Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I like Vincent, but this video of his gets quoted more often than the Bible.

I own what some might call "too much stuff" and having this much has never made me ill or anxious. Why would it? It is both insurable and replaceable. That's one of the beauties of physical media: I can always get another copy, even if it is OOP.

Time to trot out another anecdote and apply it universally to all of humanity! All but one of my peers, a decided minimalist, owns a whole lot of stuff. The only difference being what that stuff happens to be, but over a lifetime they have amassed large collections of a variety of things. Go to a few estate sales and you will marvel at just how much we accumulate over our lifetimes. Whether it is discs or something else, the odds are that you will wind up with a lot of things before you are .

You and forum member stonesfan seem to vacillate between discs and digital often. His latest worry is about shelf space and I guess you are now anxious about developing anxieties.

I will keep buying discs for all of the reasons that I often stated, but I emphasize that actual unalterable ownership of the content that I buy is a non-negotiable must. Plus, many of my discs include the digital code as a little bonus. If you plan your purchases wisely, you can often get both disc and digital for about the same price as digital alone. Regardless, I am willing to pay more for something that I really own over what amounts to a lease with digital's etch-a-sketch terms that guarantee absolutely nothing.

You are entitled to keep buying discs, of course, but it doesn't matter if you 'own them,' or not, not to me! If I buy a film on Apple and I've watched it a couple of times, who cares if it goes missing? Okay, ideally I wouldn't like it to but it cost £4 for 4K HDR! Less than the price of a rental in HD. There are more important things to worry about.

I prefer to be a minimalist, looking at shelves full of things that are sitting there collecting dust is bad for anxiety, and mine in-particular. It bugs me that I can see them all the time and that I'm not watching any of them. Being someone like Coolduder (on e-bay) surrounded by films, so that he can no longer get in the room (okay, slight exaggeration, but close) would make me feel ill.

Personally, I will never buy a disc again unless it's a present for someone else.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Enjoy it while you can, Rocky will probably be back to HD next week.

Yeah, those of us with a projector are going to notice a huge difference A/V wise but if you are into trade offs I guess you can enjoy it?

Why would it be back in HD? Apple upgrade HD titles to 4K for free, when those titles become available, which is a big advantage.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Vilya

You guys are spoiled; you don't know what expensive really is.

In the 1990's, Criterion CAV laserdiscs routinely cost $125 each and I bought these often. Adjust that 90's price for inflation and that is equivalent to paying $211.71 for a single movie today.

After paying that kind of money regularly for a single movie back then, no import or OOP prices today faze me in the slightest.

But isn't that crazy? I mean, it's your money but to me, paying £25 for a film is far too much. I pre-ordered Jaws in 4K, but £35 for some tat and the 4K disc is stupidly expensive so I cancelled. That's one of the reasons I made the switch to digital.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yes, people who believe that crap are probably injecting disinfectant to beat the Corona Virus.

I’m a neat freak and it is not difficult to arrange discs in a organised, neat way.

It's not really about believing that crap, it's about the available space in a home and how fast shelves fill up. I was getting to the point where I would need yet another bookcase for the films. A house looks better with just furniture and a TV without discs everywhere. Also, to me (my opinion only), it looks really sad having a massive movie collection - physically. It looks like you are always in the house and that you don't have a life! That's the impression it gives off to people, potential girlfriends especially! At least digitally, you can hide your obsession!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by SCLee

It's not really about believing that crap, it's about the available space in a home and how fast shelves fill up. I was getting to the point where I would need yet another bookcase for the films. A house looks better with just furniture and a TV without discs everywhere. Also, to me (my opinion only), it looks really sad having a massive movie collection - physically. It looks like you are always in the house and that you don't have a life! That's the impression it gives off to people, potential girlfriends especially! At least digitally, you can hide your obsession!

To be fair, I never said you believed it. I was speaking in general terms.

Yeah, well I’m not going to care about other people. I do what makes me happy and film gives me a high. If I was to meet my dream woman she would have to accept me as I am. My love of film is very much part of my essence.
I think if you worry about what other people think of you all the time, you go to your grave having not truly released yourself from constraints that can affect your day to day life.
I’m sure many would consider me sad, that is fine. I’m not a pub guy so I go to the cinema, the theatre, I dine out and I go to soccer. At 45, I’m comfortable with who I am, I wouldn’t change my passions for anyone, regardless of whatever judgmental thoughts they may have.
I feel for you if you can’t be yourself because you are still in that box. I climbed out of it a long time ago.

As for the neatness aspect, my HT is in a dedicated room. My living room is just a tv with a Sky satellite box and a PS4/PS3/Pioneer UHD/Blu-ray player under it.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Why would it be back in HD? Apple upgrade HD titles to 4K for free, when those titles become available, which is a big advantage.

Yeah and then when people go to watch them, they sometimes revert back to HD for a while. See posts from a couple of pages back for proof.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

To be fair, I never said you believed it. I was speaking in general terms.

Yeah, well I’m not going to care about other people. I do what makes me happy and film gives me a high. If I was to meet my dream woman she would have to accept me as I am. My love of film is very much part of my essence.
I think if you worry about what other people think of you all the time, you go to your grave having not truly released yourself from constraints that can affect your day to day life.
I’m sure many would consider me sad, that is fine. I’m not a pub guy so I go to the cinema, the theatre, I dine out and I go to soccer. At 45, I’m comfortable with who I am, I wouldn’t change my passions for anyone, regardless of whatever judgmental thoughts they may have.
I feel for you if you can’t be yourself because you are still in that box. I climbed out of it a long time ago.

I'm glad you can be you Steedeel But you're single, are you not? Hey, I am too, and I think many collectors are. It takes a lot of time searching for films, buying them and watching them.

I honestly don't care what people think about me any more, I used to have social anxiety and I certainly did care then. Bottom line, I would rather be a minimalist. I am aware of how a big collection looks to women and others but I don't care about their opinion. Not really. Physical media isn't making me happy any more, if it's making you happy, great! Having a physical collection in 2020 is too much hassle. Searching for them, waiting for them to arrive, watching them once and onto the shelf they go! For how long? Months? Years?

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yeah and then when people go to watch them, they sometimes revert back to HD for a while. See posts from a couple of pages back for proof.

Only when the film first plays, for a couple of seconds, until the internet kicks in. A small price to pay IMO.

There are advantages and disadvantages, of course! Some films are on Apple in 4K HDR and stuck in HD on disc. Some films are on Apple in HD and they're in 4K on disc. However, if a 4K version becomes available (on Apple) it will be upgraded for free. The main issue is INTERNET and whether it goes down or not. If it does, I still have some series on physical media. Cost of Internet isn't an issue as I would be paying for that anyway.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Only when the film first plays, for a couple of seconds, until the internet kicks in. A small price to pay IMO.

There are advantages and disadvantages, of course! Some films are on Apple in 4K HDR and stuck in HD on disc. Some films are on Apple in HD and they're in 4K on disc. However, if a 4K version becomes available (on Apple) it will be upgraded for free. The main issue is INTERNET and whether it goes down or not. If it does, I still have some series on physical media. Cost of Internet isn't an issue as I would be paying for that anyway.

No, that’s not what was discussed. They are literally being downgraded, sometimes for two weeks or more.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by SCLee

I'm glad you can be you Steedeel But you're single, are you not? Hey, I am too, and I think many collectors are. It takes a lot of time searching for films, buying them and watching them.

I honestly don't care what people think about me any more, I used to have social anxiety and I certainly did care then. Bottom line, I would rather be a minimalist. I am aware of how a big collection looks to women and others but I don't care about their opinion. Not really. Physical media isn't making me happy any more, if it's making you happy, great! Having a physical collection in 2020 is too much hassle. Searching for them, waiting for them to arrive, watching them once and onto the shelf they go! For how long? Months? Years?

Searching for them? It takes a few seconds. Are we really that lazy as a society that we can’t pick a film from our cabinets?

That’s a piss poor excuse. Especially when you sacrifice such quality. I think you know that deep down. I can sense that you are not entirely happy with your choice.

By the way, I have dated woman who are massive film geeks. There are millions of women out there who are film fanatics. It’s not exclusive to guys.

[spider-neil]

Originally Posted by SCLee

But isn't that crazy? I mean, it's your money but to me, paying £25 for a film is far too much. I pre-ordered Jaws in 4K, but £35 for some tat and the 4K disc is stupidly expensive so I cancelled. That's one of the reasons I made the switch to digital.

I'll pay any fee for my favorite movies. I want to watch my all-time favorites in the highest quality possible. That's why I am not selling my favorite 4Ks even if they are on Disney Plus. The difference is I don't begrudge the people that do want to stream. How someone wants to watch a movie is up to them. They have to consider price, convenience, space, so you do what works for you.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by SCLee

But isn't that crazy? I mean, it's your money but to me, paying £25 for a film is far too much. I pre-ordered Jaws in 4K, but £35 for some tat and the 4K disc is stupidly expensive so I cancelled. That's one of the reasons I made the switch to digital.

I have been collecting movies for 35 years. Then as now, I wanted them in the best quality available and I was happy to pay the price for them. In the 90s, laserdiscs were a vast improvement over VHS tapes. I still own 179 of them out of a collection that was once 1200.

Quality matters. Ownership matters. Both of these are a must to this film enthusiast.

During the same time period, a colleague of mine spent $600 per month on Marlboro cigarettes for him and his wife. While he was working toward a diagnosis of Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease, I was building a film library. Which of us was the crazier?

Originally Posted by SCLee

It's not really about believing that crap, it's about the available space in a home and how fast shelves fill up. I was getting to the point where I would need yet another bookcase for the films. A house looks better with just furniture and a TV without discs everywhere. Also, to me (my opinion only), it looks really sad having a massive movie collection - physically. It looks like you are always in the house and that you don't have a life! That's the impression it gives off to people, potential girlfriends especially! At least digitally, you can hide your obsession!

All of my discs are neatly and alphabetically arranged by title within each format. They are on nice wooden shelves and they do not gather dust. I keep a very clean home. I think that my collection when seen in its entirety is awesome; it displays my lifetime's passion for a wondrous art form.

I have never been one to care what other people think; I seek no one's approval. Even so, no one has ever told me that I do not have a life because I own a movie collection. If they did, I would show them the exit and tell them not to let the door hit them in the a$$ on their way out. Many people that have seen my collection were very impressed by it and they always gravitate to my shelves to look at what I have. My movie collection gets more of an enthusiastic reaction than does my behemoth 85" TV and my home theater combined.

Many people own large collections of something. Large numbers of books can be found in some people's homes even though these can cost every bit as much, or more, as a movie does on 4K disc and these books often only get read once. Are the well read among us disparaged for their libraries?

The point is life is too short to worry about how other people feel about one's hobbies. I love my movie hobby and anyone that can't accept that about me is unwelcome in my life. I do not judge others for their interests and I will not tolerate being judged for mine.

Originally Posted by SCLee

I'm glad you can be you Steedeel But you're single, are you not? Hey, I am too, and I think many collectors are. It takes a lot of time searching for films, buying them and watching them.

I honestly don't care what people think about me any more, I used to have social anxiety and I certainly did care then. Bottom line, I would rather be a minimalist. I am aware of how a big collection looks to women and others but I don't care about their opinion. Not really. Physical media isn't making me happy any more, if it's making you happy, great! Having a physical collection in 2020 is too much hassle. Searching for them, waiting for them to arrive, watching them once and onto the shelf they go! For how long? Months? Years?

The amount of time spent searching for a film to buy, buying it, and watching it are the same no matter the format chosen. This is not an argument for any format as it is common to all of them.

Do what makes you happy by all means, but make sure that you are doing it for you and not to please someone else. Anyone that rejects you for your hobbies is too superficial and too judgmental. I do not want such frivolous and negative people in my life.

How often I watch a specific movie is irrelevant. The frequency of viewing will be the same regardless; it is my level of interest in the title that determines how often that I watch it, not the format. It takes as little as two days for my online disc orders to arrive and usually just 10 days when I order from other countries. The wait is trivial and I do have other titles here to watch while I await the arrival of new ones.

Originally Posted by SCLee

Only when the film first plays, for a couple of seconds, until the internet kicks in. A small price to pay IMO.

There are advantages and disadvantages, of course! Some films are on Apple in 4K HDR and stuck in HD on disc. Some films are on Apple in HD and they're in 4K on disc. However, if a 4K version becomes available (on Apple) it will be upgraded for free. The main issue is INTERNET and whether it goes down or not. If it does, I still have some series on physical media. Cost of Internet isn't an issue as I would be paying for that anyway.

Cost of internet service is an issue. If I did not want to stream in what passes for 4K over the internet, I could have a very basic internet plan that would cost me about $25 per month. In order to be able to stream in faux 4K, I have to have an internet plan that costs $80 per month and even with it I still have to stay within my data caps. The cost for this service will only increase, too.

The internet, at all plan price levels, does go down and sometimes for extended periods. At other times it bogs down to a snail's pace especially during prime time hours. When these things happen, and they happen too often, my digital collection of 652 titles may as well not even exist. It does not matter, though, as my discs and my electric utility are far more reliable than is my internet service. I can even play my discs when the power does go out albeit on a device with a much smaller screen.

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by Vilya

You guys are spoiled; you don't know what expensive really is.

In the 1990's, Criterion CAV laserdiscs routinely cost $125 each and I bought these often. Adjust that 90's price for inflation and that is equivalent to paying $211.71 for a single movie today.

After paying that kind of money regularly for a single movie back then, no import or OOP prices today faze me in the slightest.

Believe me, I know the deal about laserdiscs, as I was a supporter once I got into the workforce. I went from shitty VHS to LD. I dropped a lot of money on the LD format. The first laserdisc I bought was the special edition of Strange Days. A couple of weeks later I bought the Criterion edition of Pulp Fiction for $129.99. I was also blessed to have a laserdisc rental shop in my city, so I could also rent out laserdiscs, as well. Those were the days!

I just don't want to make it a habit on dropping tons of cash on one individual release.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have been collecting movies for 35 years. Then as now, I wanted them in the best quality available and I was happy to pay the price for them.

A great post Vilya.

Many years ago I too smoked cigarettes till I saw charts showing how various diseases set in vs age and private health insurance was almost double that of a non-smoker. So I stopped smoking, prepared a spreadsheet in Quattro (Borland) tallying my tobacco expenditures and used that money to buy LaserDisc and/or hardware.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Hey Steedeel we are knocked senseless, but Sound Systems are expensive and the next day they are outdated. You can buy the latest equipment today, and tomorrow it is outdated. So like any Tech, buy the best today and hope for the best by tomorrow. We all try to stay above the curve!

like with anything people can spend tons of money on anything if thy want. But t your point makes zero sense what so ever.

there can be differences between speakers, but let's say in 1980 someone bought quality stereo speakers, and in 2000 they decided to go 5.1 they could still use their 2 speakers (assuming they still worked and he is still happy with them ) and just buy the missing speakers. If in 2010 they decided to move to 7.2 (assuming they still worked and he is still happy with them ) all they need to do is buy the missing speakers. If in 2020 they want to add overhead speakers they could just buy and add overhead while the rest remains exactly the same.

Now if we are talking AVR then it needs replacing to upgrade audio (so roughly every decade to keep in line with changing tech). there is also a choice, do you also send video through it? If yes then it needs replacing more often (we had DVD then BD then 3D BD then 4k then 4k HDR, 8k...)

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Searching for them? It takes a few seconds. Are we really that lazy as a society that we can’t pick a film from our cabinets?

That’s a piss poor excuse. Especially when you sacrifice such quality. I think you know that deep down. I can sense that you are not entirely happy with your choice.

By the way, I have dated woman who are massive film geeks. There are millions of women out there who are film fanatics. It’s not exclusive to guys.

Searching for them as in - online and in the shops. I should have made that clearer. I'm very happy with my choice, I've already started raking it in on e-bay by selling my physical media.

I'm not sacrificing any quality, as seen on the video and no doubt he (a professional calibrator) was watching on 65 inch TV screens. He was also using the best UHD player on the market by the way and OLED TV's. I'm watching on 55 and 50 inch screens. He couldn't tell the difference at normal viewing distance and neither can I. Bottom line, streaming is much, much cheaper and more convenient- for the same picture quality. Sound is a different matter (much better on disc) but then I don't care about sound quality. It sounds great to me.

I'll answer the other posts later, absolutely knackered atm.

[cheez avenger]

Oh, and as Wendell pointed out, legacy equipment rocks. My JBL/Infinity soundsystem is about 20 years old. In the last 20 years the only thing that has gotten replaced was the AVR. I'm on my 3rd AVR and that's because I needed the upgrade for Atmos. I still have my second AVR, which works perfectly. That link he posted on inexpensive AVRs is invaluable, so bookmark it.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Searching for them as in - online and in the shops. I should have made that clearer. I'm very happy with my choice, I've already started raking it in on e-bay by selling my physical media.

I'm not sacrificing any quality, as seen on the video and no doubt he (a professional calibrator) was watching on 65 inch TV screens. He was also using the best UHD player on the market by the way and OLED TV's. I'm watching on 55 and 50 inch screens. He couldn't tell the difference at normal viewing distance and neither can I. Bottom line, streaming is much, much cheaper and more convenient- for the same picture quality. Sound is a different matter (much better on disc) but then I don't care about sound quality. It sounds great to me.

I'll answer the other posts later, absolutely knackered atm.

You are misrepresenting what Vincent said. He did not say that there were NO differences at normal viewing distances; he said that they were marginal with the Apple 4K TV. One's tolerance for imperfections varies with the viewer and Vincent was certainly correct that most people are not bothered by streaming's artifacts, its lower fine detail, its worse resolving of dark scenes, and its lackluster lossy audio. Apple 4K TV is one of the better digital streaming providers, but Vincent very specifically describes a number of flaws with the streamed presentation. Some of us care about such things while most, like you, do not.

Your choice only needs to please you, but your lesser than choice of digital purchases will never please me. I want true ownership, the best video quality, and, yes, the best audio quality. No amount of imaginary convenience or dubious at best cost rationalization will ever change my mind.

When you factor in the cost of digital purchases and the cost of higher tier internet service plans that they require, streaming is not as much of a bargain as it appears. It isn't very convenient when the internet service goes down or slows to a crawl, either; such dependency on an often flaky network and overtaxed servers is more frustrating than convenient. Your digital library will ALWAYS require that ever more expensive and often unreliable internet service even if you stop buying digital titles; you must pay this cost forever just to access what you think that you "own." My discs do not incur any such ongoing support expenses. Loading and watching a disc is just as effortless as launching any streaming app and searching for the desired title within that app. For me, the only convenience offered by digital libraries is the remote access that they provide.

Again, searching for a film to buy takes the same amount of time regardless of the format. Searching for a disc to buy online takes no more, and no less, time than does searching for a title to buy from a digital provider. This is a ridiculous argument as the time spent shopping either format is identical.

If I wanted to "rake it in" I could sell my digital codes, too, but I have better uses for both them and my time. I donate my duplicate discs to libraries, schools, and shelters as the warm fuzzy feeling that I get from doing so is worth far more than the small change that an ebay sale would earn me after the huge hassle of paying to ship items and paying their commissions; no thanks.

[sapiendut]

Plus, not everything that comes out of Vincent’s mouth can be considered as gospel.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Plus, not everything that comes out of Vincent’s mouth can be considered as gospel.

Can anything?