Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

My August 12th order of The Witches on Warner Archives blu-ray still has not shipped from Amazon despite its Aug. 20th release date; my estimated arrival is not until Sept. 17th.

Getting Warner Bros. or Disney releases on release day from Amazon is all but impossible.

Considering how long it takes you to watch your bought content, you shouldn’t worry!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Considering how long it takes you to watch your bought content, you shouldn’t worry!

I just watched my dvd copy a few months ago.

I get what I want watched; you need not worry about that. I have all the free time that one could wish for afterall.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I just watched my dvd copy a few months ago.

I get what I want watched; you need not worry about that. I have all the free time that one could wish for afterall.

Lucky *******.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Lucky *******.

What you call "luck", I prefer to call "skill."

Luck played a part, but I'm taking all the credit just the same.

[The_Donster]

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

If Disney is required to make such a refund upon request, that's mandatory and they have to comply. Disney advertising the availability of such a refund is likely not required and thus they do not do so.

I will hunt up the court orders if anyone is really interested. In a nutshell the court said Disney must make a refund available and place the notice on the packaged, they did and I tried to get one but all I got was the runaround. They have dropped the notice so it will be interesting to see if Redbox continues to sell the Disney codes.

[JPK]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

we all need to do what is right for each of us.

but I just don't get what I quoted above

Don't get me wrong if you start with "I live in a tiny one room apartment where I sleep on the couch because there is no room for a bed" space is definitely at a high premium and I get the issue of having thousands of disks. But in a normal house or apartment, to me it sounds made up. A 6 inch deep shelving system with 10 shelves (more or less floor to ceiling) can store ~250 films per foot even if we were to assume 200 that would mean sacrificing 5 feet of useless wall space for 1000 films. how many places don't have 5' of walls?

I have 'U shaped' shelving, 2.2m high in a purpose built cupboard. Holds about 1200.

I want to be able to easily see what I have, select a movie easily and don't like huge amounts of media or books on display in the open. Looks untidy.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by JPK

I have 'U shaped' shelving, 2.2m high in a purpose built cupboard. Holds about 1200.

I want to be able to easily see what I have, select a movie easily and don't like huge amounts of media or books on display in the open. Looks untidy.

That sounds like a woman talking

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

You really think Netflix cares how Disney✛ will do their streaming or Amazon cares how VUDU does theirs, if you do do then I have this big bridge I will sell you on the cheap!!

Streaming is a CF when it comes to what hardware is needed for HDR and immersive audio. You have to go to each providers site to see a list of hardware that provider is compatible with. Prime example, the new FireTV has most of the new features unless you want Disney✛ because that is not on any FireTV.

You're absolutely right there are no hard guidelines or hardware requirements. Streaming has very low standards for good reasons so most people can expect good enough quality. I say with the right Codec and Adaptive Streaming that high Quality can be achieved. I'm sure Providers like Disney+ will push these limits to the max, and raise the bar for all Streaming Providers. Symmetrical Speeds are probably not needed, but good upload will make for a better Streaming experience. Also Latency where Hardwire comes into play will prove to be Vidal in this Quality Streaming!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You're absolutely right there are no hard guidelines or hardware requirements. Streaming has very low standards for good reasons so most people can expect good enough quality. I say with the right Codec and Adaptive Streaming that high Quality can be achieved. I'm sure Providers like Disney+ will push these limits to the max, and raise the bar for all Streaming Providers. Symmetrical Speeds are probably not needed, but good upload will make for a better Streaming experience. Also Latency where Hardwire comes into play will prove to be Vidal in this Quality Streaming!

Of course there are guidelines and hardware requirements; each streaming provider and device manufacturer publishes their own. It's pretty easy to look them up, too.

Which devices will support which apps has more to do with business negotiations between the parties involved than it does with any technical limitations with the devices themselves.

Why would streaming providers invest more to improve their streaming quality when most of their customers, like you for example, already think that streaming looks "fantastic?" There is no need for them to expend any effort to satisfy the already satisfied. You really think that Disney plans to revolutionize streaming quality for their asking price of $7 per month?

Adaptive streaming will never provide you with a higher bitrate than the maximum that a streaming provider offers. With Netflix, that maximum is just 16 Mbps and adaptive streaming does not change that fact, symmetrical internet does not change that fact, and a wired network won't change that fact. Adaptive streaming alters the transmitted bitrate from the streaming provider to the consumer to accommodate fluctuating and often deteriorating internet connections; it will never give you more than the streaming provider's maximum bitrate.

The upload speed requirements for streaming are trivial and this has been exhaustively explained to you previously, but clearly in vain. Virtually any internet connection readily and easily exceeds the upload speed requirements for streaming many times over. This upload speed requirement is so minuscule that no streaming provider even specifies one in their requirements. The necessary upload speed for streaming is measured in mere Kbps; increasing my upload speed to 130 Mbps, thereby matching my download speed, is not going to improve my streaming performance. It would just be overkill.

You persist with this nonsense that a wired network is superior to a wireless network for streaming and that has also been disproved countless times, but you obstinately refuse to accept it. Latency is mostly important for video gaming and most wireless networks handle that just fine, too. Not a single streaming provider lists a latency requirement.

A wireless network works just as well for streaming as does a wired one. Not one streaming provider recommends one over the other. Any modern home network with broadband internet service can easily handle the paltry 16 Mbps bitrates offered by most streaming providers. Even an ancient G rated router can easily handle bitrates that pathetic. Speed test results over either network connection easily exceed the streaming recommendations published by all streaming providers.

People would not use wireless networks to stream videos if they performed poorly. I use both wired and wireless networks and I get the same results with both and this has been confirmed by objective speed test results performed over both network connections. I am rather picky about such things and I would NEVER tolerate the use of a wireless network if it delivered unreliable or worse results. Why the hell would I? Why would anyone?

Professional reviewers have often evaluated streaming performance over wireless networks because the results are the same as with a wired network; no professional reviewer would use a subpar network connection to evaluate an internet dependent service such as streaming.

In summary:

Not one streaming provider recommends symmetrical internet.
Not one streaming provider recommends a wired network connection over a wireless one.
Not one streaming provider specifies any upload speed requirement.
Not one streaming provider specifies any latency requirement.

^The imaginary need for all four of these are entirely made up by you. You do not know more than the streaming providers themselves, so stop pretending that you do.

[rui no onna]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I'm sure Providers like Disney+ will push these limits to the max, and raise the bar for all Streaming Providers.

HEVC, H.264 and VP9 are what devices support (HEVC and VP9 isn't even as widely supported) so that's what providers need to use. Customers actually need to be able to watch the content they're paying subscription for.

Unless we all get gigabit speed internet with no data caps standard, there's only so much providers can do given practical bitrate limitations.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by rui no onna

HEVC, H.264 and VP9 are what devices support (HEVC and VP9 isn't even as widely supported) so that's what providers need to use. Customers actually need to be able to watch the content they're paying subscription for.

Unless we all get gigabit speed internet with no data caps standard, there's only so much providers can do given practical bitrate limitations.

The streaming providers don't need to improve anything because their customers are mostly content with what they get now.

Improvements cost money and neither provider nor customer seem interested in spending anymore than they have to; streaming customers prefer cheap and convenient and that's what the providers deliver.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You're absolutely right there are no hard guidelines or hardware requirements. Streaming has very low standards for good reasons so most people can expect good enough quality. I say with the right Codec and Adaptive Streaming that high Quality can be achieved. I'm sure Providers like Disney+ will push these limits to the max, and raise the bar for all Streaming Providers. Symmetrical Speeds are probably not needed, but good upload will make for a better Streaming experience. Also Latency where Hardwire comes into play will prove to be Vidal in this Quality Streaming!

What are you talking about? There is no upload speed required for streaming. Streaming only requires download speed. The upload speed can be as slow as a snail and it won’t make any difference. You’ve been imagining things over and over again.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Of course there are guidelines and hardware requirements; each streaming provider and device manufacturer publishes their own. It's pretty easy to look them up, too.

People would not use wireless networks to stream videos if they performed poorly. I use both wired and wireless networks and I get the same results with both and this has been confirmed by objective speed test results performed over both network connections. I am rather picky about such things and I would NEVER tolerate the use of a wireless network if it delivered unreliable or worse results. Why the hell would I? Why would anyone?

Professional reviewers have often evaluated streaming performance over wireless networks because the results are the same as with a wired network; no professional reviewer would use a subpar network connection to evaluate an internet dependent service such as streaming.

In summary:

Not one streaming provider recommends symmetrical internet.
Not one streaming provider recommends a wired network connection over a wireless one.
Not one streaming provider specifies any upload speed requirement.
Not one streaming provider specifies any latency requirement.

^The imaginary need for all four of these are entirely made up by you. You do not know more than the streaming providers themselves, so stop pretending that you do.

Originally Posted by crackedknee

I can see HDR being something that might be helpful, though I am not totally convince by HD with HDR that I have seen (the UHD yes).

Yes, already the streaming tech is catching up, even in the last year give or take. Eventually delivered Mps speeds will equal disc, BUT: not every locale has that infrastructure (I am optimal in my set-up, with my speeds dropping at lowest to 140mps.

That doesn't mean there aren't problems. If the signal service DOES get slowed for a few hours, the various streaming services will use their adaptive features to downgrade my stream (in the case of Vudu, HDR drops out or if bad will crash, in the case of FN, video/audio drop-outs or if bad will crash).

Originally Posted by sapiendut

What are you talking about? There is no upload speed required for streaming. Streaming only requires download speed. The upload speed can be as slow as a snail and it won’t make any difference. You’ve been imagining things over and over again.

You guys are the ones with problems, I see no problems. I only have 85Mbps but it's Symmetrical, and it gives me Fantastic Streaming Quality with any of the Streaming Providers. Sorry Crackedknee I know you are a Streaming supporter, but you had problems too with good download speeds but still crashed. This is my observation working with Streaming Providers the foundation is set with the right Codec and Adaptive Streaming the Bitrate can be set to give the best PQ and Audio dependent on your Infrastructure and Bandwidth. Don't say it will never happen, because we all know Technology always moves forward!

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys are the ones with problems, I see no problems. I only have 85Mbps but it's Symmetrical, and it gives me Fantastic Streaming Quality with any of the Streaming Providers. Sorry Crackedknee I know you are a Streaming supporter, but you had problems too with good download speeds but still crashed. This is my observation working with Streaming Providers the foundation is set with the right Codec and Adaptive Streaming the Bitrate can be set to give the best PQ and Audio dependent on your Infrastructure and Bandwidth. Don't say it will never happen, because we all know Technology always moves forward!

I guarantee they're there, you're just not skilled enough to see them...

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys are the ones with problems, I see no problems. I only have 85Mbps but it's Symmetrical, and it gives me Fantastic Streaming Quality with any of the Streaming Providers. Sorry Crackedknee I know you are a Streaming supporter, but you had problems too with good download speeds but still crashed. This is my observation working with Streaming Providers the foundation is set with the right Codec and Adaptive Streaming the Bitrate can be set to give the best PQ and Audio dependent on your Infrastructure and Bandwidth. Don't say it will never happen, because we all know Technology always moves forward!

I don't have problems with streaming; I simply see its obvious limitations. If I had problems, I would not keep paying for it. You can't see any faults because of your profound fanboy bias, but mostly because you have nothing better to compare streaming with.

As has already been explained many times, your having symmetrical internet is irrelevant. There are no published upload speed requirements for streaming because they are beyond trivial.

You do not own a 4K disc player and you have not seen the impressive quality that a 4K disc can deliver, so, as usual, you do not know what you are talking about. It is fine that you are happy with streaming, but you can not intelligently comment about what is truly possible with home video presentations because you can not view a 4K disc. You just don't know any better, but you insist on acting like you do.

You cling to your fantasy of a day when streaming equals the quality of a disc. You think new codecs will transform streaming without realizing that any new improved codecs will benefit physical media every bit as much.

Adaptive streaming has existed for years and you are clueless as to what it actually does. Adaptive streaming does not improve maximum streaming bitrates; it only adjusts the bitrate, and usually downwards, to compensate for degrading internet conditions and then back again if they improve. It can not exceed the streaming provider's maximum bitrate no matter how ideal the internet conditions are.

Improvements in streaming are possible, and is there ever room for improvement, but there is no reason at present for streaming providers to offer them. Their customers, comprised of easily pleased people like you, are already satisfied.

Improved streaming will require more bandwidth, while many can not even stream in 4K now, and more bandwidth will cost more money. Streaming customers will have to pay more if this ever happens and it is quite the assumption to assume that they will want to pay more to get it. Regardless, you can not credit streaming with improvements that have not happened.

[sapiendut]

I have zero problem with streaming. Netflix requires 15 mbps, I have measured and sustained 600 Mbps internet. There is never a need or requirement for the same down and up load speeds. Even if it does, my up,oad speed is more than triple the speed requirement of Netflix.

At the end of the day, you are still pushing the wrong information as fact.

[Ender14]

I just operate under the assumption that alchav21 is a master level troll at this point. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that anyone could continually spout false information after they have been provided ample facts that disprove their claims repeatedly. Unless he's a politician, which would explain a lot.

If he's not a troll, then I have to assume that he has extreme learning comprehension problems. So assuming he's a troll is the kindest way to perceive him.

[Vilya]

I am looking to buy another TV!

Please visit my new thread and tell me where to go, er, , what to buy!

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...2#post16826462

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Don’t tell them that, even the hardcore collectors will switch to digital now!

Oh no, we want you around for a good long time.

You're in for some serious shit when TVs and movies and theaters are all not only still around but thriving twenty years from now