A Guide to Bipolar, Dipolar, & Direct-Radiating Monopole Surround Speakers (PART II)

[Drakul]

Thanks for all the great info.

from what you are showing, in a 7.1 setup, the middle speakers should never be in front of the listener. correct?

Now for my surrounds I was intrigues by the Martin Logan EM-FX2, they seem to be a sort of mix (sound effect wise) between the directness of Bipole and the envelopment of Dipole.
Do you have any experience with them?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Drakul

Thanks for all the great info.

from what you are showing, in a 7.1 setup, the middle speakers should never be in front of the listener. correct?

Now for my surrounds I was intrigues by the Martin Logan EM-FX2, they seem to be a sort of mix (sound effect wise) between the directness of Bipole and the envelopment of Dipole.
Do you have any experience with them?

I am not sure what you mean by middle speakers. Please explain.

All Martin Logan speakers are excellent. I own a Martin Logan center speaker, but I do not have any experience with their bipole surround speakers.

[Drakul]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

I am not sure what you mean by middle speakers. Please explain.

All Martin Logan speakers are excellent. I own a Martin Logan center speaker, but I do not have any experience with their bipole surround speakers.

I just mean the surrounds that are on the side walls, not on the back. The perpendicular of these speaker should never be in front of the listener?

Does that make sense?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Drakul

I just mean the surrounds that are on the side walls, not on the back. The perpendicular of these speaker should never be in front of the listener?

Does that make sense?

If the surround speakers are bipole, they will probably work. For dipole surround speakers to work properly, they should be on the same line as your main sofa so that you are sitting in their null spot.

[Drakul]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

If the surround speakers are bipole, they will probably work. For dipole surround speakers to work properly, they should be on the same line as your main sofa so that you are sitting in their null spot.

But not optimal correct?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Drakul

But not optimal correct?

It depends on how far in front of you they are installed. If it is only a foot or so ahead of you, you should be ok. Ideally, bipole surround speakers should be installed slightly to your rear and a couple of feet above your head when you are sitting down.

Remember, home theater is not an exact science. It is meant to be enjoyed. Even if you do not have an optimal setup, it can still be satisfactory and fun.

[Drakul]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

It depends on how far in front of you they are installed. If it is only a foot or so ahead of you, you should be ok. Ideally, bipole surround speakers should be installed slightly to your rear and a couple of feet above your head when you are sitting down.

Remember, home theater is not an exact science. It is meant to be enjoyed. Even if you do not have an optimal setup, it can still be satisfactory and fun.

Words of wisdom
But we're all here because we're OCD anal right?

[menglish6]

First, thank you Big Daddy for putting so much effort into these two threads, I've learned a ton reading them.

I'm in the early planning stages for setting up a theater in the basement, in half of a large open space. I have some standard surround placement questions related to the open side of the theater. However, my situation seems slightly different than those I've seen on these threads, specifically because of the ~4.5 foot side wall I have available on the rear of the open side.

I've attached a rough sketch-up of the plan so far for reference. One thing to note is that I don't think there is enough room for bipole / dipole speakers in the side surround location, it's a little less than 9" wide until above the door. I suppose it's possible there are some bipoles out there which are narrow enough to fit in this space, but I haven't had much luck finding any at this point.

So my question is basically whether it would be better to arrange my surrounds as pictured with monopole side surrounds and bipole rear surrounds in 7.1. Or if I would achieve basically the same surround effect / quality with simply the bipole surrounds, as located on the back wall, run as my side surrounds in 5.1 (or if there is some other configuration which would be even better).

[ron51]

I have a question for big daddy.
I have followed your advice. I have a 11 X 18 ft room.
I have decided to go with bipole speakers for side and back.
Yes I read that you ask that I install the side bipole speakers 2-3 ft higher then my head and slightly in back of my chair.

Question.. how far back from my chair? for the side speakers that is.
2-3 ft higher and then 1 ft? 2 ft? 3 ft? back. It must make a difference because if I put them too far back one side of the speakers will line up with my head turning it into a direct firing speaker.

[IronMan2]

Hello BD,

I landed on to your forum while browsing and researching for my speaker upgrade project. It is very very informative. I've a question that I would like you to answer. I presently have 2 "JBL Venue Series Stadium 8-Inch 3-Way Speakers" as my front L/R in HT and i really love them. After going through your articles on Bipole/Dipole, i'm thinking if I should upgrade my front's as well to "Definitive Technology Bipolar BP8B Floor-standing Speaker". I can afford to buy 2 of these with my budget. Would it make any differnce by adding BP8B and how good are these speakers.

Also could you please suggest 2 surrond speakers (bipole preferrably) in $200-300 range.

Thanks in advance .

[mblackm2]

Hey BD,

Thanks for all your input and research with this thread. As someone who is new to HT it has been extremely helpful and insightful. Although new to HT, I'm finding more and more of my free time to reading and learning about HT.

I had a quick question in which I am hoping that i can get your advice.

I currently have DefTech 8040ST. They are tower speakers with built in subs. My center is soon to be the 8060HD. I have an Elemental Design sub (A3-250) My question is what to do with my rear speakers.

Option 1:

Buy 2 more 8040ST's and sell my sub. So, 4 towers, a center and no sub. (Maybe some BP8040SR in the future for 7.0)

Option 2:

Buy a pair of BP8040SR's for my rears and a second A3-250 sub.

I'm less concerned about price with these two options and more concerned with the best sound for movies and TV. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again for all your work and effort!

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by ron51

I have a question for big daddy.
I have followed your advice. I have a 11 X 18 ft room.
I have decided to go with bipole speakers for side and back.
Yes I read that you ask that I install the side bipole speakers 2-3 ft higher then my head and slightly in back of my chair.

Question.. how far back from my chair? for the side speakers that is.
2-3 ft higher and then 1 ft? 2 ft? 3 ft? back. It must make a difference because if I put them too far back one side of the speakers will line up with my head turning it into a direct firing speaker.

If you are also using rear surround speakers in a 7.1 setup, don't install the side surround speakers too far behind you. If your system is only 5.1, you have a bit more flexibility. However, make sure one side of the bipole speakers is not too close to the rear wall as that can cause too much intererence.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by IronMan2

Hello BD,

I landed on to your forum while browsing and researching for my speaker upgrade project. It is very very informative. I've a question that I would like you to answer. I presently have 2 "JBL Venue Series Stadium 8-Inch 3-Way Speakers" as my front L/R in HT and i really love them. After going through your articles on Bipole/Dipole, i'm thinking if I should upgrade my front's as well to "Definitive Technology Bipolar BP8B Floor-standing Speaker". I can afford to buy 2 of these with my budget. Would it make any differnce by adding BP8B and how good are these speakers.

Also could you please suggest 2 surrond speakers (bipole preferrably) in $200-300 range.

Thanks in advance .

Bipole front speakers create a very large sound in a home theater. It is really a matter of personal taste. Many people like them. Go and listen to them before you buy them

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by mblackm2

Hey BD,

Thanks for all your input and research with this thread. As someone who is new to HT it has been extremely helpful and insightful. Although new to HT, I'm finding more and more of my free time to reading and learning about HT.

I had a quick question in which I am hoping that i can get your advice.

I currently have DefTech 8040ST. They are tower speakers with built in subs. My center is soon to be the 8060HD. I have an Elemental Design sub (A3-250) My question is what to do with my rear speakers.

Option 1:

Buy 2 more 8040ST's and sell my sub. So, 4 towers, a center and no sub. (Maybe some BP8040SR in the future for 7.0)

Option 2:

Buy a pair of BP8040SR's for my rears and a second A3-250 sub.

I'm less concerned about price with these two options and more concerned with the best sound for movies and TV. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again for all your work and effort!

It is not necessary to buy full-range speakers for the side and rear surround. Because the performance of a subwoofer in a small home theater room depends very much on the location of the subwoofer, it is generally better to have a separate external subwoofer. Also, there is not that much bass information that go to the surround speakers. It is best to set them to SMALL and let the stategically placed subwoofer generate all the lower frequencies.

[mblackm2]

Thank you! I just found your guide to bass mgt which backed up your answer with great detail and info. I guess i will get a A3-300. Thanks again.

[JBALL]

Big Daddy/all;

can someone clarify a confusing point I am wondering?

On this thread, it shows Dipole speakers with front tweeter (+) and back tweeter (-). I've seen some manufacturers actually put the front tweeter as (-) and the back tweeter as (+). Does it matter or do the two tweeters just need to be out of phase to each other?

thanks mates.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by JBALL

Big Daddy/all;

can someone clarify a confusing point I am wondering?

On this thread, it shows Dipole speakers with front tweeter (+) and back tweeter (-). I've seen some manufacturers actually put the front tweeter as (-) and the back tweeter as (+). Does it matter or do the two tweeters just need to be out of phase to each other?

thanks mates.

The positive means that the driver is connected in-phase. The negative means that the driver is connected out-of-phase. If the out-of-phase side of the dipole surround speakers are faced toward the front, there will be a high probability that the waves from the in-phase drivers from the front speakers and the out-of-phase waves from the dipole speakers will cancel each other. That is why you normally place the plus side of the dipole surround speakers toward the front.

[JBALL]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

The positive means that the driver is connected in-phase. The negative means that the driver is connected out-of-phase. If the out-of-phase side of the dipole surround speakers are faced toward the front, there will be a high probability that the waves from the in-phase drivers from the front speakers and the out-of-phase waves from the dipole speakers will cancel each other. That is why you normally place the plus side of the dipole surround speakers toward the front.

thanks Big Daddy but I was referring to just when the tweeters were out of phase (dipole) but the woofers were in phase (bipole).

[MikeCL]

I was thinking about getting a bipole setup for the rears for my room my room is square however my TV is in the corner because it's sitting on my desk and I use it as a PC monitor as well, so this means if I'm right I could have to place the bipole's in the rear but in the corner of each.

I'm hoping it sounds a little better then the monopole's I have now

[ron51]

Question for big daddy.
I have a friend that is setting himself up 7.1. The problem is that his main sitting couch in right up against his back wall. ( ouch) He already owns 4 tower speakers and 4 bipole speakers, I suggested that he use 1 pair of bipole for front height since he has NO BACK space behind his couch.
Now is it better for him to use 2 bipole on his back wall ( over top his head) and facing the the center of the room or on the side walls facing the center of the room. Or as a third option to forget about bipole as the side speakers and just use tower speakers as the side speakers. I know that not one of these option is a great option but which would be the best of the 3 options.