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Old 05-10-2020, 04:52 PM   #701
Storm49 Storm49 is offline
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Thanks for the reply. Blu-Ray.com does rate the video of the 2017 higher than the 2013 and no rating for the 2012. However, all the criticisms of the "movie" doesn't say which version. Is everyone upset about the April 2020 version? I'm always looking for people's comments about new releases to see if it is worth upgrading my older movie.

Thanks again!
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Old 05-10-2020, 04:58 PM   #702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm49 View Post
Thanks for the reply. Blu-Ray.com does rate the video of the 2017 higher than the 2013 and no rating for the 2012. However, all the criticisms of the "movie" doesn't say which version. Is everyone upset about the April 2020 version? I'm always looking for people's comments about new releases to see if it is worth upgrading my older movie.

Thanks again!
This thread has been entirely about the 2020 disc for several pages. The 2012, 2013 and 2017 releases are all the exact same disc.
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Old 05-10-2020, 05:00 PM   #703
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Thank you very much!
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Old 05-10-2020, 09:20 PM   #704
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The 2012, 2013 and 2017 releases only exist because of the bizarre agreement Paramount briefly had with Warner Bros to distribute their catalog titles.

The three discs are identical.

The 2012 is the original Paramount release, the 2013 is a repackaged re-release of that disc by Warner Bros, the 2017 is a re-repackaged re-re-release of that same disc, yet again, back in Paramount packaging, after the Warner deal expired. The disc itself never changed.
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Old 05-10-2020, 09:33 PM   #705
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Thank you, James.
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Old 05-10-2020, 09:35 PM   #706
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Thanks to all of you in this thread for saving me some money with regard to this release!

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Old 05-10-2020, 09:41 PM   #707
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How does a studio come out with a premier line of newly restored movies and some of them come out apparently beautiful and others are totally messed up?

Do they have different teams restoring different movies and then there's no oversight in double-checking whether the individual teams actually did a proper job?
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Old 05-10-2020, 09:50 PM   #708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Furmanek View Post
Good grief, that amount of cropping and image manipulation is unnecessary and absolutely ridiculous.

You work with the full width of the exposed image and matte to the intended presentation ratio and don't fool with it.

VV productions had some exhibition flexibility but were ideally presented in 1.85:1. This was known to the filmmakers during principal photography.
Especially since Hitchcock made To Catch a Thief and The Trouble with Harry back to back. Same studio, DP, format, film stock, etc.

Universal's Blu-ray for Harry is gorgeous, too:



What's puzzling is that The Court Jester looks flat-out beautiful in the new 4K restoration (only available via streaming right now) and it was made the same year.
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Old 05-10-2020, 09:54 PM   #709
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Originally Posted by koberulz View Post
I'm looking at the exact same screenshots you're talking about...
Doesn't mean your monitor is calibrated properly, though. On proper monitors, it's not "blanket purple" in the slightest, although there is a slight magenta push. Still far and away better than the new monstrosity.
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Old 05-10-2020, 10:33 PM   #710
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This type of transfer is what happens when studios hand over their crown jewels to apathetic and unqualified individuals. It's an unfortunate reality that many people working in this field seemingly haven't received the proper training to work with modern restoration tools.

Those familiar with the treatment of classic Fox titles like The King & I, Wild River, Desk Set, and Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter? (among others) on blu have seen the handy work of exactly one man in New York implementing his bizarre preferences without regard for accuracy or integrity over and over again. His knack for letting colors fall wherever they want and forcing a massive teal/cyan push over the entire image has ruined the look of many great films. Often his color timing has been flat out rejected by clients but he still gets work. Why?

I don't know who was involved with this particular monstrosity or, worse yet, who signed off on it but my contacts at Paramount are looking into it. I live about half a mile from the studio and in better times would visit certain friends directly for lunch and post production talk. Unfortunately that's not a possibility right now due to obvious reasons.
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Old 05-10-2020, 10:36 PM   #711
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Already returned
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Old 05-11-2020, 12:25 AM   #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisTylerBlack View Post
This type of transfer is what happens when studios hand over their crown jewels to apathetic and unqualified individuals. It's an unfortunate reality that many people working in this field seemingly haven't received the proper training to work with modern restoration tools.

Those familiar with the treatment of classic Fox titles like The King & I, Wild River, Desk Set, and Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter? (among others) on blu have seen the handy work of exactly one man in New York implementing his bizarre preferences without regard for accuracy or integrity over and over again. His knack for letting colors fall wherever they want and forcing a massive teal/cyan push over the entire image has ruined the look of many great films. Often his color timing has been flat out rejected by clients but he still gets work. Why?

I don't know who was involved with this particular monstrosity or, worse yet, who signed off on it but my contacts at Paramount are looking into it. I live about half a mile from the studio and in better times would visit certain friends directly for lunch and post production talk. Unfortunately that's not a possibility right now due to obvious reasons.
Has there been any word about Fox quietly fixing those teal-pushed restorations the way they did for The King and I? What's funny is outside of the Blu-ray itself, it's like the King of Cyan restoration never existed. The corrected one is now on all digital platforms (except Amazon which uses the 2006 one), is used for DCPs (I've seen it twice theatrically now), and is used whenever Fox airs it on their exclusive network. Was King and I only fixed because of the TCM Classic Film Festival back in 2016? I always suspected that they were the ones who requested a redo since the cyan one would be an embarrassment for them on the big screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert Souse View Post
What's puzzling is that The Court Jester looks flat-out beautiful in the new 4K restoration (only available via streaming right now) and it was made the same year.
Thanks so much for that heads up! For a while, the HD version of Court Jester on Amazon was the old master, and it really didn't hold up well at all. I just sampled a bit, and it does look incredible. I'll definitely be watching it in full later in the week.
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Old 05-11-2020, 03:21 AM   #713
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If this title does get a recall and new restoration, you might consider suggesting they restore the original Perspecta Stereophonic Sound.

They won’t know how to do it so kindly send them to the 3-D Film Archive!
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Old 05-11-2020, 04:41 AM   #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Furmanek View Post
If this title does get a recall and new restoration, you might consider suggesting they restore the original Perspecta Stereophonic Sound.

They won’t know how to do it so kindly send them to the 3-D Film Archive!
And I am going to suggest they let you do Hondo (1953) as well!

[Show spoiler]
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Old 05-11-2020, 05:19 AM   #715
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Why?

Why would they do that to the film?
It's a peculiar debacle indeed. I mean, it's not like it would be swarming in grain (4K... VistaVision... WTF) - it most likely came during an interim from the same destructive vermin that took pot shots at Grease, only this time they went all out.

Paramount Presents: A paradox to perplex the masses.
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Old 05-11-2020, 11:23 AM   #716
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This a damn shame, glad I didn't pre-order this.
It might cause the Paramount home video department to retreat back into their cave if the criticisms hit home. All those missing on Blu titles will remain missing...
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Old 05-11-2020, 01:29 PM   #717
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HONDO is restored and ready to go, they just need to secure the license from Gretchen Wayne and release it. Gretchen told me she offered the 3-D master to them in 2012 and they weren’t interested.

The missing jewels in the Paramount 3-D crown are MONEY FROM HOME (Martin & Lewis) and FLIGHT TO TANGIER (Jack Palance, Joan Fontaine.)

Both were filmed with the massive Technicolor Dynoptic 3-D camera rig exposing six rolls of film (YCM left/right) for each take!
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Old 05-11-2020, 03:21 PM   #718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTRodaba2468 View Post
There is precedent for it happening, since Paramount did it with Gladiator. But truthfully, I don't see it happening. I just got back from the UPS Store after returning my copy. If they do, in fact, redo this release minus the DNR, I'll buy another copy. Unless that happens, I'll stick with the older release.

I'm not writing off the whole line. I've been waiting for Pretty In Pink on Blu-Ray for years. But between this and continuously dropping extras from previous releases (not to mention only three new-to-Blu-ray titles out of all the announced titles so far), I don't exactly have high hopes.
Yes, true about that precedent, but I think they have dropped significantly in the expertise department where now they would probably say huh? what? if anything at all. They need to fix the day-for-night scene too.
I did think the new Fatal Attraction mostly looks and sounds fine.
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Old 05-11-2020, 04:19 PM   #719
TravisTylerBlack TravisTylerBlack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramble Tamble-TAN View Post
It's a peculiar debacle indeed. I mean, it's not like it would be swarming in grain (4K... VistaVision... WTF) - it most likely came during an interim from the same destructive vermin that took pot shots at Grease, only this time they went all out.
Grease would have had an even greater amount of processing applied to it had certain objections gone unheeded. The grain reduction, among other things, is lamentable but it’s not a worst case scenario. Grease 2 on the other hand has a gorgeously organic transfer, as I’m sure you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Furmanek View Post
HONDO is restored and ready to go, they just need to secure the license from Gretchen Wayne and release it. Gretchen told me she offered the 3-D master to them in 2012 and they weren’t interested.
KINO would give Hondo the 2-disc red carpet treatment. No doubt it would be a best seller as well considering the wide, ongoing demand for it among the 3D community. But yeah I’m most likely stating the obvious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mad Kiwi View Post
Has there been any word about Fox quietly fixing those teal-pushed restorations the way they did for The King and I? What's funny is outside of the Blu-ray itself, it's like the King of Cyan restoration never existed. The corrected one is now on all digital platforms (except Amazon which uses the 2006 one), is used for DCPs (I've seen it twice theatrically now), and is used whenever Fox airs it on their exclusive network. Was King and I only fixed because of the TCM Classic Film Festival back in 2016? I always suspected that they were the ones who requested a redo since the cyan one would be an embarrassment for them on the big screen.
Honestly I’m unsure of which transfers were in the process of being reassessed prior to the Disney deal. Workflow volume often makes back-tracking to fix things on “non-priority” titles very difficult. Additionally, a few weeks into the pandemic, my main insider friend sadly lost her job with the company that Fox uses to produce many of their disc. That aside, from what I’ve come to understand King & I was fixed because A) It’s still a popular title with mainstream viewers and B) The right person with influence cared enough to point out what a botch job the transfer was to people with enough authority to green light a re-do on the timing.

The complaints about the existing blu-ray were pretty much heard loud and clear from what I can tell, but sadly Fox didn’t think it was worth authoring a new disc when it came time to for the individual release outside of the R&H box set. They also continued to employ the same persona non grata in New York who was responsible for the disaster in the first place. Though, for what it’s worth, he has was reprimanded and did, eventually, somewhat dial back the blue push.

Last edited by TravisTylerBlack; 05-11-2020 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 05-11-2020, 04:52 PM   #720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drush9999 View Post
This a damn shame, glad I didn't pre-order this.
It might cause the Paramount home video department to retreat back into their cave if the criticisms hit home. All those missing on Blu titles will remain missing...
That's my concern as well.
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