A Guide to Bipolar, Dipolar, & Direct-Radiating Monopole Surround Speakers (PART I)

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by DonRSD

BD aka The All Knowing Oracle

i have a 5.1 setup with my rears ON the rear wall above my couch (CLICK HERE TO SEE)

is it ok to run my polk fxi a3 5.1 rears (above) in DIPOLE MODE?

No, it is better to leave them in bipole mode. Dipole works best when you are sitting in their null position.

Generally speaking, sitting against the wall is not a good idea, particularly for bass sound. It makes the sound from the subwoofer boomy and exaggerated. That may explain why you are hearing male voices through the subwoofer when you set the LPF of LFE to 120Hz.

[jomari]

Sitting against the wall is a great formula for standing waves accumulating, thus ruining the experience.

keep it at Bipole as suggested, or experiment. this is of course, your home theater, you make that ultimate decision.

*edited* sorry, i meant bipole. i prefer bipoles as well.

[Aerodude73]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

No, it is better to leave them in Bipole mode. Dipole works best when you are sitting in their null position.

Generally speaking, sitting against the wall is not a good idea, particularly for bass sound. It makes the sound from the subwoofer boomy and exaggerated. That may explain why you are hearing male voices through the subwoofer when you set the LPF of LFE to 120Hz.

All Four of my Surrounds are in BIPOLE mode & Sound Amazing IMO!

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by Aerodude73

All Four of my Surrounds are in BIPOLE mode & Sound Amazing IMO!

Since you have all four, have you tried them in DI-pole mode? I know with the Monitor Audio's they recommend di-pole if you are using four of the same.

Big Daddy was telling me about switching connections or the left with the right speakers around if you go into the di-pole mode.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by HAMP

Since you have all four, have you tried them in DI-pole mode? I know with the Monitor Audio's they recommend di-pole if you are using four of the same.

Big Daddy was telling me about switching connections or the left with the right speakers around if you go into the di-pole mode.

This is what you were referring to.

Dipole surround speakers are typically labeled Left and Right so that, when you place them on the sides, the in-phase drivers are pointing towards the front of the room. This allows them to be in phase with your front speakers and avoid cancellation problems that can occur when out of phase drivers are facing each other.

If, in a 7.x setup, you decide to use another pair of dipole surround speakers in the rear, you will have to place the left speaker on the right side and the right speaker on the left side as in the diagram below. This is to avoid cancellation problem when the speakers are out of phase. If you decide to use direct radiating speakers or bipole speakers in the rear, you will not need any special consideration.

[SurferJoe]

Big Daddy maybe you could help give me some direction here. I have a room that really doesn't have side walls that I can mount surrounds to and the back wall has a columned hallway separating it from another open room (see my poor illustration). I would like some advice on what would be the best surround speaker setup / speaker types for my situation I want to have a 7.1 system? I was thinking of these on the columns and in the ceiling. http://www.definitivetech.com/Produc...UIW%20RSS%20II

Any thoughts on this would be great.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by SurferJoe

Big Daddy maybe you could help give me some direction here. I have a room that really doesn't have side walls that I can mount surrounds to and the back wall has a columned hallway separating it from another open room (see my poor illustration). I would like some advice on what would be the best surround speaker setup / speaker types for my situation I want to have a 7.1 system? I was thinking of these on the columns and in the ceiling. http://www.definitivetech.com/Produc...UIW%20RSS%20II

Any thoughts on this would be great.

Get bipolar speakers and hang them from the ceiling with brackets or chains. As far as installation is concerned, bipolar surround speakers are more flexible than dipolar surround speakers. You can also attach them to the columns. Make sure they are attached somewhere between the height of your ears when you are sitting down and the ceiling.

[SurferJoe]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Get bipolar speakers and hang them from the ceiling with brackets or chains.

Unfortunately the hanging speakers from the ceiling won't fly with my wife, walls would be ok if I had them. I have considered hanging them on the columns but would like to match the other surround speakers if possible. It would seem that I will have to use a in ceiling speaker for at least the side surrounds. Any opinions here? and do you know of any bipolar speakers that use ribbon tweeters?

[Drew664]

Originally Posted by SurferJoe

Unfortunately the hanging speakers from the ceiling won't fly with my wife, walls would be ok if I had them. I have considered hanging them on the columns but would like to match the other surround speakers if possible. It would seem that I will have to use a in ceiling speaker for at least the side surrounds. Any opinions here? and do you know of any bipolar speakers that use ribbon tweeters?

http://www.sunfire.com/productdetail.asp?id=26

Pricey though at $1700 for a pair.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by SurferJoe

Unfortunately the hanging speakers from the ceiling won't fly with my wife, walls would be ok if I had them. I have considered hanging them on the columns but would like to match the other surround speakers if possible. It would seem that I will have to use a in ceiling speaker for at least the side surrounds. Any opinions here? and do you know of any bipolar speakers that use ribbon tweeters?

We all have to make compromises because of wives. There are some good quality in-wall speakers that should give you decent surround effect. A lot of well-known speaker companies make in-wall speakers.

Ribbon tweeters are excellent for front speakers. They are a waste of money for surround speakers.

[SurferJoe]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

We all have to make compromises because of wives. There are some good quality in-wall speakers that should give you decent surround effect. A lot of well-known speaker companies make in-wall speakers.

Ribbon tweeters are excellent for front speakers. They are a waste of money for surround speakers.

Thanks Big Daddy

[crazyBLUE]

OK Big Daddy

I have something I want to ask your opinion on . I want to raise my surround & surround rears .

At Present :

The fronts tweeters are right at ear level .

The surrounds ( 4 ) The tweeter is about 2 inches below ear level ( give or take A half inch )

The surrounds are 4 1/2 feet away & the surround rears are about 3 1/2 feet away .

I want to go straight up with them by building stands .

#1 . Should I build all four stands the same height ? Or should I built them offset from each other ~ rears taller then the surrounds or the other way around .

#2 . How much higher would you recommend for my setup ~ in my room ~ would you have the tweeter above my ear level ?

I don't want to hang them from the ceiling


As always thanks for your help Before hand & just remember you started this over A year ago

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

OK Big Daddy

I have something I want to ask your opinion on . I want to raise my surround & surround rears .

At Present :

The fronts tweeters are right at ear level .

The surrounds ( 4 ) The tweeter is about 2 inches below ear level ( give or take A half inch )

The surrounds are 4 1/2 feet away & the surround rears are about 3 1/2 feet away .

I want to go straight up with them by building stands .

#1 . Should I build all four stands the same height ? Or should I built them offset from each other ~ rears taller then the surrounds or the other way around .

#2 . How much higher would you recommend for my setup ~ in my room ~ would you have the tweeter above my ear level ?

I don't want to hang them from the ceiling


As always thanks for your help Before hand & just remember you started this over A year ago

If your interest is mostly music, build the stands so that all tweeters are the same level as the front speakers.

If your interest is mostly movies and surround sound, it is advantageous for surround speakers to be higher than the front speakers (at least a foot or more above your head). They can give you more of a three-dimensional height effect.

This hobby is getting crazy and out of control for you. I suggest that you sell your speakers and pick up a less expensive hobby.

[eddysnake]

After replacing my front speakers, I'm looking to do the same with the surround. I'm looking at the Polk FXi A4 or 6, but I'm not sure if it will work with my setup.

In my gallery, you can see how my rears are currently mounted on stands coming from the wall. Would the FXi work on the stands if there is no wall directly behind them? I'm afraid the very back of the wall is too far from my listening area and will be difficult to mount because of the doors.

You can't see from the pictures, but I'm afraid mounting on the sides won't work either as there is a door next to the couch and the speaker would have to be moved in front of the door on the wall which would be in front of the actual listening area.

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

If your interest is mostly music, build the stands so that all tweeters are the same level as the front speakers.

If your interest is mostly movies and surround sound, it is advantageous for surround speakers to be higher than the front speakers (at least a foot or more above your head). They can give you more of a three-dimensional height effect.

This hobby is getting crazy and out of control for you. I suggest that you sell your speakers and pick up a less expensive hobby.

I don't use the surrounds for Music so I will be needing to raise them with stands to get the right effect .

Thanks for your opinion again as always Big Daddy !

I would change my Hobby But I am just trying to get to your level of HT ~ In the next 20 years or so

[jedrgy]

Hey Big Daddy,

I was thinking of pulling out the drivers on one side of my bi-pole speakers and reversing the wires to make them di-pole. Should I only change the phase of the mid-range and not the tweeter or should I change both?

Thanks!

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by jedrgy

Hey Big Daddy,

I was thinking of pulling out the drivers on one side of my bi-pole speakers and reversing the wires to make them di-pole. Should I only change the phase of the mid-range and not the tweeter or should I change both?

Thanks!

My recommendation is not to mess with the speakers. Bipole speakers are more flexible as far as placement is concerned and they have better bass response than dipole. For dipole speakers, you have to sit exactly in their null spot.

If you want to experiment and possibly mess up your speakers performance, make sure both drivers are out of phase. Remember the original wiring in case you change your mind.

[jedrgy]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

My recommendation is not to mess with the speakers. Bipole speakers are more flexible as far as placement is concerned and they have better bass response than dipole. For dipole speakers, you have to sit exactly in their null spot.

If you want to experiment and possibly mess up your speakers performance, make sure both drivers are out of phase. Remember the original wiring in case you change your mind.

I feel pretty confident in opening my speakers up. In the past, i've had to take out a tweeter on my towers (def tech bp2002) that was going bad. It was easy enough with those but you're right about marking the wires positive and negative cause they didn't!

I really just want to experiment with it, some people swear by dipoles and I'd like to see if I hear a difference.

Thanks for your help!

[mayo29]

A monopole and a direct radiator are not the same thing. Most dipoles and bipoles ARE direct radiators. And there are monoples that AREN'T direct radiators. Monopolar describes the direction in which a driver is pointing; direct radiating decribes the manner in which a driver is coupled to the air.

A direct radiator is a speaker in which the diaphragm acts directly against the air without an intervening device. Examples of non direct radiating speakers are horns and bandpass boxes. An example of a non direct radiating monopole is a Klipschorn. Or an Altec VOT.

Some speakers are a mixture of horn loaded and direct radiating such as an Altec Model 19 which uses a direct radiating woofer and horn loaded treble. Another example would be a full range driver like a Lowther loaded to a back horn; frequencies above about 200hz are radiated directly from the cone while frequencies below 200hz come mainly from the horn.

The only non direct radiating dipolar syatem I've seen is a DIY EV horn system a friend built which has horns pointing front and rear and wired out of polarity from each other.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Tufelhundin

Anyone have any thoughts for Front Height speakers? Should one want to get direct, di or bi? Does it really matter?

According to Chris Kyriakakis of Audyssey, the wide/height speakers for Audyssey DSX should be direct (not dipole or bipole) and timbre matched with the three front speakers.

http://ask.audyssey.com/entries/98040-speakers-for-dsx

The general idea is to have the DSX Wide and Height speakers match the timbre of your front LCR speakers. Typically this is achieved by using speakers from the same family line as the fronts.

Audyssey DSX Wides and Heights should be direct radiators. Smaller speakers will be fine. Running MultEQ will help bring their response closer to that of the fronts.

For additional information, read post #144 of https://forum.blu-ray.com/audio-theo...io-codecs.html.