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Old 06-30-2012, 04:21 PM   #1001
Goat1 Goat1 is offline
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What did you notice between those receiver's that were different? Velociti usually brings up High end stuff and the majority can justify spending that kind of money or can spend it. That's why so many go for Emotiva. That why he should talk about stuff that applies to most on here. These people including myself can't identify with the high end stuff..
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Old 06-30-2012, 04:31 PM   #1002
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Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
speaker and amp/source selection is probably more important with 2-ch, especially as the speakers are more neutral and revealing of whats upstream. As Velocity said before, Krell and Dyns might not be a good pairing, however Naim, T+A, Boulder, Acoustic Research and Octave are great pairings. However the average person doesnt notice much of a difference between onkyo and pioneer with a movie. Personally I did, which is why i have an Integra... it was Marantz, Integra or NAD for me. No other receiver could sound the way I wanted when playing both music and movies.
Not to wander off topic, but I have owned Harman Kardon, Yamaha, Denon, and now Integra and I do agree I could hear a difference between brands. Although I do like my HT, I have a separate room for 2 channel and that is a whole different animal. Currently I have all Emotiva gear with GE Triton Two's for 2 channel, but will be upgrading in the future to Naim and Acoustic Research. Sorry to wander Goat1 and others. Would it be possible to get a 2 Channel Topic on this forum?? Any interest??
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Old 06-30-2012, 04:33 PM   #1003
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Originally Posted by Goat1 View Post
What did you notice between those receiver's that were different? Velociti usually brings up High end stuff and the majority can justify spending that kind of money or can spend it. That's why so many go for Emotiva. That why he should talk about stuff that applies to most on here. These people including myself can't identify with the high end stuff..
I mean. Almost all of my responses are either in response to generalizations that don't apply in every context, or in response to types of speakers that you keep asking about...A lot of the stuff I talk about aren't necessarily high end, just two channel, and only because that's what I know. Ignorant as all get out on HT just because it's not something I have interest in.
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Old 06-30-2012, 04:33 PM   #1004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat1 View Post
What did you notice between those receiver's that were different? Velociti usually brings up High end stuff and the majority can justify spending that kind of money or can spend it. That's why so many go for Emotiva. That why he should talk about stuff that applies to most on here. These people including myself can't identify with the high end stuff..
with music the NAD was the best, it had nice warmth and very good detail, but it lacked the HT features that the others had. the marantz and onkyo were less warm, actually the newer marantz sound more like Denons, which isnt bad, but i preferred the warmer marantz receivers like the 5002/5003, the 5004 just lacked that SQ marantz was known for, and the pop of death they were plauged with kept me away. The Integra is fairly neutral sounding, but enough warmth to make it nice and musical. To me it sounded natural and a sound that was very close to the Musical Fidelity M3i, so I really liked it.

When I got the Naim Integrated amp, I got what I wanted for music, better detail and seperation, more dynamic drive, better pace and rhythm, the bass improved significantly. I compared the Nait 5i with the Musical Fidelity M3i, Peachtree that was $1k-ish I think the Nova, and they were all good, but they couldnt deliver the slam that the naim could provide.
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Old 06-30-2012, 04:37 PM   #1005
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Originally Posted by Bluvette View Post
Not to wander off topic, but I have owned Harman Kardon, Yamaha, Denon, and now Integra and I do agree I could hear a difference between brands. Although I do like my HT, I have a separate room for 2 channel and that is a whole different animal. Currently I have all Emotiva gear with GE Triton Two's for 2 channel, but will be upgrading in the future to Naim and Acoustic Research. Sorry to wander Goat1 and others. Would it be possible to get a 2 Channel Topic on this forum?? Any interest??
I have asked about a 2-ch forum... and it went no where, it was in the forum feedback section... I petitioned people to join, but it didnt get anywhere.... bring it back up and you will get my support.

Naim and Acoustic Research are great, I have heard a few of both. Cant go wrong.
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Old 06-30-2012, 05:19 PM   #1006
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Originally Posted by Bluvette View Post
Not to wander off topic, but I have owned Harman Kardon, Yamaha, Denon, and now Integra and I do agree I could hear a difference between brands. Although I do like my HT, I have a separate room for 2 channel and that is a whole different animal. Currently I have all Emotiva gear with GE Triton Two's for 2 channel, but will be upgrading in the future to Naim and Acoustic Research. Sorry to wander Goat1 and others. Would it be possible to get a 2 Channel Topic on this forum?? Any interest??
Welcome to the PSB thread Bluvette..lol Especially when none of us own them. But its good to learn.. I have no problem with a 2 channel thread..
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Old 06-30-2012, 05:22 PM   #1007
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Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
with music the NAD was the best, it had nice warmth and very good detail, but it lacked the HT features that the others had. the marantz and onkyo were less warm, actually the newer marantz sound more like Denons, which isnt bad, but i preferred the warmer marantz receivers like the 5002/5003, the 5004 just lacked that SQ marantz was known for, and the pop of death they were plauged with kept me away. The Integra is fairly neutral sounding, but enough warmth to make it nice and musical. To me it sounded natural and a sound that was very close to the Musical Fidelity M3i, so I really liked it.

When I got the Naim Integrated amp, I got what I wanted for music, better detail and seperation, more dynamic drive, better pace and rhythm, the bass improved significantly. I compared the Nait 5i with the Musical Fidelity M3i, Peachtree that was $1k-ish I think the Nova, and they were all good, but they couldnt deliver the slam that the naim could provide.
I hear people talk about slam and I'm assuming its midbass? I never feel it,do you have to crank it up to get it? Its that pound on your chest right?
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Old 06-30-2012, 11:16 PM   #1008
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Kiwi,you should post some pics of your gear.
Here is my room at the moment. When I said I had the Image series in storage... that's not exactly true. I'm still using the Image centre C5 as the Monitor Audio GXC150 centre I had ordered a couple of months ago still hasn't arrived at the dealer's shop yet. And I am using the T5's as stands for the Imagine B's that are running as wide highs. GX50's as fronts and the DM 2/6's as side surrounds.

I know it is such a mix of speakers but they kind of compliment each other quite nicely. The GX50's do nice on vocals so they are my fronts... the Imagine B's stronger mid range help give instruments on stage good presence to the extreme left and right in their wide role... and the DM's do good as surrounds by projecting things like backup vocals and chimes well out into the room. I mostly listen to 2ch music up-mixed into surroundsound with an AVR as a pre feeding into poweramps for each set of speakers.

Last edited by kiwi2; 06-30-2012 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 06-30-2012, 11:26 PM   #1009
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I hear people talk about slam and I'm assuming its midbass? I never feel it,do you have to crank it up to get it? Its that pound on your chest right?
I can feel the vibrations from guitar chords and such pass through my body at even moderately low/medium listening levels now that I am starting to achieve a reasonably flat in-room frequency response. Each time I have made a change that results in a flatter measured frequency response... things like that have improved.
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Old 06-30-2012, 11:39 PM   #1010
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The GX50's look nice. Did you notice a marked improvement from the wall treatments? And how do you measure the room response to know how flat the sound is?
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Old 07-01-2012, 12:08 AM   #1011
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Nice room kiwi2.
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Old 07-01-2012, 12:11 AM   #1012
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Did you notice a marked improvement from the wall treatments?
Yes, wouldn't want to be without them now. Imaging becomes more precise. More definition and space between the individual instruments/vocals, I find.


Quote:
And how do you measure the room response to know how flat the sound is?
These days I use TrueRTA and my AVR's calibration mic plugged into the soundcard of my PC. I did start out with downloaded test tone sine waves and a handheld sound meter though.
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Old 07-01-2012, 12:33 AM   #1013
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Yes, wouldn't want to be without them now. Imaging becomes more precise. More definition and space between the individual instruments/vocals, I find.




These days I use TrueRTA and my AVR's calibration mic plugged into the soundcard of my PC. I did start out with downloaded test tone sine waves and a handheld sound meter though.


I don't understand how you do this..
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Old 07-01-2012, 12:56 AM   #1014
kiwi2 kiwi2 is offline
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[/B]

I don't understand how you do this..
My PC that is also my music server in an adjacent room is connected to my AVR for playback, so I can use a real time analyser program on my PC to generate pink noise on my system. Then a analyser microphone plugs into the PC for quick and easy room response measurements.

Alternatively you can download test tones for the likes of here... http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm and simply listen for certain frequencies that drop or get louder in volume. Or a bit more technical, you could use a C weight handheld sound level meter in order to see what frequencies are getting quieter or louder than others.
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Old 07-01-2012, 02:10 AM   #1015
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Nice.. Ty.. I have an SPL meter.. I'll have to check it out..
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Old 07-01-2012, 02:41 AM   #1016
callas01 callas01 is offline
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Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
Here is my room at the moment. When I said I had the Image series in storage... that's not exactly true. I'm still using the Image centre C5 as the Monitor Audio GXC150 centre I had ordered a couple of months ago still hasn't arrived at the dealer's shop yet. And I am using the T5's as stands for the Imagine B's that are running as wide highs. GX50's as fronts and the DM 2/6's as side surrounds.

I know it is such a mix of speakers but they kind of compliment each other quite nicely. The GX50's do nice on vocals so they are my fronts... the Imagine B's stronger mid range help give instruments on stage good presence to the extreme left and right in their wide role... and the DM's do good as surrounds by projecting things like backup vocals and chimes well out into the room. I mostly listen to 2ch music up-mixed into surroundsound with an AVR as a pre feeding into poweramps for each set of speakers.
Nice room you have there kiwi.
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Old 07-01-2012, 02:43 AM   #1017
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There are a couple of knowledgeable guys in here. My Monitor speakers are 4 ohm. What is the benefit of having 4 ohm speakers?
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Old 07-01-2012, 02:55 AM   #1018
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I hear people talk about slam and I'm assuming its midbass? I never feel it,do you have to crank it up to get it? Its that pound on your chest right?
Mid-bass and sligtly lower having impact and presence. With the MF M3i and Nova, there was bass, but it couldn't deliver the way the naim did. I use a cd called star tracks which has john William's movie scores. One of the songs track #2, march if the imperials, there is a tympani that thru the integra and other units was there, but in the back drop. With the naim, that tympani beat is forceful and brings the dread of the Empire's attack on Hoth. Music brings emotion, and to me the naim brought more emotion then the others.
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Old 07-01-2012, 03:10 AM   #1019
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There are a couple of knowledgeable guys in here. My Monitor speakers are 4 ohm. What is the benefit of having 4 ohm speakers?
Easy Answers to Confusing Specs: Sorting Out "Impedance"

You've seen references to "impedance" and "ohms" in various loudspeaker specifications or in your owner's manual for an AV receiver. But what is it? Do you have to "match" speaker impedance to your AV receiver or amplifier?

Let's first get a couple of things clear: Impedance has nothing —I repeat, nothing—to do with sound quality. It is an electrical measurement of a loudspeaker's resistance; its opposition to the flow of electric current (the audio signals) from your AV receiver or amplifier through your speaker cables to the speaker drivers and the fine wire in the driver voice coils. It's a kind of electrical "friction" to the movement of electrons through the copper wires in your speakers. We measure impedance in "ohms," named after George Ohm, the German physicist.

In a loudspeaker, current does all the work; voltage is the "push" behind the current, kind of similar to the way water pressure (voltage) forces the water (current) through a hose. If you have a narrow hose (a high impedance), not as much water (current) flows. Use a larger diameter hose (lower resistance) and more water (current) flows.

Current has to flow through your loudspeakers, but we certainly don't want them or the speaker cables to heat up and waste all your amplifier power! We want the electric audio signals to drive the speakers to produce great sound.

Loudspeakers have impedances of 8 ohms, 6 ohms or 4 ohms (those are "nominal" or approximate values, because the impedance of a speaker changes all the time with the different frequencies of music). A 4-ohm speaker draws more electric current through your AV receiver's output transistors, and since more current equals greater power, 4-ohm speakers tend to have greater dynamic range and play louder more easily than 8-ohm speakers.

AV receivers also produce more power into 4-ohm speakers than 8-ohm speakers, as much as 50% more. There isn't any way you can lower the impedance of your speakers--that's set by the designer and the voice coil windings and crossover parts, but you can check the impedance of any speaker by looking at the identification plate on the speaker's rear panel, where its impedance will be stated in ohms.

Your AV receiver has essentially zero output impedance (0 ohms) so you do not have to match the impedance of your amplifier to the speakers. The amplifier does not expect to "see" speakers of given impedance and you can connect speakers with different impedances (8 ohms, 6 ohms, 4 ohms) to an AV receiver with no negative effects so long as the impedance of any of your speakers doesn't go below 4 ohms. If speaker impedance is too low, too much current will run through the AV receiver's output transistors, causing the receiver to overheat and shut down. If you get 4-ohm speakers, make sure your AV receiver is able to drive them easily without overheating. Some brands of AV receivers have no problems driving 4-ohm speakers, others cannot.
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Old 07-01-2012, 03:20 AM   #1020
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Welcome back.. Great write up. Now it's starting to make sense. Do you think with 4 ohm speakers you need better speaker cables up front? Some think cables can make a decent difference.
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