Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Like I said, all Screens (LCD and LED) are made using animal cholesterol.

I don't know if they are or not and it is not even the point.

Vegans are no threat to our TVs, computers, tablets, or smartphones. Zilch. Nadda. None.

You'd think that vegan extremists would want to take away our shoes and jackets. I bet there's more leather in our homes than there is animal cholesterol in our display screens. Not to mention all of the animal food stuffs readily found in most of our kitchens. These fanatic vegans are going to skip all that and go after our TVs first? Really? The display screen industry must use more animal derived materials than the food, clothing, and shoe industries, eh?

But just in case, I have ordered a case of frozen hamburger patties- real ones. If attacked by rampaging vegans, I will throw the frozen patties at them like a ninja throws a shuriken.

I really need my smartphone, too; how else I am going to grow those horns out of my head?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I don't know if they are or not and it is not even the point.

Vegans are no threat to our TVs, computers, tablets, or smartphones. Zilch. Nadda. None.

You'd think that vegan extremists would want to take away our shoes and jackets. I bet there's more leather in our homes than there is animal cholesterol in our display screens. Not to mention all of the animal food stuffs readily found in most of our kitchens. These fanatic vegans are going to skip all that and go after our TVs first? Really? The display screen industry must use more animal derived materials than the food, clothing, and shoe industries, eh?

But just in case, I have ordered a case of frozen hamburger patties- real ones. If attacked by rampaging vegans, I will throw the frozen patties at them like a ninja throws a shuriken.

I really need my smartphone, too; how else I am going to grow those horns out of my head?

Of course it’s the point. More and more people are becoming Vegan either for their health or for the planet (or just to go with the trend). It can’t have escaped your notice, the amount of Vegan advertising and newly opened Vegan shops and stores over the last year? It’s not about them taking anything away, it’s about an ever growing section of people who may have to ask themselves if they are prepared to commit to being true Vegan and ridding themselves of all screens, some cosmetics, some soaps, cars etc..

Don’t think this won’t be brought up in articles online etc.. you probably won’t go a full week without reading about a Vegan this or that. Don’t forget, if we eventually end up going Vegan (no meat would obviously force our hand) Most of the world would be Vegan. To save the planet, we need to cut out meat by 2040 many say. Before you mention dairy products, they are also on the agenda. We will all probably have to become vegans or pay a stupid amount of tax for dairy and meat. (Working class folk couldn’t afford it)

[The_Donster]

I’m sorry, where did you read this dribble and take it as fact? And what does this have to do with the topic at hand. Oh, that’s right. It doesn’t. Stop confusing your personal beliefs with how the world turns. People are only as progressive as their front door.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Of course it’s the point. More and more people are becoming Vegan either for their health or for the planet (or just to go with the trend). It can’t have escaped your notice, the amount of Vegan advertising and newly opened Vegan shops and stores over the last year? It’s not about them taking anything away, it’s about an ever growing section of people who may have to ask themselves if they are prepared to commit to being true Vegan and ridding themselves of all screens, some cosmetics, some soaps, cars etc..

Don’t think this won’t be brought up in articles online etc.. you probably won’t go a full week without reading about a Vegan this or that. Don’t forget, if we eventually end up going Vegan (no meat would obviously force our hand) Most of the world would be Vegan. To save the planet, we need to cut out meat by 2040 many say. Before you mention dairy products, they are also on the agenda. We will all probably have to become vegans or pay a stupid amount of tax for dairy and meat. (Working class folk couldn’t afford it)

None of what you said above, even if true, supports your earlier contention that vegans are going to relinquish their display screens and they are in no way preventing anyone else from enjoying theirs.

Anecdotally, all of the people that I know that identify as "vegan" have most of the devices that you list. If you really think that people are going to stop buying and using smartphones, tablets, computer monitors, and TVs over a dietary preference then you have issues that I am not qualified to speculate upon. If you think that they are going to cause me to lose mine, directly or indirectly, then your mind is oxygen deprived.

Will people change their diet? Maybe they will. Will they change their lifestyle? Maybe, to a point. Will they forego smartphones, tablets, computer monitors, and TVs? Not a chance in all nine circles of Hell.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

You can not possibly be so dense as to think that Robert Zohn would host a flagship 4K TV shootout, invite a group of experts to evaluate these 4K TVs, including their performance with streamed content, but then choose to connect them via an inadequate and flaky network connection. They are certainly smart enough to test the quality of their network connection. These experts can also tell the difference between the compression artifacts inherent to streaming and issues caused by a faulty network connection. A monkey could.

They used a wireless network connection with 100 Mbps up and down and that is over six times the speed they needed to stream 4K content from Netflix. Latency is all but irrelevant with streaming as there is very little two-way communication between consumer and streaming server. Regardless, latency over a wireless network is way more than adequate not only to stream, but also to play video games. Barring uncommon signal interference or exceeding router range limitations, wireless networks are perfectly stable. This has also been explained to you countless times. Many people play video games over wireless networks with no issues at all and gaming, not streaming, is where latency is important.

The other video that you posted, the Kaleidescape "review", that called streaming "laughable", made no mention of network connections at all. You are just assuming that he was using a wireless network because you needed an excuse to dismiss his criticism.

Originally Posted by sapiendut

When I mentioned that I have 600 Mbps sustained downstream (I subscribe to 1 Gbps service but I can only get 800 mbps max) AND wired, he doesn’t say anything regarding my streaming complaints. Besides, it’s not like that the equipment doesn’t have buffer. I can actually unplug the ethernet cable for one second and plug it back in and still don’t see any break on the video.

Vilya I'm sure your Doc doesn't want you to get all worked up, but you still show a lack of respect for your fellow Posters. I know you love being the hammer, and think your Rants will push Discs to the Top. Robert Zohn is a professional and all his Tech are professional, and he set up his Network according to the Average User. Even with a Buffer, do you guys feel Wireless is better than Wired? Why is it that for Firmware updates a Wired connection is recommended. I never said a Wireless connection is inadequate, just not as solid as a Wired one. You guys are the ones that complain about Streaming problems....I don't have any!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Vilya I'm sure your Doc doesn't want you to get all worked up, but you still show a lack of respect for your fellow Posters. I know you love being the hammer, and think your Rants will push Discs to the Top. Robert Zohn is a professional and all his Tech are professional, and he set up his Network according to the Average User. Even with a Buffer, do you guys feel Wireless is better than Wired? Why is it that for Firmware updates a Wired connection is recommended. I never said a Wireless connection is inadequate, just not as solid as a Wired one. You guys are the ones that complain about Streaming problems....I don't have any!

You need not worry about my getting "worked up" nor do you need to pretend that you are concerned about my health. Professing a fake concern for my well being, and as the opening line in your reply, is simply shameful. I would never put my health at risk just to converse with you of that you may be certain. I find your posts to be entertaining due to the unintentional comedy found within them. It's that simple.

The only love of mine that is possibly apparent to someone as obtuse as you is my love of this hobby. My "rants", as you call them, are just rebuttals to the ceaseless nonsense, ignorance, and deliberate disinformation that you repeatedly post. It is your relentless campaign of falsehoods that causes you to lose respect. When you keep posting things that have been proven untrue over and over by so many different people, then you have to expect that your continued willful ignorance will be rejected more forcefully each time that you persist in your folly. You seem to think that if you repeat a falsehood often enough it will magically become the truth or at least be perceived as such.

You barely know your own mind and you certainly have no idea what I think about any subject unless I explicitly tell you and even then you are still not likely to understand it. I have never once said that discs would be the top selling video delivery system. I said their sales would decline to a point and then plateau and remain as a niche market. I follow, read, and comment on the actual disc sales data. My comments are based on plain facts, unlike your mean spirited hopes that physical media dies altogether. You never hear me wishing that streaming would end, but you often wish that discs would disappear. And why? How does their continued existence harm you?

You know nothing about why Robert Zohn, or anyone else, did anything. You are just posting your own wishful speculation here. You are grasping for straws in your pathetic attempt to discredit their expert criticism of streaming quality. You do not like what they said, so you, who have no expertise whatsoever, are trying to dismiss their findings. The whole purpose of that event was to evaluate those TVs, not to simulate what you think is the "average users" home networking environment. They wanted to test how streaming performed on each of these TVs and the ONLY way that can be done with integrity is to have a solid, stable internet connection with ample bandwidth. They chose a wireless connection because it fulfilled all of those criteria. Anything less would have given them inaccurate results and no professional would have accepted them.

Before the test even began, it was stated that while streaming had improved due to HDR content that it was still "nowhere" near to the quality that either discs or Kaleidescape delivered. Streaming placed a distant third.

During the test, both the bitrates being received and the wireless network connection was fully monitored. No network connection anomalies occurred. The compression artifacts that they saw were completely due to the limitations of streaming and nothing else.

The best part of all is that you were the one that posted these videos in the first place, thinking that they praised streaming. When you finally found out that they had criticism for it, you decided to try and discredit them. All of which demonstrates that your listening and reading comprehension is extremely poor.

A wired connection delivers better speed test results and if you are using shielded ethernet cable, which you are not, then signal interference will not be a concern. Most people do not have signal interference issues; if they did, they would not use a wireless connection. Similarly, if their connection was not "solid" and reliable, they would change it.

Wireless network speed test results can provide many times the bandwidth necessary to stream in 4K. They easily provide low enough latency results to accommodate both streaming and gaming.

The wireless network used at the shootout had 6 times the bandwidth needed (100 Mbps symmetrical) to receive the 16 Mbps stream from Netflix. A 200 Mbps wired connection would not deliver that same 16 Mbps stream any better; both connections have bandwidth to spare and would provide the same result.

I never used a wired connection to receive firmware updates. Some people like to use a wired connection because of persistent urban myths such as the one that you are perpetuating here. Firmware update files are tiny and they download extremely fast over either a wireless or a wired connection. Nothing in either my TV manual or my Oppo manuals make any recommendation on how to download a firmware update. They say to use any method that you prefer: wired, wireless, or download to a USB drive. If there was a "preferred' method, the manuals would so state; they do not. If any method was risky and potentially harmful, they would say not to use it; they make no such admonitions.

Your inability to see, or, more likely, to admit, the existence of compression artifacts in streaming does not mean that they are not present. Numerous forum members have reported seeing them. Virtually every professional review that I have read or that I have seen mention them, including the ones posted by you. A fact does not cease to be a fact simply because you deny it.

I find streaming, overall, to be very good and I receive it in equal quality over either my wireless or my wired connection, as I have stated many times. I see the artifacts because I happen to see things that are really there, but they are usually within tolerable levels. I would not pay for streaming if the overall quality was not good.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Vilya I'm sure your Doc doesn't want you to get all worked up, but you still show a lack of respect for your fellow Posters. I know you love being the hammer, and think your Rants will push Discs to the Top. Robert Zohn is a professional and all his Tech are professional, and he set up his Network according to the Average User. Even with a Buffer, do you guys feel Wireless is better than Wired? Why is it that for Firmware updates a Wired connection is recommended. I never said a Wireless connection is inadequate, just not as solid as a Wired one. You guys are the ones that complain about Streaming problems....I don't have any!

I call for a movie night at Alchav's place... You're the only person here that claims to have no issues with streaming, therefore, a demonstration of your wired setup is in order I think, so that members can experience what you're seeing, or the opportunity to point out what you're not seeing.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

I call for a movie night at Alchav's place... You're the only person here that claims to have no issues with streaming, therefore, a demonstration of your wired setup is in order I think, so that members can experience what you're seeing, or the opportunity to point out what you're not seeing.

It still would not get him to admit that these artifacts exist; he would just blame our visual acuity, solar flares, UFOs, vegans, the new math, etc....

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Vilya

It still would not get him to admit that these artifacts exist; he would just blame our visual acuity, solar flares, UFOs, vegans, the new math, etc....

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Vilya

It still would not get him to admit that these artifacts exist; he would just blame our visual acuity, solar flares, UFOs, vegans, the new math, etc....

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

I’m sorry, where did you read this dribble and take it as fact? And what does this have to do with the topic at hand. Oh, that’s right. It doesn’t. Stop confusing your personal beliefs with how the world turns. People are only as progressive as their front door.

Can you point out what is dribble exactly? Why do you think so much money is being invested in fake meat? McDonald’s, Burger King both have vegan meat free burgers coming, the worlds changing. Electric cars will replace diesel cars by 2040 etc..

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Vilya I'm sure your Doc doesn't want you to get all worked up, but you still show a lack of respect for your fellow Posters. I know you love being the hammer, and think your Rants will push Discs to the Top. Robert Zohn is a professional and all his Tech are professional, and he set up his Network according to the Average User. Even with a Buffer, do you guys feel Wireless is better than Wired? Why is it that for Firmware updates a Wired connection is recommended. I never said a Wireless connection is inadequate, just not as solid as a Wired one. You guys are the ones that complain about Streaming problems....I don't have any!

I only think what you say is true when gaming is involved. For absolute sure, it does affect latency in shooters and any fast paced multiplayer game. Wired and wireless for films and tv, I don’t think it matters presuming you have a good fibre connection.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

None of what you said above, even if true, supports your earlier contention that vegans are going to relinquish their display screens and they are in no way preventing anyone else from enjoying theirs.

Anecdotally, all of the people that I know that identify as "vegan" have most of the devices that you list. If you really think that people are going to stop buying and using smartphones, tablets, computer monitors, and TVs over a dietary preference then you have issues that I am not qualified to speculate upon. If you think that they are going to cause me to lose mine, directly or indirectly, then your mind is oxygen deprived.

Will people change their diet? Maybe they will. Will they change their lifestyle? Maybe, to a point. Will they forego smartphones, tablets, computer monitors, and TVs? Not a chance in all nine circles of Hell.

Why? Being Vegan is not just about your diet. It’s about you doing all you reasonably can to protect against the exploitation and suffering of animals.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Why? Being Vegan is not just about your diet. It’s about you doing all you reasonably can to protect against the exploitation and suffering of animals.

Being vegan is about what that individual decides it means. Further, most jobs require that you use computers and quite a few require that you use a mobile device as well. Are these orthodox vegans of yours planning to quit their jobs and become organic soy farmers instead all while limiting themselves to Amish farming techniques?

Maybe someone will be able to design a cholesterol free display screen and your imaginary crisis will be averted?

[Wendell R. Breland]

At 40' away and thru 3 walls I get 390 Mbps using wireless AC. Allowing 25 Mbps for UHD Netflix streams would mean more than 15 UHD programs at once could be streamed. And for the umpteenth time, most slowdowns during prime time is between the CDN and ones IP provider. Having a 10G FTTP is not going to help that.

[Show spoiler]

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Being vegan is about what that individual decides it means. Further, most jobs require that you use computers and quite a few require that you use a mobile device as well. Are these orthodox vegans of yours planning to quit their jobs and become organic soy farmers instead all while limiting themselves to Amish farming techniques?

Maybe someone will be able to design a cholesterol free display screen and your imaginary crisis will be averted?

You need cholesterol for the LCD process. It’s a chemical reaction and animal cholesterol is a vital part.

From what I have read, hardcore Vegans accept they need to work and have to suck it up but that still wouldn’t mean they relent with household stuff. That’s a lifestyle choice, earning money isn’t always.

[The_Donster]

Can we please get back on point and stop arguing about things that have nothing to do with the thread at hand. How a moderator hasn’t issued a warning is beyond me

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

Can we please get back on point and stop arguing about things that have nothing to do with the thread at hand. How a moderator hasn’t issued a warning is beyond me

Of course it’s relevant. Very very relevant. ‘And the future of Home Video’.

You are hilarious. You pop up a few times every few weeks then think you own the thread.

[The_Donster]

What does veganism, carbon footprints and whatever ridiculous prediction/deflection you pull out of your ass have to do with this this thread Nostradamus

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

What does veganism, carbon footprints and whatever ridiculous prediction/deflection you pull out of your ass have to do with this this thread Nostradamus

Have you not been reading the last few pages? I explained EXACTLY what it was related to.

Anyway, if you think that’s not the case, bring something to the table about Disc versus digital rather than moaning and acting like the thread police.