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Old 07-10-2019, 11:50 PM   #1
Jackson_H Jackson_H is offline
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Default Basilisk: The Kouga Ninja Scrolls on Blu-ray

Hope it's ok to make a new thread for this; I haven't seen discussion on it online (guess most people don't care or not enough people have noticed yet)

I recently bought the first Basilisk series on Blu-ray from Funimation; pre-ordered it months ago and it shipped recently (July 2)

This is the "Classics" release.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Basil...lu-ray/243550/

The show was previously released on Blu-ray in 2009

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Basil...-Blu-ray/6688/

and in 2015 as a Blu-ray/DVD Combo pack under the former "Anime Classics" label

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Basil...lu-ray/132290/


Pre-ordering things is apparently a huge risk these days because if there are any picture, audio or packaging issues if may take months or years for a company like Funimation to fix the problems (and sometimes they don't) which is why I'm glad I held off pre-ordering Dragon Ball Super: Broly

I bought the Classics 2019 Blu-ray because I already owned the show on DVD (so the 2015 combo pack would give me extra DVD discs I don't want) and the 2009 BD-only release is out of print.

More importantly as a fan of both the English dub and original Japanese audio (one of the first anime I ever watched and bought) I was disappointed that the 2009 and 2015 Blu-ray releases only had lossy Dolby Digital 2.0 audio for the Japanese track.

The 2019 Blu-ray however promised a new lossless Dolby TrueHD 2.0 Japanese track plus a third Dolby TrueHD 2.0 English track (Dolby TrueHD 5.1 English seems good enough but I'm not complaining about options)

As you see on Funimation's website the Main Feature Audio states:

Dolby TrueHD: English 2.0
Dolby TrueHD: English 5.1
Dolby TrueHD: Japanese 2.0


https://www.funimation.com/shop/home...-bd-blr-00403/


However after receiving my copy and testing the discs I was disappointed to learn that there are only 2 audio tracks; the exact same as the 2009 and 2015 releases which were Dolby TrueHD 5.1 English and Dolby Digital 2.0 Japanese


False advertising or just incompetence?


I assumed Funimation would press new discs to include the 3rd English audio track and upgrade the quality of the Japanese audio but apparently being hopeful was silly of me.

Pretty sure Funimation reused the existing stock/template from the 2009 discs because the logo intro on each disc still says

Funimation Entertainment
A Navarre Corporation Company

https://youtu.be/izu0Qmmwyf4?t=95


and all trailers are for old DVD releases; nothing recent or upcoming


Doing some research here's some history of this anime on Blu-ray.

Funimation did their own Blu-ray release for it before Japan did.

Since HD materials didn't exist I suppose the 2009 release can be excused for not having lossless Japanese audio.

However in 2010 Sony Pictures (and studio Gonzo) released a limited edition Blu-ray in Japan which had lossless LPCM 2.0 Japanese audio

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Basilisk-Blu-ray/106808/


A fan I spoke to who owns the 2010 Japanese release told me the picture quality of Funimation's and the Japanese releases aren't perfect but apparently Funimation's remaster is the lesser of two evils

Site reviewed the 2009 Funimation BD (3.5/5 for video quality)

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Basil...y/6688/#Review


Funimation had a chance to improve their Japanese audio for their 2015 release (5 years later) but apparently no...


Didn't stop the 2014 French release and 2016 German release from having lossless Japanese audio

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Basil...lu-ray/118198/

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Basil...lu-ray/183315/


In 2017 Basilisk was re-released on Blu-ray as a standard edition for Japanese fans and I believe it's the same as the limited edition 2010 release (lossless LPCM 2.0 Japanese audio)

http://www.gonzo.co.jp/2017/10/04/3179/

Quote:
リニアPCM(2.0ch)

So either Funimation has wasted 9 years of not choosing to upgrade the audio despite having 2 opportunities to do so (2015 and 2019 releases) or there was miscommunication in their video production department.

Website's product page and even the info on the back of the Blu-ray case says

Dolby TrueHD: English 2.0
Dolby TrueHD: English 5.1
Dolby TrueHD: Japanese 2.0

Also could've used to the opportunity to get rid of the banding, aliasing that the 2009 review noted (though apparently aren't very noticeable unless you're concentrating on them specifically) 2015 release maybe fixed those issues but if the same discs were reused back then as well I'm assuming the 2019 release still has them too.


I contacted Funimation on their support page but assuming they receive hundreds of emails daily I wouldn't be surprised if my message gets ignored

https://help.funimation.com/s/contactsupport

Maybe the issue can get more attention if more fans emailed also or @ them on social media?

https://twitter.com/FUNimation

https://www.facebook.com/funimation/


I think feedback@funimation.com is still valid

When Funimation set up their disc replacement program for Re:ZERO Part 1

https://www.funimation.com/blog/2019...ement-program/

Fans were asked to email funimationstore@funimation.com


If Funimation plans to fix this mistake and send out new discs eventually I will keep my copy. If not I may have to consider returning it to the retailer I bought it from to get a refund before I'm no longer eligible.

Last edited by Jackson_H; 07-11-2019 at 12:23 AM.
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:57 PM   #2
professorwho professorwho is offline
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FUnimation won't do a single thing. They simply used the stockholder template of a "normal" release and just filled in the blanks in some areas. As a result, they listed a Japanese TrueHD 2.0 track when there was none.

They won't fix anything. The only reason they did for Re:Zero is because us hardcore fans were super pi$$ed and it caught wind of the UK and AU distributors who pushed for fixed discs because Madman and Anime Limited care to some extent about picture quality.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:16 AM   #3
Jackson_H Jackson_H is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by professorwho View Post
FUnimation won't do a single thing. They simply used the stockholder template of a "normal" release and just filled in the blanks in some areas. As a result, they listed a Japanese TrueHD 2.0 track when there was none.

They won't fix anything. The only reason they did for Re:Zero is because us hardcore fans were super pi$$ed and it caught wind of the UK and AU distributors who pushed for fixed discs because Madman and Anime Limited care to some extent about picture quality.
I'll wait a couple more weeks for an email reply, if not I'll get my money back.

Even if the Japanese TrueHD 2.0 track was an empty promise (lie) I noticed that at least the upcoming 2019 Blu-ray "Essentials" re-releases of Claymore and Witchblade were more upfront. Their Funimation store pages state Dolby Digital 2.0 Japanese unlike Basilisk's Classics Dolby TrueHD 2.0 Japanese

Just like the failure/laziness to get better audio when it's been available for years for Basilisk, I recently found out from another fan that Funmation could've done the same for Claymore and Witchblade

2013 Japanese Claymore Blu-ray
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Claym...lu-ray/183490/

Japanese LPCM 2.0

Japanese Claymore Blu-ray also looks like 1080p instead of Funimation's 1080i


2017 Japanese Witchblade TV Anniversary on SD Blu-ray
http://www.fwinc.co.jp/goods/34803/

Quote:
日本語/リニアPCM

Last edited by Jackson_H; 07-11-2019 at 01:51 AM.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:26 AM   #4
professorwho professorwho is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson_H View Post
I'll wait a couple more weeks for an email reply, if not I'll get my money back.

Even if the Japanese TrueHD 2.0 track was an empty promise (lie) I noticed that at least the upcoming 2019 Blu-ray "Essentials" re-releases of Claymore and Witchblade were more upfront. Their Funimation store pages state Dolby Digital 2.0 Japanese unlike Basilisk's Classics Dolby TrueHD 2.0 Japanese

Just like the failure/laziness to get better audio when it's been available for years for Basilisk, I recently found out from another fan that Funmation could've done the same for Claymore and Witchblade]
Here's the thing- FUNimation is a business. They are probably the cheapest around. Now, look at re-releases of shows that were originally released in 2 parts now in 1 set: they use the exact same discs. Now, when Sentai does that, they re-author the discs by reducing them to 3 discs with zero quality loss, and occasionally a jump in quality by re-encoding the video.

To my knowledge, FUNi has only once re-encoded a BD for a re-release: Samurai Champloo.

See, this, along with Claymore and Witchblade were from their early days when they chose to do lossy audio for the Japanese audio mixes, and gimped Japanese 5.1 mixes when they existed (FMA Conqueror of Shamballa) in favour of their dubs. These old discs sold well and if they're going to re-release them, why change a thing? It costs more time and money than they're willing to put in, so they do nothing.

It seems to me like you're not as familiar with their business tactics, so I seriously wouldn't expect ANYTHING from them unless you got like the wrong discs in a set or something- and even then they may take forever to deal with, or may not at all.

Bottom line: you've set your expectations too high for FUNimation.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:34 AM   #5
Jackson_H Jackson_H is offline
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I don't know the full details but didn't their Code Geass season 2 Blu-ray originally have mono audio despite Funimation insisting it wasn't?

Eventually they caved in and sent out replacement discs or did they screw fans over and only fix the audio for the complete series re-release of both seasons? (requiring fans to re-buy it)

Also according to this edit the original first print of Afro Samurai: Resurrection was lossy Dolby Digital

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Afro-...-Blu-ray/3151/


Also off topic but this is the second case I've experienced where the product info on the back of the case doesn't match the actual discs

Yu-Gi-Oh! The Dark Side of Dimensions Blu-ray originally had dubtitles only IIRC but then new discs were released to include a separate and proper subtitle track.

The back of the case also lists Dolby Digital audio despite the disc having DTS-HD MA

The running time is listed as only 89 minutes when it's actually 131 minutes

Last edited by Jackson_H; 07-11-2019 at 01:51 AM.
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Old 07-11-2019, 01:31 AM   #6
Lambadelta Lambadelta is online now
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Code Geass was actually a technical issue with the BD, and ofc FUNi tried to deny it they didn't want to pay to remaster the release, and then ship out free replacement discs.

While the thing your talking about in this thread is obviously just a misprint on the site/back sheet
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Old 07-11-2019, 01:50 AM   #7
cfx cfx is online now
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I don't know as much as some here but this is how it is with Funimation. Rereleases use the same discs. Period. The only times they would fix something is the type of technical issue that makes discs not work in players, etc.

Expecting redone discs just because the Japanese have something better available is just going to lead to disappointment.
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Old 07-11-2019, 10:28 PM   #8
HyugaKojiro HyugaKojiro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfx View Post
I don't know as much as some here but this is how it is with Funimation. Rereleases use the same discs. Period. The only times they would fix something is the type of technical issue that makes discs not work in players, etc.
I remember reading that the Essentials release of Rosario+Vampire used different discs than the original release and had inferior PQ compared to the original.

Does anyone know if there have been other releases like that one from Funimation where the re-release was inferior?
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Old 07-12-2019, 02:34 AM   #9
Jackson_H Jackson_H is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfx View Post
I don't know as much as some here but this is how it is with Funimation. Rereleases use the same discs. Period. The only times they would fix something is the type of technical issue that makes discs not work in players, etc.

Expecting redone discs just because the Japanese have something better available is just going to lead to disappointment.
Maybe not the greatest example but I remember the very first DVD releases from Funimation had some picture quality issues because they would include alternate angles (English translated credits and original RAW Japanese kanji credits); most modern releases have English credits for either audio track or RAW credits and then an English credit roll afterward. Some companies like Viz Media or Aniplex of America will have the English credits an a Special Feature.

As I previously mentioned Basilisk was one of the first anime I bought on DVD and it was the premium box set of the complete series (6 discs from the 6 volume singes repacked)

https://www.blu-ray.com/dvd/Basilisk...ies-DVD/97305/

However when they had their old "Viridian Collection" label they actually did press new discs. Now 4 discs instead of 6 and got rid of the alternate angles

https://www.blu-ray.com/dvd/Basilisk...es-DVD/151232/

I actually bought the 2nd Viridian Collection version

https://www.blu-ray.com/dvd/Basilisk...es-DVD/154619/

And it does appear to look and sound better than my original DVDs.

So saying they never update the discs technically isn't true though re-doing everything from the original iffy DVD releases to Viridian Collections might've been a one time exception.

Re-releases of S.A.V.E., Anime Classics, Essentials and Classics probably reuse those Viridian Collection DVD discs if applicable.

Unfortunately it seems Funimation has never redone an updated Blu-ray for re-releases regarding audio (higher production costs and no motivation if the flawed version sells fine enough) except in rare cases for the original SKU and might be more accurate to refer that as a recall/reissue

Last edited by Jackson_H; 07-12-2019 at 03:08 AM.
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Old 07-12-2019, 02:44 AM   #10
cfx cfx is online now
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Right, but they don't seen to have done it in many years and not with blu-rays. There's always some exception and maybe Rosario+Vampire is one based on the comment above.

I am not aware of a case where they've ever done it just because there's some better materials they could use.
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:06 AM   #11
Jackson_H Jackson_H is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfx View Post
Right, but they don't seen to have done it in many years and not with blu-rays. There's always some exception and maybe Rosario+Vampire is one based on the comment above.

I am not aware of a case where they've ever done it just because there's some better materials they could use.
I know the original 2013 Blu-rays for Sankarea were the censored version. The 2015 re-release was uncensored and I'm assuming the 2019 Essentials re-release reuses the 2015 discs.
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:10 AM   #12
professorwho professorwho is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson_H View Post
I know the original 2013 Blu-rays for Sankarea were the censored version. The 2015 re-release was uncensored and I'm assuming the 2019 Essentials re-release reuses the 2015 discs
Dude, these are just a few exceptions. FUNimation does not give a f**k about the consumer so, I hate to say it, but get over it. They won't ever fix Basilisk unless a million people yell at them, and I doubt that could ever happen, and even then, they probably wouldn't.
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Old 07-13-2019, 09:20 AM   #13
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For anybody curious about the Japanese and Funi picture quality comparison.
JP BD
https://imgur.com/a/Ydt0gJV
Funi BD
https://imgur.com/a/v31TC5N
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Old 07-13-2019, 11:30 AM   #14
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Unfortunately, ProfessorWho is correct. The chances of Funi fixing something is small. There are exceptions, but its not good to place all your hope on those few times. Most of the time when they do fix something is because there is a huge uproar, its blatantly obvious and its a new release. The thing working against you with Basilisk is that its an old show now and has had more than one release. They aren't going to go back and spend money to improve on old things that sell perfectly fine as they are now.

Believe me, I rage hard when I have to watch Claymore with lousy DD 2.0, but the only other choice is to listen to the horrible English Dub.

I also have to wonder with these older Funi upscales if besides the cost of redoing the audio if there isn't something to do with contracts? Would they have to renegotiate old contracts and get approval from Japan (all of which takes time and money) to update the discs?

As far as incorrect info on websites and packaging its something that happens in anime, but Funi has a track record of doing this and even leaving incorrect stuff up for the longest time after its been pointed out. Seriously, they are a perfect example of the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:10 PM   #15
Zhou Zhou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumi View Post
For anybody curious about the Japanese and Funi picture quality comparison.
JP BD
https://imgur.com/a/Ydt0gJV
Funi BD
https://imgur.com/a/v31TC5N
Interesting, a rare example of a Funimation in-house upscale looking better than the Japanese one. I almost imported the JP BD release just to own a version of the show with unmolested credits, but now I'm glad I didn't.
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