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Old 08-11-2021, 12:04 AM   #41
Alan Gordon Alan Gordon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyMLVC View Post
There shouldn't be any confusion. It's expensive to join and none of the remaining studios see a reason to pay the fees. It's that simple.
If memory serves, UV costs were split between retailers and the studios. MA costs are bankrolled by the studios, with retailers paying little to no money.

Paramount and Lionsgate could very well have lost enough money on UV Family Sharing to spend the difference on MA costs. Granted, as you say, they obviously don't see a reason to pay that fee. I personally think that's shortsighted, but they didn't ask me.
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Old 08-11-2021, 12:12 AM   #42
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Not Paramount related, since I don't expect them to join in 2021, but I'd really like to see Movies Anywhere have SOMETHING cool for their fourth anniversary in two months.

Movies Anywhere is a great service, but outside of Watch Together and Screen Passes, they've been pretty stagnant. No new studio support (not counting HBO), no TV support (that they teased shortly after launch). Random inconsistencies still across storefronts, etc.
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Old 08-11-2021, 12:40 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gordon View Post
  • "The Avengers" (Disney)
  • "The Addams Family" (Animated) [MGM]
  • "Bill & Ted Face The Music" (MGM)
  • "The Hustle" (MGM)
  • "Romeo + Juliet" (Fox/Disney)
  • "Playing With Fire" (MGM)
  • "King Arthur" (Touchstone/Disney)
  • "I Know What You Did Last Summer" (Sony)
  • "Cliffhanger" (Sony)
  • "Arachnophobia" (Hollywood Pictures/Disney)
  • "Rudy" (Sony)
  • "Seabiscuit" (Universal)
  • "Kingpin" (MGM)

Just a few titles listed above.

I'd say 10% of the titles are not Paramount owned. Maybe less, but they do exist.
The Avengers-
Co-produced by Paramount, this was part of contract before Disney bought Marvel. All the Iron Man, Thor, CA movies were all co-produced by Paramount. I think the final was CA: Civil War.

The rest, OK you're right.
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Old 08-11-2021, 01:00 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjritter79 View Post
The Avengers-
Co-produced by Paramount, this was part of contract before Disney bought Marvel. All the Iron Man, Thor, CA movies were all co-produced by Paramount. I think the final was CA: Civil War.

The rest, OK you're right.
I knew you were going to bring up the co-production, and started to delete it from the list, but left it in.

Paramount only produced the first Thor and Captain America movies, along with the first two Iron Man films. They even released the original Blu-ray releases to those films as well.

Iron Man 1-2
Thor
Captain America: The First Avenger
Marvel's The Avengers

Paramount CO-produced "Marvel's The Avengers" along with Disney, who released that on Blu-ray themselves. It was Paramount's final involvement with the MCU.
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Old 08-11-2021, 01:02 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by casperuk View Post
i am surprised that Sony didn't make the PS Store it's go to for all things movies and have that link to MA either.
Two different divisions. Everything PlayStation was run by Sony Interactive Entertainment, a totally different marketing strategy involved. That's also why despite its popularity among subscribers (800K at one time) PS Vue was shut-down. The cost of programming on the streaming service outweighed the benefits of selling PlayStations...which was the reason PS Vue was created in the first place despite numerous advertising literature stating you DIDN'T need a PlayStation to survive.

...And before you ask, usually no, there is no interactivity between divisions within a company.
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Old 08-11-2021, 01:06 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gordon View Post
I knew you were going to bring up the co-production, and started to delete it from the list, but left it in.

Paramount only produced the first Thor and Captain America movies, along with the first two Iron Man films. They even released the original Blu-ray releases to those films as well.

Iron Man 1-2
Thor
Captain America: The First Avenger
Marvel's The Avengers

Paramount CO-produced "Marvel's The Avengers" along with Disney, who released that on Blu-ray themselves. It was Paramount's final involvement with the MCU.
OK, I thought it was Civil War.....i wasn't going to go back and rewatch them to make sure!
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Old 08-11-2021, 01:19 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjritter79 View Post
OK, I thought it was Civil War.....i wasn't going to go back and rewatch them to make sure!
I noticed that whenever I did a quick glance at Paramount+'s movie catalog that it included a fair amount of MGM titles, and I just verified that MGM has a sub-licensing deal with Paramount+ left, most likely due to MGM's buyout of Viacom's stake in EPIX.

A quick look at the EPIX movie library shows a great deal of Paramount titles, as well as some of the other non-MGM titles like "Romeo + Juliet" (20th Century Studios/Disney) and "I Know What You Did Last Summer" (Sony) that show up on Paramount+.
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Old 08-11-2021, 09:13 AM   #48
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I get that people are saying it's all about cost to the studios, but come on, in reality, it's about making money and not sharing their IP with anyone else.

Spotify taught he music industry there is money in streaming...
Netflix has taught the movie industry that there is money in streaming...

difference really here is the movie industry is more likely, and it's already happening, to segment the market as much as possible.
it did surprise me that MA happened. it also surprised me that they released it in North America only seeing as UV was available in other countries, say what you want here, the NA is not the biggest market for movies anymore and hasn't been for a while. yeah I know China aren't going to allow something like MA to happen, I'm not saying that. but UV albeit rubbish outside of the US, was still a thing outside of the US.

but then we get into the streaming services.

HBO Max/Discovery+ (everyone knows this will merge at some point)
Paramount+
Disney+
Amazon Prime (more than likely will add MGM back catalogue if the sale happens)
Peacock
i'm missing some here.

Disney have already pulled it's movies and TV shows from Netflix and I think Amazon Prime, they have done the same to the UK/European satellite provider Sky (now owned by comcast). and this is because of Disney+ being available in these regions.

as licensing deals expire, you will only be able to use these VOD services to access content from Disney or Paramount, things like MA aren't going to exist for much longer. UV died because it was useless outside of the US, there was one retailer in the UK that linked to a UV account, Blinkbox, and that was awful to use.

imo MA will go the same way, and again imo, i feel like it's a stop gap to allow users to port the movies they have bought so they don't lose them. when UV died, everyone was given codes to so you could add the movies to your Google Play account, not everyone had a Google account. remember what i said about being locked into an Ecosystem? and it wasn't a very user friendly experience for those who didn't have a Google account, yeah it's free to setup, but if you use Apple why setup something you might never use.

MA gives you that comfort blanket, knowing that you have your movies in VUDU/Apple/GP/Fandango and the rest and it all links. then they will close this service, say thanks for spending your hard earned dollars. now use our streaming service to get the newer movies, and they will just leave what you have in place.

Please remember we never really own our digital libraries, they are just a massively long term lease and the studios just shift what you "own" around to make sure there isn't any backlash from it going away. this lease can be revoked at any time.

Lionsgate is the one that will suffer the most from this as they don't have their own platform, but have loads of content they like to use badly, so Netlifx imo will either cut a deal or buy them at some point as Netflix has a lot of content, but only a small amount of it is good content. then again you never know, Lionsgate's own website says they are making money.

the last thing i will say is this.

what would a company rather have from you.. a one off single purchase of between $3 - $40 for a blu-ray/dvd/digital copy or a nice fixed income of $7.99 a month/$80 a year? and on top of that knowing that will you still go see their content in the cinema and maybe spend anywhere between $10 to $70 just on tickets depending on what screening type you go to or how many people you go with.

Last edited by casperuk; 08-11-2021 at 09:17 AM. Reason: speeling errors :S
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Old 08-11-2021, 09:15 AM   #49
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Off topic but Paramount+ is coming to the U.K. this year I understand.
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Old 08-11-2021, 09:21 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casperuk View Post
I get that people are saying it's all about cost to the studios, but come on, in reality, it's about making money and not sharing their IP with anyone else.

Spotify taught he music industry there is money in streaming...
Netflix has taught the movie industry that there is money in streaming...

difference really here is the movie industry is more likely, and it's already happening, to segment the market as much as possible.
it did surprise me that MA happened. it also surprised me that they released it in North America only seeing as UV was available in other countries, say what you want here, the NA is not the biggest market for movies anymore and hasn't been for a while. yeah I know China aren't going to allow something like MA to happen, I'm not saying that. but UV albeit rubbish outside of the US, was still a thing outside of the US.

but then we get into the streaming services.

HBO Max/Discovery+ (everyone knows this will merge at some point)
Paramount+
Disney+
Amazon Prime (more than likely will add MGM back catalogue if the sale happens)
Peacock
i'm missing some here.

Disney have already pulled it's movies and TV shows from Netflix and I think Amazon Prime, they have done the same to the UK/European satellite provider Sky (now owned by comcast). and this is because of Disney+ being available in these regions.

as licensing deals expire, you will only be able to use these VOD services to access content from Disney or Paramount, things like MA aren't going to exist for much longer. UV died because it useless outside of the US, there was one retailer in the UK that linked to a UV account, Blinkbox, and that was awful to use.

imo MA will go the same way, and again imo, i feel like it's a stop gap to allow users to port the movies they have bought so they don't lose them. when UV died, everyone was given codes to so you could add the movies to your Google Play account, not everyone had a Google account. remember what i said about being locked into an Ecosystem? and it wasn't a very user friendly expectance for those who didn't have a Google account.

MA gives you that comfort blanket, knowing that you have your movies in VUDU/Apple/GP/Fandango and the rest and it all links. then they will close this service, say thanks for spending your hard earned dollars. now use our streaming service to get the newer movies, and they will just leave what you have in place.

Please remember we never really own our digital libraries, they are just a massively long term lease and the studios just shift what you "own" around to make sure there isn't any backlash from it going away. this lease can be revoked at any time.

Lionsgate is the one that will suffer the most from this as they don't have their own platform, but have loads of content they like to use badly, so Netlifx imo will either cut a deal or buy them at some point as Netflix has a lot of content, but only a small amount of it is good content. then again you never know, Lionsgate's own website says they are making money.

the last thing i will say is this.

what would a company rather have from you.. a one off single purchase of between $3 - $40 for a blu-ray/dvd/digital copy or a nice fixed income of $7.99 a month/$80 a year? and on top of that knowing that will you still go see their content in the cinema and maybe spend anywhere between $10 to $70 just on tickets depending on what screening type you go to or how many people you go with.
Agree about MA. It came too late and the subscription streaming model is the genie that isnít going back in the bottle.

UV was a ****** disaster in the U.K. a total mess. I wouldnít have joined anyway due to my love of Blu-Ray and 4K, but there wasnít even a conversation around digital lockers and UV. Not a single person I knew had heard of it.
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Old 08-11-2021, 09:41 AM   #51
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Disney runs Movies Anywhere
Disney runs Disney+ which makes way more money
Other studios are trying to make their own (studio)+ and it's taking shape.

How long before Disney pulls the rug from people who think they "own" movies on Movies Anywhere ?

I don't know how long discs will continue to be made but it's my solution to collecting movies.
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Old 08-11-2021, 10:26 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhampton View Post
Disney runs Movies Anywhere
Disney runs Disney+ which makes way more money
Other studios are trying to make their own (studio)+ and it's taking shape.

How long before Disney pulls the rug from people who think they "own" movies on Movies Anywhere ?

I don't know how long discs will continue to be made but it's my solution to collecting movies.
Iím half expecting Paramount to be involved in a merger, itís going to be a tough sell otherwise. Even in the U.K., where we donít have HBO Max and Hulu, things are getting out of hand. Too many services and something has to give.

As for MA, I donít think itís a great proposition at the moment. Itís like the unloved child.
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Old 08-11-2021, 11:02 AM   #53
bhampton bhampton is offline
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I'm just glad I have movies I like.

$80/year for just one studio is not something I want to do for long. Renting movies has never been so expensive.

I do Disney+ for now because one of my kids is a marvel fanatic but I never open the app and I won't watch Black Widow again until I have the superior disc version.

I skipped streaming Quiet Place 2 for free and waited for the disc because streaming just lacks quality.

I'll buy the discs while I can I bet they remain the best option and the highest quality for the course of my lifetime.
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Old 08-11-2021, 11:37 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhampton View Post
I'm just glad I have movies I like.

$80/year for just one studio is not something I want to do for long. Renting movies has never been so expensive.

I do Disney+ for now because one of my kids is a marvel fanatic but I never open the app and I won't watch Black Widow again until I have the superior disc version.

I skipped streaming Quiet Place 2 for free and waited for the disc because streaming just lacks quality.

I'll buy the discs while I can I bet they remain the best option and the highest quality for the course of my lifetime.
Same here.
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Old 08-11-2021, 11:58 AM   #55
tjritter79 tjritter79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casperuk View Post
I get that people are saying it's all about cost to the studios, but come on, in reality, it's about making money and not sharing their IP with anyone else.

Spotify taught he music industry there is money in streaming...
Netflix has taught the movie industry that there is money in streaming...

difference really here is the movie industry is more likely, and it's already happening, to segment the market as much as possible.
it did surprise me that MA happened. it also surprised me that they released it in North America only seeing as UV was available in other countries, say what you want here, the NA is not the biggest market for movies anymore and hasn't been for a while. yeah I know China aren't going to allow something like MA to happen, I'm not saying that. but UV albeit rubbish outside of the US, was still a thing outside of the US.

but then we get into the streaming services.

HBO Max/Discovery+ (everyone knows this will merge at some point)
Paramount+
Disney+
Amazon Prime (more than likely will add MGM back catalogue if the sale happens)
Peacock
i'm missing some here.

Disney have already pulled it's movies and TV shows from Netflix and I think Amazon Prime, they have done the same to the UK/European satellite provider Sky (now owned by comcast). and this is because of Disney+ being available in these regions.

as licensing deals expire, you will only be able to use these VOD services to access content from Disney or Paramount, things like MA aren't going to exist for much longer. UV died because it was useless outside of the US, there was one retailer in the UK that linked to a UV account, Blinkbox, and that was awful to use.

imo MA will go the same way, and again imo, i feel like it's a stop gap to allow users to port the movies they have bought so they don't lose them. when UV died, everyone was given codes to so you could add the movies to your Google Play account, not everyone had a Google account. remember what i said about being locked into an Ecosystem? and it wasn't a very user friendly experience for those who didn't have a Google account, yeah it's free to setup, but if you use Apple why setup something you might never use.

MA gives you that comfort blanket, knowing that you have your movies in VUDU/Apple/GP/Fandango and the rest and it all links. then they will close this service, say thanks for spending your hard earned dollars. now use our streaming service to get the newer movies, and they will just leave what you have in place.

Please remember we never really own our digital libraries, they are just a massively long term lease and the studios just shift what you "own" around to make sure there isn't any backlash from it going away. this lease can be revoked at any time.

Lionsgate is the one that will suffer the most from this as they don't have their own platform, but have loads of content they like to use badly, so Netlifx imo will either cut a deal or buy them at some point as Netflix has a lot of content, but only a small amount of it is good content. then again you never know, Lionsgate's own website says they are making money.

the last thing i will say is this.

what would a company rather have from you.. a one off single purchase of between $3 - $40 for a blu-ray/dvd/digital copy or a nice fixed income of $7.99 a month/$80 a year? and on top of that knowing that will you still go see their content in the cinema and maybe spend anywhere between $10 to $70 just on tickets depending on what screening type you go to or how many people you go with.
What you're NOT understanding is there is NO financial benefit to either of the outside three joining MA (MGM, Paramount or Lionsgate).

If you use iTunes exclusively, and you buy "Star Trek" anything on iTunes....how does "going MA" benefit Paramount? You already BOUGHT the title on iTunes, the fact that it potentially now spreads to Google Play, VUDU, Amazon, etc neither benefits the consumer who bought it OR the studio who sold it.....and to DO that it COSTS the studio a "fee".

Now what about users who use several services? I've been buying digital for 6 years now. I'd be pretty pissed if lo and behold Transformers bundle, which I own on BOTH iTunes and Vudu....suddenly goes MA and the realization that I bought it twice when if I just waited......didn't have to?

You're only looking at a single-side of the coin, you cannot do that if you're a business out to make money...unless you write the MA fees off as a "promotional expense"....THEN it may be worth it...
Which is WHY I said months ago and still believe today, if Paramount was going to join MA sooner rather than later, the PERFECT time was during the relaunch of Paramount+. That PR bump and brand awareness would have given an even larger jump to Paramount+ in my opinion. PR that would have more than justified the fees. That didn't happen, I really have doubts now it ever will.

.....Lionsgate owns STARZ by the way!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starz
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Old 08-11-2021, 12:11 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjritter79 View Post
.....Lionsgate owns STARZ by the way!
Yep, Starz is owned by Lionsgate, but the streaming service is more Starz on Demand - much in the same way HBO Go and Max Go are or were.
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Old 08-11-2021, 12:25 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhampton View Post
Disney runs Movies Anywhere
Disney runs Disney+ which makes way more money
Other studios are trying to make their own (studio)+ and it's taking shape.

How long before Disney pulls the rug from people who think they "own" movies on Movies Anywhere ?

I don't know how long discs will continue to be made but it's my solution to collecting movies.
You really cannot equate MA with Disney+, they are two separate enterprises.
MA came first. Disney got its partners together and said "We're getting the shaft with UV, we own BAMTech now, we can do for you what UV did, and we can do it BETTER!"...despite the criticism, they have. The MA app is available on EVERY device and platform. They've succeeded as the "digital bridge" to your collected entertainment. I've NEVER seen a UV app, anywhere?

North America, yes its market-share is declining due to expansion in Europe and other countries, but its still over 50%, its still dominant! Sell to NA, your a success, that has always been the entertainment blueprint for decades. The Beatles didn't become a global success UNTIL they came to America and appeared on Ed Sullivan!

"Collecting" is always going to be preferred with physical, tangible media. I prefer digital, but even I realize that physical gives a sense of ownership that digital cannot....you can hold it, feel it. But, its a trap. It CAN go away at anytime. Ask any "collector" of VHS, 8-tracks, 78's or 45's?

"Movie ownership" again, is a trap! You don't "own" the movie, you simply have been "licensed" the title to watch as you see fit. If DVD, BD and UHD players ceased to be made tomorrow, and 10 years from now 99.9% of disc players broke or ceased to function, your physical copy is worth......what? A museum piece, maybe?

Think that CAN'T happen? See VHS, 8-tracks, 78's or 45's.....
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Old 08-11-2021, 12:26 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brooks101189 View Post
Yep, Starz is owned by Lionsgate, but the streaming service is more Starz on Demand - much in the same way HBO Go and Max Go are or were.
...and more like HBO Max, Disney+, Paramount+ are today....
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Old 08-11-2021, 12:35 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steedeel View Post
Iím half expecting Paramount to be involved in a merger, itís going to be a tough sell otherwise. Even in the U.K., where we donít have HBO Max and Hulu, things are getting out of hand. Too many services and something has to give.

As for MA, I donít think itís a great proposition at the moment. Itís like the unloved child.
For a while.....there WAS talk of Comcast diversifying Universal studios, retaining NBC....then Universal would merge with Paramount.
But I think that was rampant speculation. Comcast is now diversifying the NBC-branded RSN's, of which Sinclair has placed a bid on.

Comcast needs cash to convert existing systems/offices to either DOCSIS 4.0 or FTTP, depending on the size of the areas needed to be upgraded.
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Old 08-11-2021, 12:48 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjritter79 View Post

"Movie ownership" again, is a trap! You don't "own" the movie, you simply have been "licensed" the title to watch as you see fit. If DVD, BD and UHD players ceased to be made tomorrow, and 10 years from now 99.9% of disc players broke or ceased to function, your physical copy is worth......what? A museum piece, maybe?

Think that CAN'T happen? See VHS, 8-tracks, 78's or 45's.....
Think VHS, 78s and 45s can not be played now ?
I wasn't very into any of those formats as the one thing that ALL had in common is you damage the media with every play.

[Show spoiler]I have my movies backed up
... Not to mention multiple players...

I"m sure my movies will be playable when I'm gone. I still have CDs from the 80s that still play like new 40 years later. In forty years I won't be able to tell a disc from a stream.

I am curious now which of the remaining online movie lockers will fail next. Overnight it could be Movies Nowhere.

Last edited by bhampton; 08-11-2021 at 01:12 PM.
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