Arrow Video / Arrow Academy USA Discussion Thread

[GxyExpress999]

I guess it won't happen unless they can raise $100,000 by Dec 2 since it's a "fixed funding" correct? (About $800 raised so far...)

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/arrow-video-usa

[Ill_Be_Back]

Originally Posted by NoirFan

But, if they can't release it in the US, they likely won't be releasing it at all, unless it is a marquee title:

This is what I meant earlier.

[Cinema84]

Aren't we forgetting one thing? It's ANOTHER label releasing top-quality physical media discs in the US. There's ALWAYS room for more, especially quality-minded companies run by passionate fans, not just business-types just looking to make a quick buck. The more, the merrier

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by NoirFan

On titles that they can afford to outbid Scream on, yes. Titles that Scream acquire instead of Arrow now have no possibility of an Arrow edition.

You're acting like Arrow and Scream were two sides of the same coin! Arrow have released less than 20% of the titles Scream have in the US, they were never our saviours from Screams crappy masters like you're making out.

Whilst it's true that those 20% won't be released by Arrow (unless they count them as "special" titles, which they might), they will be available to other UK labels instead. Few of which are as good as Arrow, but most are still miles better than Scream (Eureka for instance are about to save you from Scream's no doubt poorly encoded Blacula twofer).

Originally Posted by NoirFan

I suppose that is theoretically possible, but Scream haven't addressed/fixed any of their technical snafus so far, despite all of the criticisms, so why would, say, Arrow releasing a properly-encoded disc of The Sentinel have any effect upon Scream's QC on a disc of The Island of Dr. Moreau?

Because customer's don't have infinite money and have to choose which titles they can afford. The better Arrow does and the worse Scream do in the quality department, the more of Scream's base Arrow will take over, and the more likely they'll be able to outbid them on future stuff. They don't have to be the same titles for them to do that.

Originally Posted by NoirFan

If this plan/business model had been introduced before Arrow's restored, labor-of-love Burbs disc was released, and Scream had outbid them, then our only option as consumers would be the Scream disc, likely recycling the horrid Universal master and with no workprint (to say nothing of the potential encoding/quality control issues).

Well again, the option's always there for them to release in the UK only. The Burbs would clearly have counted as a "special" title the way the Arrow rep described it in the UK thread, so you're obviously wrong.

[NoirFan]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

Well again, the option's always there for them to release in the UK only. The Burbs would clearly have counted as a "special" title the way the Arrow rep described it in the UK thread, so you're obviously wrong.

Okay, it is a debatable example, but I only used it as a hypothetical (as the potential difference in that case between an Arrow and a Scream release would be as substantial as any that came to my mind). Again, this is the bottom line I am focusing on:

Originally Posted by NoirFan

If they can't release it in the US, they likely won't be releasing it at all, unless it is a marquee title.

How is that a 'wrong' assumption to make, based upon this:

Originally Posted by Arrow

It would have to be something very special for us to release in the UK only.

Arrow have released less than 20% of the titles Scream have in the US, they were never our saviours from Screams crappy masters like you're making out.

They were certainly our 'saviours from Scream' on all of the titles I mentioned (and a few others) which, though as you note represent a relatively small chunk of their overall output, still means that, going forward:

Titles that Scream acquire instead of Arrow now have no possibility of an Arrow edition

...aside, as noted, from the occasional 'special' release. Less than 20%, perhaps, fit into this category, but that's still an unfortunate scenario. So, if we're calling people 'wrong', then it is fact your assertion:

There is literally no bad side to this!

that is incorrect. There is certainly plenty worth celebrating with this announcement, but there are legitimate potential reasons for concern as well.

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by NoirFan

But, if they can't release it in the US, they likely won't be releasing it at all, unless it is a marquee title:

Yeah, that kinda sucks, since some of their best stuff is stuff that seems to be stuck in licensing hell in this country (ex Shivers) or have a crappy studio release already (ex Cinema Paradiso or Dressed to Kill) or have another company that owns the rights that hasn't shown any sign of intention to actually release it on bluray in this country (ex Sisters). I mean, it's not like their old discs are disappearing, but it seems for some reason like it's easier for them to get the rights to bigger movies in the UK only than it is for most of these kinds of labels to get them in the US, so I'm guessing their titles are very possibly going to go even more "niche" than they were previously. I really hope they can outbid Kino on more Bava/MGM stuff, cause the US releases of those were incredibly lacking. I'm not sure if Kino gets first dibs or something, I sure hope not.

It's not just Scream and Kino, either - a lot of their titles were already released by Blue Underground here. In these cases, most of the movies came out a long time ago before Arrow had cleaned up their act and thus the BU version was actually the superior one, but their version of Zombie for example I think was vastly preferable cause of the gigantic amount of extra stuff they had. I am guessing that any other movies like that where a US release came out long ago from BU or Synapse or whoever will probably be pre-empted, while they may have previously planned on doing UK versions. Not that this is a big deal with Synapse releases, since Synapse is awesome, but with some of these kinds of movies more options is always better for me.

[EddieLarkin]

If the plenty worth celebrating about completely and utterly outweighs the causes for concern, then there is no bad side. Even if you genuinely lose out on a title you would have got otherwise (i.e. Arrow don't consider it a "special title" AND it NEVER comes from one of many decent UK labels), you'll be getting bigger titles and/or more obscure titles, with new transfers (which was pretty rare during Arrow's UK period) instead. And you'll never know what films you missed out on, or that you ever actually did. On a handful of titles that you'll never know about you're swapping the crappy studio master for a brand spanking new transfer of what will likely be a more important film! That's a good thing...

And anyway, you keep repeating the quote that a title will have to be special to get a UK only release, but ignore the several times Arrow stated in the UK thread that nothing is set in stone and they'll adjust if necessary down the line. For all we know, it'll be business as usual in the UK.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

If the plenty worth celebrating about completely and utterly outweighs the causes for concern, then there is no bad side. Even if you genuinely lose out on a title you would have got otherwise (i.e. Arrow don't consider it a "special title" AND it NEVER comes from one of many decent UK labels), you'll be getting bigger titles and/or more obscure titles, with new transfers (which was pretty rare during Arrow's UK period) instead. And you'll never know what films you missed out on, or that you ever actually did.

And anyway, you keep repeating the quote that a title will have to be special to get a UK only release, but ignore the several times Arrow stated in the UK thread that nothing is set in stone and they'll adjust if necessary down the line. For all we know, it'll be business as usual in the UK.

Exactly. Until something is officially announced, this is what it always is on BR.com: Speculation.

[ryanmj1993]

This is really awesome. I don't own any of their titles but I've always been really impressed with the titles (especially horror) that they release. Hopefully they can release more horror here in the US as well.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by cine74

Aren't we forgetting one thing? It's ANOTHER label releasing top-quality physical media discs in the US. There's ALWAYS room for more, especially quality-minded companies run by passionate fans, not just business-types just looking to make a quick buck. The more, the merrier

I agree!

[GasmaskAvenger]

I won't be surprised if we somehow get two releases of the same movie on the same day from both Arrow and Shout Factory.

Remember back in the DVD days, Media Blasters and Blue Underground somehow managed to both put out a DVD of Lucio Fulci's Zombie on the same exact day so its bound for a similar bizarre event to happen again.

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by GasmaskAvenger

I won't be surprised if we somehow get two releases of the same movie on the same day from both Arrow and Shout Factory.

Remember back in the DVD days, Media Blasters and Blue Underground somehow managed to both put out a DVD of Lucio Fulci's Zombie on the same exact day so its bound for a similar bizarre event to happen again.

Yeah, if this happens I'm 100% fine with this announcement, it just seems that for some reason in the last decade that this almost never happens anymore. I don't know if rights agreements have changed so much or if it's just that labels view double dips as a much bigger risk since the physical media market is so much smaller than it was back then. If the latter, and they keep releasing the same kinds of movies they have been over the last couple years then there's no downside. If the former, and they have to set their sights on less ambitious releases because everything they wanted to do is already accounted for in the US, then this is a big downside for those of us who were importing their stuff and those who live in region B territory.

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by GxyExpress999

I guess it won't happen unless they can raise $100,000 by Dec 2 since it's a "fixed funding" correct? (About $800 raised so far...)

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/arrow-video-usa

I didn't see this. This makes some sense that they'd have to go for a fundraiser to really launch, and it's unfortunate that their first three titles are so much more lackluster than many of their recent UK ones. If their first three in the US were The Burbs, Shivers, and Theater of Blood or something I bet they'd sell a ton of copies and thus gauge interest in their label as being very high. But if they're releasing three movies barely anyone has heard of, I feel like they're just kinda setting themselves up for failure cause there's no way they're going to sell several thousand copies of Day of Anger or Blind Woman's Curse. It also doesn't bode well for people getting excited to donate to their label. I know that if I'd never heard of a label and they announced those three movies as their first ones I wouldn't be in a huge rush to donate to them for future releases, while if they had three like the three I just mentioned where they're very in-demand in this country and have no release announced yet I bet they could get a ton of interest cause people would see that this is a company releasing major, in-demand stuff.

[NoirFan]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

And anyway, you keep repeating the quote that a title will have to be special to get a UK only release, but ignore the several times Arrow stated in the UK thread that nothing is set in stone and they'll adjust if necessary down the line.

...Hence my careful use of the 'likely', 'potential', 'theoretically', 'assumedly' qualifiers. Obviously we will have to wait and see how all of this plays out, but it is perfectly legitimate to speculate, based upon the information we've received so far, that:

Originally Posted by NoirFan

if they can't release it in the US, they likely won't be releasing it at all, unless it is a marquee title

...which led me to:

Titles that Scream acquire instead of Arrow now have no possibility of an Arrow edition

But I'm just repeating myself and there isn't anything concrete to be added at this point, so I'll leave at that.

[ryanmj1993]

So I'm trying to figure this out? Does this mean that titles that they have already released in the UK they may re release in the US? For instance Texas Chainsaw 2? Also does this give them the right to release a film simultaneously in the US and UK?

[NoirFan]

Originally Posted by ryanmj1993

So I'm trying to figure this out? Does this mean that titles that they have already released in the UK they may re release in the US? For instance Texas Chainsaw 2?

Not if the label they licensed it from still has exclusive US rights:

We’d like to bring as many films as possible from our existing UK catalog to North America but many are owned by other companies or the studios themselves so we cannot guarantee anything unfortunately.

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by ryanmj1993

So I'm trying to figure this out? Does this mean that titles that they have already released in the UK they may re release in the US? For instance Texas Chainsaw 2? Also does this give them the right to release a film simultaneously in the US and UK?

Mark of the Devil was already released in the UK, so looks like the answer to the first is "yes, if they can get the rights." The answer to the second looks to be the same. It's probably going to be tricky or expensive getting the rights in both countries to a lot of the stuff they'd previously been releasing in the UK.

[EddieLarkin]

If another US indie already has the title they won't be able to until their rights expire, at which point they can bid for it. Something like TCM2 could theoretically see a release since MGM aren't necessarily going to care about it competing with their own edition, but there's no reason to think it'll actually happen at this stage.

Right now, after they've exhausted the films they have for UK only release (stuff like Thief and Nekromantik), which will last them up to May 2015, they'll then focus on making everything simultaneous US and UK releases.

[GxyExpress999]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

I didn't see this. This makes some sense that they'd have to go for a fundraiser to really launch, and it's unfortunate that their first three titles are so much more lackluster than many of their recent UK ones. If their first three in the US were The Burbs, Shivers, and Theater of Blood or something I bet they'd sell a ton of copies and thus gauge interest in their label as being very high. But if they're releasing three movies barely anyone has heard of, I feel like they're just kinda setting themselves up for failure cause there's no way they're going to sell several thousand copies of Day of Anger or Blind Woman's Curse. It also doesn't bode well for people getting excited to donate to their label. I know that if I'd never heard of a label and they announced those three movies as their first ones I wouldn't be in a huge rush to donate to them for future releases, while if they had three like the three I just mentioned where they're very in-demand in this country and have no release announced yet I bet they could get a ton of interest cause people would see that this is a company releasing major, in-demand stuff.

Yeah it looks like, excluding T-shirt etc., about 4000 copies (3 titles combined --> 4000 x $25 = 100,000) will need to be sold within 60 days. All ($100,000) or nothing I guess...

[MTRodaba2468]

As the owner of a number of Arrow's releases, I'm completely in support of this...