Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

That's where we differ. If I am paying for something, I want something to show for that. No way am I handing over good money so that a movie may be taken from me or made unavailable in the future. Also, if I care about a film enough, I want it in the very best A/V. That is Blu-Ray and soon (for me) UHD Blu-Ray.

That's fair. We're just gonna have to differ on it. I care about the best picture quality when it comes to my absolutes. And for those, I have that area taken care of.

I am content with the picture quality of digital downloads/streaming. Sure, it ain't the absolute best but we lived in the DVD era for a long while and digital downloads/streaming beats DVD.

I can live with that.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

Still frames show the issues that you have referred to Steedeel. I hope you are not saying that compression issues can't be seen in screen caps, because that would be silly, and I could prove this wrong instantly.

Even bluray can show minuscule compression from frame to frame that is virtually undetectable to the human eye. Anything that is compressed normally will. The real test is movement. That is my point. Of course I realise frames can show the problems we discussed but I still think that is a flawed method of reference.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

That's fair. We're just gonna have to differ on it. I care about the best picture quality when it comes to my absolutes. And for those, I have that area taken care of.

I am content with the picture quality of digital downloads/streaming. Sure, it ain't the absolute best but we lived in the DVD era for a long while and digital downloads/streaming beats DVD.

I can live with that.

Well, you say that but sometimes streaming can look sub -YouTube quality. That is not always the fault of the consumer either. Connection problems can be out of our control.

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Well, you say that but sometimes streaming can look sub -YouTube quality. That is not always the fault of the consumer either. Connection problems can be out of our control.

Very true...which is why I download all my digital purchases to where I don't have to worry about streaming if I don't have to. Load it up on my iDevice. Connect it to the TV and no connection problems that harm picture quality.

Because everything in my house is wired instead of wifi, I rarely have picture quality problems when it comes to the connection.

I'm lucky. My Playstation 3 and my iPhone are the greatest film delivery devices I've ever owned. I'm solidly secure no matter which route I take when it comes to watching films.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

Very true...which is why I download all my digital purchases to where I don't have to worry about streaming if I don't have to. Load it up on my iDevice. Connect it to the TV and no connection problems that harm picture quality.

Because everything in my house is wired instead of wifi, I rarely have picture quality problems when it comes to the connection.

I'm lucky. My Playstation 3 and my iPhone are the greatest film delivery devices I've ever owned. I'm solidly secure no matter which route I take when it comes to watching films.

But you are the minority. Besides, the industry seems to be stuck on streaming rather than download for some reason.

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

But you are the minority. Besides, the industry seems to be stuck on streaming rather than download for some reason.

Because of money. It's cheaper to deliver digitally than it is on physical. Because films and marketing costs have gone up and up, this is a way to recoup some of that. It's just cheaper than packaging physical media. Cover art, discs, shipping costs, etc...

Yeah, digital isn't cheap either to maintain but it is cheaper than the physical costs.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

Because of money. It's cheaper to deliver digitally than it is on physical. Because films and marketing costs have gone up and up, this is a way to recoup some of that. It's just cheaper than packaging physical media. Cover art, discs, shipping costs, etc...

Yeah, digital isn't cheap either to maintain but it is cheaper than the physical costs.

Well i am in this for the long haul. Maybe you guys are right and this will allow ever improving quality and decades of film enjoyment. My concerns remain though.
I am sticking with disc. The collecting element along with the quality is just too much of a draw for me.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Even bluray can show minuscule compression from frame to frame that is virtually undetectable to the human eye. Anything that is compressed normally will. The real test is movement. That is my point.

"Even Blu-ray". Plenty of Blu-ray's have poor compression, that's one purpose of a site like caps-a-holic.com, to check for this, and to compare one Blu-ray version of the same movie to another, to see which is superior. Sure, some of these issues are very hard to detect in motion, that's the point. Screen caps can show you problems that otherwise could easily be missed. There are members here that are claiming that 1080p online services are equal to 1080p Blu-ray, this is where screen caps can be very useful, they can show them discrepancies in little nooks and crannies that they are having difficulty seeing themselves when in motion. The streaming fanboys are right when they say that the quality of 1080p streamed content is getting close to 1080p Blu-ray - if you have a great internet plan. Therefore, we are getting to the stage where things that are harder to detect by the human eye are having to be pointed out, so that it can be seen which version is superior.

You mentioned fast movement in one of your previous posts. If a screen cap is taken from a scene where there is fast movement, if done correctly it will capture the source accurately, and will show any issues in that particular frame, exactly as you would see it at that split second if you were watching it in motion.

I just went through your Blu-ray collection, and randomly selected Heat to use as an example. You own the Warner Brothers UK disc, and I own the Japanese Universal disc (I also own the WB disc), the Japanese version I own has superior PQ to the version you own, take a look:

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go...=27731&i=0&l=0

It's not really about whether you agree or not, or if you think screen caps are a flawed method, it's an objective fact, and the screen caps show this. It displays somewhat of a lack of knowledge if you disagree with this.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Of course I realise frames can show the problems we discussed but I still think that is a flawed method of reference.

There are people on this site that have more knowledge about this than you, that disagree with you, some of whom work in the industry and are highly respected. I don't mean any offense, but since you "work with adults with special needs" for a living, your expertise would not be as highly regarded (by myself or others) as some of the members here that earn their living in this industry

Anyway... I really have no interest in discussing this with you further, so perhaps we should just agree to disagree, and leave it that.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

"Even Blu-ray". Plenty of Blu-ray's have poor compression, that's one purpose of a site like caps-a-holic.com, to check for this, and to compare one Blu-ray version of the same movie to another, to see which is superior. Sure, some of these issues are very hard to detect in motion, that's the point. Screen caps can show you problems that otherwise could easily be missed. There are members here that are claiming that 1080p online services are equal to 1080p Blu-ray, this is where screen caps can be very useful, they can show them discrepancies in little nooks and crannies that they are having difficulty seeing themselves when in motion. The streaming fanboys are right when they say that the quality of 1080p streamed content is getting close to 1080p Blu-ray - if you have a great internet plan. Therefore, we are getting to the stage where things that are harder to detect by the human eye are having to be pointed out, so that it can be seen which version is superior.

You mentioned fast movement in one of your previous posts. If a screen cap is taken from a scene where there is fast movement, if done correctly it will capture the source accurately, and will show any issues in that particular frame, exactly as you would see it at that split second if you were watching it in motion.

I just went through your Blu-ray collection, and randomly selected Heat to use as an example. You own the Warner Brothers UK disc, and I own the Japanese Universal disc (I also own the WB disc), the Japanese version I own has superior PQ to the version you own, take a look:

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go...=27731&i=0&l=0

It's not really about whether you agree or not, or if you think screen caps are a flawed method, it's an objective fact, and the screen caps show this. It displays somewhat of a lack of knowledge if you disagree with this.



There are people on this site that have more knowledge about this than you, that disagree with you, some of whom work in the industry and are highly respected. I don't mean any offense, but since you "work with adults with special needs" for a living, your expertise would not be as highly regarded (by myself or others) as some of the members here that earn their living in this industry

Anyway... I really have no interest in discussing this with you further, so perhaps we should just agree to disagree, and leave it that.

I have no interest in how highly regarded my opinion is. Having watched films all my life I trust my own eyes, no one elses.

Anyway, if you have no interest in discussing it further, not much point in attempting to justify my stance anyway. As a straight talkng, quite blunt member to another, see you in the next life.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I have no interest in how highly regarded my opinion is. Having watched films all my life I trust my own eyes, no one elses.

Anyway, if you have no interest in discussing it further, not much point in attempting to justify my stance anyway. As a straight talkng, quite blunt member to another, see you in the next life.

Since you decided to respond, rather than leaving it at my previous post, I thought I would leave you with another example of an inferior disc you own - in your collection you have the UK version of A.I. Artificial Intelligence listed, the U.S. version is superior:

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go...=43493&i=0&l=0

Again, I own both versions, so it's not just the caps that are doing the talking, "having watched films all my life I trust my own eyes"

[alchav21]

Okay, things are getting kind of boring but Steedeel and Cevolution kind of killed this discussion on Physical Copies or Digital. One thinks Little Kindergarten Kids are going to be watching everything on their Watch, and the other watches everything with a magnifying glass to pick up all the flaws. So if everyone wants a Physical Copy, why have my sales of Blu-ray Movies gone down on eBay. Then on the other side, UV Stores selling Digital Copies keeps going up. Could this be a trend, and people just don't want Disc anymore or just don't want to wait? Like I said Streaming Home Theaters are here now, and Cinema is a thing of the Past!

[V40LLY]

I agree with you 100%

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Okay, things are getting kind of boring but Steedeel and Cevolution kind of killed this discussion on Physical Copies or Digital. One thinks Little Kindergarten Kids are going to be watching everything on their Watch, and the other watches everything with a magnifying glass to pick up all the flaws. So if everyone wants a Physical Copy, why have my sales of Blu-ray Movies gone down on eBay. Then on the other side, UV Stores selling Digital Copies keeps going up. Could this be a trend, and people just don't want Disc anymore or just don't want to wait? Like I said Streaming Home Theaters are here now, and Cinema is a thing of the Past!

What has this got to do with anything? I don't care about what everyone else is doing, you go be a part of that trend, and be a follower if you like. Your beloved way of watching movies may very well be gaining popularity amongst the masses, and may surpass the quality of physical media one day, but this doesn't change the fact that it is currently inferior to physical media, and that you're paying for something that is presently second best. My point has always simply been that online services aren't the same or superior like you're claiming, nothing more, and since you are not willing to prove your claims, then you've lost the argument, simple. Therefore there is nothing more to say. The decline of disc sales and some people not wanting discs anymore is insignificant to me, I have built myself a physical media collection that suits my needs, and it doesn't require me to be a slave to the Internet to be able to enjoy it.

Btw, people still have to wait months for digital copies to be released after the theatrical run (they only hit the market weeks before the physical media versions), many people that don't want to wait, pirate, long before the digital/UV copy becomes available.

Also, what does the cinema have to do with anything I've said? I barely go to the cinemas anymore.

Considering you've stated that you think Rocky's entrance level gear is good, I can only assume that the gear you own must be of similar quality?

Originally Posted by V40LLY

I agree with you 100%

What a surprise, one of Blu-ray.com's known online digital distribution fanboys, and also one of the sites current biggest trolls, agrees.

[Rocket Richard]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

It's cheaper to deliver digitally than it is on physical. Because films and marketing costs have gone up and up, this is a way to recoup some of that. It's just cheaper than packaging physical media. Cover art, discs, shipping costs, etc...

Originally Posted by alchav21

So if everyone wants a Physical Copy, why have my sales of Blu-ray Movies gone down on eBay. Then on the other side, UV Stores selling Digital Copies keeps going up. Could this be a trend, and people just don't want Disc anymore or just don't want to wait?

I think streaming/digital is the future. Think about how many times you bought/sold your collection from VHS to DVD, then Blu Ray came along, now 4k and next is 8k looming in the wings.

Same thing with CD’s. Going the way of the 8-Track!

[V40LLY]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

What a surprise, one of Blu-ray.com's known online digital distribution fanboys, and also one of the sites current biggest trolls, agrees.

Who are the other trolls?

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

I think streaming/digital is the future. Think about how many times you bought/sold your collection from VHS to DVD, then Blu Ray came along, now 4k and next is 8k looming in the wings.

Same thing with CD’s. Going the way of the 8-Track!

What about people that own movies in HDX in Vudu and now some of those movies are now in UHD in Vudu. Wouldn't they have to rebuy the movie in Vudu in UHD format if they wanted it in UHD. Plus they are stuck with their HDX version because they can't sell their digital movies. I read on some forum that they would have to buy the UHD version at full price even if they owned the HDX version, so going digital because of not wanting to keep upgrading to newer formats is not a valid reason to go digital in my opinion. At least with physical, you have the option to resell a blu-ray version of a movie you own and use the proceeds towards the 4k blu-ray version of the same movie once the 4k blu-ray version is out.

[V40LLY]

Now that's just being cheap ^

[Rocket Richard]

I’m curious how many times people watch their Blu-rays, or is it just more of a collector thing.

I rarely buy Blu-rays now, cause I might have watched a movie, lets say 2-3 times at most, and it might be years before I even touch it again, so by then, we are into a new format. Then the collection starts all over again.

I’m not trying to insult collectors, it’s just better for me not collecting.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

I’m curious how many times people watch their Blu-rays, or is it just more of a collector thing.

I rarely buy Blu-rays now, cause I might have watched a movie, lets say 2-3 times at most, and it might be years before I even touch it again, so by then, we are into a new format. Then the collection starts all over again.

I’m not trying to insult collectors, it’s just better for me not collecting.

It's a good job you joined a forum where the majority of people like collecting then, isnt it?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Okay, things are getting kind of boring but Steedeel and Cevolution kind of killed this discussion on Physical Copies or Digital. One thinks Little Kindergarten Kids are going to be watching everything on their Watch, and the other watches everything with a magnifying glass to pick up all the flaws. So if everyone wants a Physical Copy, why have my sales of Blu-ray Movies gone down on eBay. Then on the other side, UV Stores selling Digital Copies keeps going up. Could this be a trend, and people just don't want Disc anymore or just don't want to wait? Like I said Streaming Home Theaters are here now, and Cinema is a thing of the Past!

You say that like you are glad. It will be a sad sad day when/if the cinema ever dies.