you don't, no problem you're still going to get a better experience than the 8 Channels of sound that Dolby TrueHD offers.
This is correct as the metadata is still there for the processor to interpret. It will be able to handle pans in the bed layer in a smoother transition for example. If you donít have the processor setup for height speakers, it doesnít turn off the metadata. I have not personally tested this, but that is the theory at least.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2020, 12:44 PM   #9
oddbox83 oddbox83 is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
Sep 2013
UK
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RodChester View Post
Atmos is about having the speakers in the ceiling. If you don’t have those you can’t have Atmos.
I have the ZF9 in the bedroom which does Atmos without any Atmos speakers, not even upfirers.

If you toggle the effect on and off there is a clear raising of the sound level into a vertical plane. I'm under no illusion it's anything more than just audio trickery, but it works in what it does.

Not as good as the proper setup downstairs, but I wouldn't expect the ZF9 to match a separate system regardless.

Last edited by oddbox83; 07-04-2020 at 01:23 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
RodChester (07-04-2020)
Old 07-04-2020, 01:12 PM   #10
ditcin ditcin is offline
Banned
 
Apr 2011
NY
19
567
1
Default

If you have the film BOHEMIAM RHAPSODY go to the end, during the Live Aid concert - there's a moment when the camera goes under Freddie's piano and his playing moves into the Atmos channel.
My bet is without Atmos it moves into the surround channels as the camera moves under and by the piano..
I believe most of the Atmos effects will re-steered into surround .

Now with the re-mixed DARK CRYSTAL UHD into Atmos there is one Atmos effect of a crack of thunder that originally came from the front left - now it's been re-channeled into the front left Atmos.
The same is true for the sound of a fly in BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA, when Renfield grabs it.

In either case you won't be missing effects, they will be replaced within the 5.1/7.1 mix.
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
Beaucamper (07-13-2020)
Old 07-05-2020, 12:18 PM   #11
supervij supervij is online now
Senior Member
 
Apr 2011
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
13
1057
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreaFive View Post
Atmos is optimally obtained by ceiling speakers. It is possible to use "modules" to bounce the sound to the ceiling and then you (some soundbars offer this as well) but this generally is regarded as an inferior substitute (and it only works best if you have flat ceilings).
When you say flat ceilings, do you mean absolutely flat? I have that popcorn stuff on my ceiling, would those little things disperse the sound too much to be effective with upfiring speaker modules?

Last edited by supervij; 07-05-2020 at 03:50 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 01:30 PM   #12
AreaFive AreaFive is offline
Active Member
 
AreaFive's Avatar
 
May 2020
Florida
143
775
73
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by supervij View Post
When you say flat ceilings, do you mean absolutely flat? I have that popcorn stuff on my ceiling, would those little things disperse the sound too much to be effective with upfiring speaker modules?
No, it doesn't have to be perfectly smooth. It just needs to be flat (as in not a slanted or vaulted ceiling).
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
supervij (07-05-2020)
Old 07-05-2020, 03:51 PM   #13
supervij supervij is online now
Senior Member
 
Apr 2011
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
13
1057
Default

Ah yes, that’s also what I meant to say, that my ceiling isn’t slanted. Thanks!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2020, 05:12 PM   #14
roar roar is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
roar's Avatar
 
Feb 2010
Ontario, Canada
14
105
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ditcin View Post
If you have the film BOHEMIAM RHAPSODY go to the end, during the Live Aid concert - there's a moment when the camera goes under Freddie's piano and his playing moves into the Atmos channel.
My bet is without Atmos it moves into the surround channels as the camera moves under and by the piano..
I believe most of the Atmos effects will re-steered into surround .

Now with the re-mixed DARK CRYSTAL UHD into Atmos there is one Atmos effect of a crack of thunder that originally came from the front left - now it's been re-channeled into the front left Atmos.
The same is true for the sound of a fly in BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA, when Renfield grabs it.

In either case you won't be missing effects, they will be replaced within the 5.1/7.1 mix.
I don't think it gets replaced with the 5.1/7.1 mix, if you're receiver decodes Atmos it will play Atmos all the time, it is smart enough to utilize the speakers that are configured, so if you don't have height channels, no problem, as mentioned above you will still get an Atmos experience as opposed to the direct/distinct 5.1 or 7.1 channel experience.

I saw a Dolby video on one of those demo discs of sound engineers mixing their soundtrack and the Atmos is just a whole new way of delivering sound in 3D as opposed to the 5 or 7 distinct channels we are used to hearing. I should see if I can find it.

This wasn't it... but this get's the point across...


So regardless of number of channels, you get an Atmos experience, height channels makes it more immersive but isn't required to get a better experience than a standard Dolby TrueHD 5.1 or 7.1.

Though the usual caveats should a apply... a poorly mixed Atmos soundtrack can easily be trumped by a superior Dolby TrueHD mix... Nolan to my understanding refuses to do Atmos and I have never complained about any of his mixes... I do wish he'd try though

Last edited by roar; 07-08-2020 at 05:17 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2020, 07:33 PM   #15
slimdude slimdude is online now
Blu-ray Champion
 
slimdude's Avatar
 
Apr 2009
-
-
-
8
Default

For those who doesn't have height channel speakers connected to their Dolby Atmos receiver, the audio from the height channel will derive into the surround speakers, so there is no sound information lost, it just wouldn't be heard from above.

Last edited by slimdude; 07-15-2020 at 09:56 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2020, 10:55 PM   #16
FilmFreakosaurus FilmFreakosaurus is offline
Blu-ray Champion
 
Apr 2012
US of A
306
17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by roar View Post
I don't think it gets replaced with the 5.1/7.1 mix, if you're receiver decodes Atmos it will play Atmos all the time, it is smart enough to utilize the speakers that are configured, so if you don't have height channels, no problem, as mentioned above you will still get an Atmos experience as opposed to the direct/distinct 5.1 or 7.1 channel experience.

I saw a Dolby video on one of those demo discs of sound engineers mixing their soundtrack and the Atmos is just a whole new way of delivering sound in 3D as opposed to the 5 or 7 distinct channels we are used to hearing. I should see if I can find it.

This wasn't it... but this get's the point across...

YouTube

So regardless of number of channels, you get an Atmos experience, height channels makes it more immersive but isn't required to get a better experience than a standard Dolby TrueHD 5.1 or 7.1.

Though the usual caveats should a apply... a poorly mixed Atmos soundtrack can easily be trumped by a superior Dolby TrueHD mix... Nolan to my understanding refuses to do Atmos and I have never complained about any of his mixes... I do wish he'd try though

Without overhead or height speakers added into the system, you don't get Dolby Atmos or DTS: X... period. The whole point of those formats is 3D immersive audio. That isn't going to happen without the top layer of speakers.


Bounce "Enabled" add-on module speakers or soundbars are an absolute joke in my experience. They are marketing at and playing to the gullible... oh look, it says Atmos on the box, so it must produce Atmos audio.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 03:07 AM   #17
Geoff D Geoff D is offline
Blu-ray King
 
Geoff D's Avatar
 
Feb 2009
Swanage, Engerland
571
1859
5
20
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus View Post
Without overhead or height speakers added into the system, you don't get Dolby Atmos or DTS: X... period. The whole point of those formats is 3D immersive audio. That isn't going to happen without the top layer of speakers.


Bounce "Enabled" add-on module speakers or soundbars are an absolute joke in my experience. They are marketing at and playing to the gullible... oh look, it says Atmos on the box, so it must produce Atmos audio.
I think the "bounce" effect depends on the layout and acoustics of the room as much as it does on the speakers, I've tried a few upfirers and with my low artexed ceilings it just doesn't work, it kind of 'disembodied' the sound but didn't make it feel like it was coming from above, it didn't feel like it was coming from anywhere in particular.

People are absolutely correct that effects in the Atmos channels are redirected back to the regular speakers when playing the 7.1 bed in in conventional channel-based layout, as when I'd watch stuff with those virtually non-existent height channels it felt like the surrounds had also disappeared - precisely because so many of those surround effects were being directed into the utterly ineffective heights. So instead of Atmos expanding the sound field it was basically collapsing it, and it's one of the reasons why I gave up on the surround sound arms race. I briefly tried an "Atmos" sound bar as well and it was even worse. This isn't a slight on the tech itself, I know this is on me and I might even go back to it one day when circumstances permit, but for now....meh.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 08:07 AM   #18
oddbox83 oddbox83 is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
Sep 2013
UK
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus View Post
Without overhead or height speakers added into the system, you don't get Dolby Atmos or DTS: X... period. The whole point of those formats is 3D immersive audio. That isn't going to happen without the top layer of speakers.


Bounce "Enabled" add-on module speakers or soundbars are an absolute joke in my experience. They are marketing at and playing to the gullible... oh look, it says Atmos on the box, so it must produce Atmos audio.
I disagree. My "enabled" speakers do create a 3D bubble. It's more diffuse than real overheads, but it works together with the other speakers to create a sound field where it sounds like it's coming from all around, not just a set of speakers. At the end of the day, the "enabled" speakers are still extra speakers, and their upwards firing placement still raises the plane from horizontal surround to a more 3D effect.

The quality of the speakers and the audio processing may be more important than otherwise. I know soundbars by their nature can struggle with an open soundscape regardless of upfirers because they are all mushed in close together. My ZF9 in the loft does sound very front and back and sonically limited vs. the separate system with upfirers in the lounge which can great an immersive feel even with just a 2.0 output. But even though the ZF9 doesn't have any upfirers at all, it does a good job of opening up the sound vertically just my using accoustic trickery. Toggling the effect on and off tells me all I need to know about how convincing it is (ie not very, but it is an improvement nevertheless).

Just having the Atmos processing as well even if the result is a fold down into horizontal speakers can help create a fold down more accurate to the users particular setup since the placement isn't fixed in the mix like it would be in the 7.1 core without the metadata being read and interpreted.

But yeah, this Atmos snobbery isn't quite correct. I know I'm making compromises with both setups, but I also know I am getting some benefit. It's real. Geoff makes a good point though. Anyone wanting Atmos needs to research the pros and cons of each system and how they work in particular room makeups. Which is exactly why I went with the ZF9 with Atmos processing but no actual discrete Atmos speakers for the loft, as upfirers would have been a total waste of time with the sloping ceilings and I wasn't having a separate system up there as overkill.

I'm not the sort of person who always thinks more is always better anyway. For example I ditched 7.1 because rather than creating a more immersive surround in my lounge, it actually just mushed the rear soundscape up. 5.1.2 sounds much better in my room. Those extra rears are a waste of time if you don't have the room to place them well. My experience of 7.1 is probably similar to Geoff's with Atmos upfirers. It just did not work for my room layout and more was ruining the soundscape.

I want to finish by mentioning just how important the actual mix is as well. I've heard 5.1 discs on my system that are more convincing and immersive than Atmos mixes. Pan's Labyrinth on the original Blu-ray gave more convincing Atmos effect through up-mixing than many actual Atmos discs. I know I've read before in these forms how remarkable some have found the sound mix on Pan's Labyrinth.

Last edited by oddbox83; 07-15-2020 at 08:33 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
Geoff D (07-18-2020)
Old 07-20-2020, 11:34 PM   #19
roar roar is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
roar's Avatar
 
Feb 2010
Ontario, Canada
14
105
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus View Post
Without overhead or height speakers added into the system, you don't get Dolby Atmos or DTS: X... period. The whole point of those formats is 3D immersive audio. That isn't going to happen without the top layer of speakers.


Bounce "Enabled" add-on module speakers or soundbars are an absolute joke in my experience. They are marketing at and playing to the gullible... oh look, it says Atmos on the box, so it must produce Atmos audio.
I hear your opinion loud and clear, but your opinion won't stop Atmos sound through 5 channels from sounding different/better than Dolby TrueHD through those same 5 channels. I'd agree with your sentiment of whats the point if you don't add the height channels but that doesn't make your opinion fact.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2020, 02:05 AM   #20
Geoff D Geoff D is offline
Blu-ray King
 
Geoff D's Avatar
 
Feb 2009
Swanage, Engerland
571
1859
5
20
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by roar View Post
I hear your opinion loud and clear, but your opinion won't stop Atmos sound through 5 channels from sounding different/better than Dolby TrueHD through those same 5 channels. I'd agree with your sentiment of whats the point if you don't add the height channels but that doesn't make your opinion fact.
Back when I had an AVR I wondered about this very point and spent a while comparing compared the 'Atmos' 7.1 fold-down to the straight TrueHD 7.1 on several titles. My conclusion? They sounded exactly the same.
  Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Home Theater > Home Theater General Discussion


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:04 PM.