Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by russweiss1

It appears that no one will convince the other of their point of view. I will commend the fact that this back and forth hasn't broken down into petty name calling and insults.

Trying to change people's minds here is like trying to get them to change their religion - not happening.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Sounds like reason enough for a road trip.

I was prepared to do that very thing but my US dealer had two on the way so I grabbed one. One of the few times I paid near list price for electronic goods.

[cheez avenger]

So Peacock now has certain newer films in 4K SDR. Here's hoping that Halloween Ends gets the full 4K treatment next month.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Ten years I have known you lot (well known as in online buddies)

It really zips by, still check on a few cyber friends from the late 80's, early 90's. We were home theater forum members on CoumpServe. One is a member of this site but has become inactive, another is restoration film preservationist, Robert A Harris. Have asked Robert to post here but he declines and asked that I do not quote him here so I do not. On rare occasion I contact one of the founders of AVS, Alan Gouger, don't know what happened with David Bott.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

It really zips by, still check on a few cyber friends from the late 80's, early 90's. We were home theater forum members on CoumpServe. One is a member of this site but has become inactive, another is restoration film preservationist, Robert A Harris. Have asked Robert to post here but he declines and asked that I do not quote him here so I do not. On rare occasion I contact one of the founders of AVS, Alan Gouger, don't know what happened with David Bott.

It sure does fly over.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Piracy is basically selling and profiting from products (i.e. bootlegs) that you do not have the right to make and sell. We are not profiting from our personal use back-ups. We are not buying, or selling, bootleg discs at a flea market. We are just protecting what we legally bought.

No one was accusing you of piracy for making copies of the discs you still own. We were accusing alchav of piracy for possessing copies of discs he no longer owned. If someone buys an item, makes a copy, and then sells the original they are profiting from the sale of the original. By your own definition that would be piracy.

Though piracy doesn't require a profit anyway. Do you not consider people who download illegal copies to be pirates? Do you not consider people who freely upload illegal copies to various sites to be pirates? Are the only people who are committing piracy the people who profit from the websites?

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Vilya

They paid for a permanent license, and one that has no revocation clause, when they legally purchased their discs whether new or used. They are under no obligation to keep the original disc. If they are, again show me where that is stated. The disc is not a license; it is a piece of plastic.

No other product in the world has a permanent license. When you sell a house are you still able to go into the house

[Show spoiler]using copies of keys that you legally made

? When you sell a car are you still able to drive the car? When you sell a piece of clothing can you still wear the clothing? When you sell a couch can you still sit on the couch? When you sell a TV can you still watch the TV?

Why should anyone be allowed to continue watching a movie after they sell it? It's absurd to say that a disc grants every single person who has ever owned it permanent access to the content of the disc.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

We were accusing alchav of piracy for possessing copies of discs he no longer owned.

IMO, the major problem is folks renting disc and a making a copy. Vilya certainly does not appear to be in that group but others are and use the term “Backup” to imply they own the disc when they do not and never did. It is the very reason most disc have those warnings that can not be skipped.

Its nothing new, remember those dual-well VHS cassette decks. For some reason there are large number of people that thinks nothing of copying all kinds of copyrighted content to avoid payment to the copyright owner.

[cheez avenger]

Just re-subscribed to HBO MAX for $104.99 ($8.74 per month) for the year. I had to use a different email address since the deal was only good for new subscribers. That's a 40+% off price reduction. After the first year it goes up to $149.99 p/y.

I'll be doing this again in a week and half with Paramount+ and their new bundle deal with Showtime since Apple Channels has increased the bundle (canceled with Apple).

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

I had to use a different email address since the deal was only good for new subscribers.

If I understood correctly the deal was for new and returning subs. So I cancelled my sub, will wait several days after the expiration date and re-sub as a returning sub. That is unless they make me wait till after Oct. 30 when the deal ends.

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

If I understood correctly the deal was for new and returning subs. So I cancelled my sub, will wait several days after the expiration date and re-sub as a returning sub. That is unless they make me wait till after Oct. 30 when the deal ends.

Oops. You are correct Wendell. Since I would technically be a returning subscriber. I was typing too fast this morning.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

No one was accusing you of piracy for making copies of the discs you still own. We were accusing alchav of piracy for possessing copies of discs he no longer owned. If someone buys an item, makes a copy, and then sells the original they are profiting from the sale of the original. By your own definition that would be piracy.

Though piracy doesn't require a profit anyway. Do you not consider people who download illegal copies to be pirates? Do you not consider people who freely upload illegal copies to various sites to be pirates? Are the only people who are committing piracy the people who profit from the websites?

Alchav has not committed piracy, period. And there is no "we"; you alone have accused him.

He purchased legitimate discs and sold them later used, which he has every right to do under The First Sales Doctrine. What he did with the discs prior to selling them has no bearing upon his right to sell his discs.

He probably sold them all at a loss, so no profit was likely made, either. Profit is not the key element of piracy; it is the trafficking of bootleg merchandise that defines piracy. Alchav sold legitimate discs as was his right to do.

He may have violated the DMCA, but that is all.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

No other product in the world has a permanent license. When you sell a house are you still able to go into the house

[Show spoiler]using copies of keys that you legally made

? When you sell a car are you still able to drive the car? When you sell a piece of clothing can you still wear the clothing? When you sell a couch can you still sit on the couch? When you sell a TV can you still watch the TV?

Why should anyone be allowed to continue watching a movie after they sell it? It's absurd to say that a disc grants every single person who has ever owned it permanent access to the content of the disc.

Other products, like real estate, automobiles, clothing, and furniture are not intellectual property. I don't need a license to use my couch or to wear my fuzzy slippers.

People are allowed to continue using the content on their discs no matter what they have done with their discs. No licensing requirements or laws stipulate that you must posses the disc as proof of license. The purchase grants the license and whatever becomes of the disc later does not cancel that license.

By your ridiculous interpretation, codified in no law or license anywhere, anyone who has ever ripped a disc of any type, CD, laserdisc, DVD, or blu-ray and then sold or lost the source disc is a criminal if they kept what they ripped. By your bizarre reasoning everyone who has redeemed a digital code that came with a disc purchase, kept the digital copy, and then later sold the disc is also guilty of piracy.

This very website allows people to buy, sell, trade, and give away the digital codes that come with discs. Please go tell this website's owner and mods that they are facilitating crimes on a daily basis. Many people here are getting digital copies of movies without having ever purchased the genuine disc that contained the digital code. I just know that they will appreciate being enlightened by you.

Another example: I have backed up my laserdisc collection. I still have the laserdiscs and a working player, but my player could fail at any time. Under *your* rules I could not enjoy my back-ups unless I kept my now unplayable laserdiscs. I don't keep things that don't work. I would likely just sell off the laserdiscs to someone who could play them, but I will damn well keep the back-ups. I paid a LOT of money for these things and I will continue to be able to enjoy what I bought whether it meets with your approval or not.

I have played enough of Groundhog Day with you. We will never agree on this, so continuing the argument is futile and tedious for everyone here, but I will not stand by without comment while you wrongly accuse one of our forum members of piracy.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

Just re-subscribed to HBO MAX for $104.99 ($8.74 per month) for the year. I had to use a different email address since the deal was only good for new subscribers. That's a 40+% off price reduction. After the first year it goes up to $149.99 p/y.

I'll be doing this again in a week and half with Paramount+ and their new bundle deal with Showtime since Apple Channels has increased the bundle (canceled with Apple).

Careful now. Pengie will be accusing you of fraud next.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

IMO, the major problem is folks renting disc and a making a copy. Vilya certainly does not appear to be in that group but others are and use the term “Backup” to imply they own the disc when they do not and never did. It is the very reason most disc have those warnings that can not be skipped.

Its nothing new, remember those dual-well VHS cassette decks. For some reason there are large number of people that thinks nothing of copying all kinds of copyrighted content to avoid payment to the copyright owner.

I don't rent discs.

What I do is far, far worse. I occasionally buy a digital movie at rental prices. I am a bad person.

[russweiss1]

Dang, I thought we were moving past this.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by russweiss1

Dang, I thought we were moving past this.

We are.

Next, we will be discussing *fraudulently* opening up SVOD accounts to get discounts we're not entitled to.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Vilya

We are.

Next, we will be discussing *fraudulently* opening up SVOD accounts to get discounts we're not entitled to.

Hiow about the sharing of accounts which robs SVODs of subscription money. That happens here as some have gleefully boasted they do this practice.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Hiow about the sharing of accounts which robs SVODs of subscription money. That happens here as some have gleefully boasted they do this practice.

One outrage at a time.

That one's a rerun, anyway.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by russweiss1

Dang, I thought we were moving past this.

You haven’t been here long, have you?