Dolby Atmos coming soon for home use

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Poya

Could I just use the same speakers used for the surrounds as ceiling speakers? I'm thinking the only problem with that is that it needs to be bolted into the ceiling or it will fall on your head but anything else wrong with that idea.

You should wait for speaker announcements at CEDIA. Dolby Atmos calls for more "wide dispersal" type monopoles for the ceiling.

Dipole surround speakers are not recommended for object based audio since their out of phase characteristics can smear the 3D sound field embedded in the mix.

[pentatonic]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

You should wait for speaker announcements at CEDIA. Dolby Atmos calls for more "wide dispersal" type monopoles for the ceiling.

Dipole surround speakers are not recommended for object based audio since their out of phase characteristics can smear the 3D sound field embedded in the mix.

My honest impression is that as long as you use coaxial speakers you should be fine. Those should be easy enough to install if you own your place, but for apt and condos where it's not possible I guess that's when the ceiling firing one should work well enough.

I honestly don't understand those who seem to think it's a gimmick. I only see it as the evolution of audio in HT. It's also far from a cash grab. Right now it represents a big investment, but for one who needs to change AVR or pre/pro, soon enough ATMOS enabled components will be ubiquitous. Start with TOL and like everything we have now, you will have different options (like 5.1, 7.1. 11.1 etc).

4 extra speakers is not worst than going from 5.1 to 11.4 already. I think it's strange to be on such a tech site and have so many who show no interest for this or UHD. I can't wait myself

Edit: why is it that every thread on ATMOS gets relegated to this section. Right now there are no BDs with it, hence we are mostly discussing the technology and that should leave the threads in the tech section. Who will think to check the movie section for info on ATMOS components.
Just saying

[dobyblue]

Because there were 7 separate threads all over the forum saying the same thing!

This was the default location because it was where the first thread was started. Which subforum do you think it would be most suited to - Audio Theory? Receivers? Blu-ray Technology/News?

[brian9229]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Because there were 7 separate threads all over the forum saying the same thing!

This was the default location because it was where the first thread was started. Which subforum do you think it would be most suited to - Audio Theory? Receivers? Blu-ray Technology/News?

Precisely.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by brian9229

Precisely.

Except it's not a theory.


It's software available soon in Blu-ray format.

[pentatonic]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Because there were 7 separate threads all over the forum saying the same thing!

This was the default location because it was where the first thread was started. Which subforum do you think it would be most suited to - Audio Theory? Receivers? Blu-ray Technology/News?

Oh!

That much

Then disregard as none of them are perfect.

Since Atmos will be getting more and more attention and many will look for help either as a BD feature, or how to setup for it, maybe start 2 official sections. 1 here, as even if not yet out it will be important (though as an addition to BD, even if major per say, it won't impact more than AQ and absolutely nothing on how to use BD). And possibly another in the receivers section as it should be the most helpful for the feature. And where all will have to start. The natural specialty speakers will crop up in that area I guess when they become available.

For now though, if I may, Blu-ray Technology/News is where it should be, as it is a new tech and only in news form for the moment. But if they are removed from the AVR section, more will then show up for any new piece of gear that is Atmos enabled, as gear has to be in that section.

I apologize if I might have sounded curt in my request but honestly for now I have been getting my info from other sources as I can't keep up here

[dobyblue]

It's cool pentatonic, you is good peeps! Would it make sense to move this one to the tech/news and when movies finally come out with Atmos flags we can start a thread here with an official list of titles and when AVRs come out we can start a master thread of AVRs, something like that?
No need for a new thread for every announcement.

[BozQ]

I feel this belongs in the Blu-ray tech forum. When software is available, I hope to see a certain somebody *wink* starts a list of Dolby Atmos Blu-ray titles. And that will be in the North American forum.

[Waboman]

I'm usually an early adopter. But will sit the first few rounds of Atmos out. The ceiling speakers won't be discreet, but will be matrixed. Here's a good vid.

The Home Cinema Experience - S02 EP01 - Dolby Atmos - YouTube

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Waboman

I'm usually an early adopter. But will sit the first few rounds of Atmos out. The ceiling speakers won't be discreet, but will be matrixed. Here's a good vid.

Only non-Atmos encoded material is matrixed when played through ceiling speakers.


There's still a lot of misinformation floating around out there.

[Waboman]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Only non-Atmos encoded material is matrixed when played through ceiling speakers.


There's still a lot of misinformation floating around out there.

Did you watch the vid?

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Waboman

I'm usually an early adopter. But will sit the first few rounds of Atmos out. The ceiling speakers won't be discrete, but will be matrixed. Here's a good vid.


The Home Cinema Experience - S02 EP01 - Dolby Atmos - YouTube

Actually, you're confusing the Atmos "upmix" capability given a normal 5.1 or 7.1 discrete mix. It works like Prologic IIx or IIz or DTS Neo:X in that regard to synthesize height information.

Whilst an object is not necessarily a "channel" it can pass through or be anchored to specific speaker locations and those chosen speakers (based on positional metadata information and the renderer) then act like discrete channels. That is not matrixed audio in any stretch of the imagination, especially from what I've been reading and from my own experiences with Atmos in the theater. It may be a stripped down version, but the principles are still the same.

Also, this guy is only guessing and may in fact be misinformed on some of his information. Dolby's own blog posting mentioned that an at-home Atmos track could provide data for up to 24 mains/subs + 10 overheads given the right consumer Atmos product. Trinnov is putting out such a beast at the price of an ultra-luxury car.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Waboman

Did you watch the vid?

Yes, and the info he gives is inaccurate in some areas.

[slimdude]

The information stated in the video, I've already knew from the beginning, when Dolby Atmos was announced for home theater! To experience the genuine Dolby Atmos sound, a person would still have to go to a commercial theater to hear it.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by slimdude

The information stated in the video, I've already knew from the beginning, when Dolby Atmos was announced for home theater! To experience the genuine Dolby Atmos sound, a person would still have to go to a commercial theater to hear it.

Though, the video doesn't contain correct information in most of it.

[Waboman]

Lol. Please enlighten us, master Atmos.

[stvn1974]

Sounds pretty cool if you have the money and room. I am content with my 5.1 receiver.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Waboman

Lol. Please enlighten us, master Atmos.

For one thing: Andrew implies that Dolby Atmos is not "discrete" and that it also blobs the sound into multiple speakers. Each speaker can be treated like a separate channel. You can have an object eminate from one individual speaker or a group of speakers depending on how large the sound should be.

Dolby has not said that Atmos ceiling information is "not discrete" or is an an "approximation." They are not hard channels, per se, but you can anchor a sound object in them or pan the object through them... with directional metadata at up to 10 ceiling locations. Those speakers can then act like 10 separate channels. The same goes for most of the 24 "main speakers" that can also be individually addressed.

Object based audio is scalable depending on how much metadata and how sophisticated your object renderer is... unlike channel-only based formats of the past. Andrew does state that, more or less, after the "however..." and implied "caveats" between the home version and the cinema version. That can leave a first time or uninitiated home theater buyer with mixed impressions. They actually work on similar principles.

The Atmos soundtracks coming to Blu-ray are not fixed at 7.1.4 or are they mixed exactly like a 5.1 or 7.1 channel track like he mentions... they are down-scaled versions of the same theatrical Atmos mixes. You run them through a processor like the Trinnov 32 and you'll get something like the experience at the Cinema Lab at Dolby's headquarters because that room has about the same amount of speakers and they've conducted press demos of Atmos (cinema and home) in that theater.

The only thing limiting consumer Atmos' capabilities are the hardware manufacturers themselves who have chosen, for the most part, to ignore many of the features and benefits of Atmos and object surround due to the limitations of the chips and circuitry they decided to use in first generation products. Atmos was probably a last minute add-in with these 11.1 receivers and pre-amps and they already had the parts and chips lined up for these units. Compromises were made, but Dolby still "future-proofed" their consumer Atmos codec.

Atmos for the cinema and the home are both hybrid channel beds + object extension data codecs. Neither is a true object bitstream. DTS MDA works the same way, though they do have an optional pure object only bitstream version (no channels whatsoever) which may or may not be implemented.

There are industry insiders such as Roger Dressler (who used to work for Dolby) and FilmMixer (a professional sound engineer who has worked with Atmos) over at AVS Forum and they were left with the impression that viewers will probably get an experience similar to the Atmos theatrical mixes (though not through the full 64 speakers/subs layout). Maybe not exactly the same with the current 7.1.4 products, but as you start getting more capable gear in the market. They came away impressed with what they've heard so far.

There was a press junket recently in Tokyo that actually demoed Atmos using true ceiling speakers (the CE Week demos only used the compromised all-in one speakers from Triad, Onkyo, and Pioneer that fire up at the ceiling) and the reporters could clearly discern 3D like sound swirling around the room and above their heads. They liked it much better with the ceiling speakers.

I plan on attending CEDIA this September and hope to hear Atmos for myself outside of the cinema.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

Sounds pretty cool if you have the money and room. I am content with my 5.1 receiver.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Waboman

I'm usually an early adopter. But will sit the first few rounds of Atmos out. The ceiling speakers won't be discreet, but will be matrixed. Here's a good vid.


The Home Cinema Experience - S02 EP01 - Dolby Atmos - YouTube

You misinterpreted what he said. The ceiling channels are only matrixed when it's NOT a Dolby Atmos mix. Personally, if I had a Dolby Atmos system in the home, I wouldn't even turn Atmos on if it wasn't at Atmos mix. I despise matrix derived systems - they always have artifacts. I almost never use those digital enhancement modes on my receiver, with the exception of the mode that changes TV-based 2-channel stereo audio to drive a hard center.

He also should not have said at the beginning that 5.1 and 7.1 is 'discrete' implying that Atmos is not discrete. The point he was really trying to make is that for the objects, the mixer mixes to locations not to channels. If a target location coincides with a single speaker, the sound will appear just in that one speaker. But the objects are most certainly not matrixed. Matrixed implies that sound for one channel is derived from other channels. For example, in-phase mono audio sent to Front Left and Front Right can be matrixed to center front. This is what Dolby EX and DTS-ES did for the surrounds. It created a rear center from the Left and Right surrounds in theaters (but in my experience, it was almost impossible to notice and systems were relatively unsuccessful).

However, there still may be reasons to wait. The initial systems, as indicated in the video, only add four ceiling channels, whether actual ceiling speakers or speakers that sit on top of your current speakers and point at the ceiling. But Dolby has published a document indicating that Atmos for the home can actually handle something like 24 speakers (not that I think this is really practical in most home situations).

There are definitely still questions. While Dolby has published that brief document, they usually publish extensive papers as to how the system is going to work and they haven't done that yet. But this video doesn't get it quite right based on information already known and you've misinterpreted it anyway.

So it's still wait and see and if I were considering Atmos for the home, I'd definitely be waiting for at least the 2015 receivers and pre-pros.