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Old 05-26-2023, 09:27 PM   #221
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I watched this a few days ago and thought it looked great.
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Old 05-26-2023, 09:44 PM   #222
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For the love of God, his reviews are ALWAYS finding fault with the color.

It's really killing my enjoyment of this site, because I need to remember to check who the reviewer is and then find a credible review elsewhere before deciding to buy the movie now.
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Old 05-27-2023, 02:39 AM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StingingVelvet View Post
I already got it, yeah. I do think the UK ones seem more colloquial I guess, but I kind of like the added formalities and such of the US one. I dunno, six versus half-dozen for me.

Haven't seen this movie since an ancient DVD rental.
The US subtitles are not just more formal, they're also more prone to mistakes. They also translate lots of things literally, like Knight, that shouldn't be translated that way. Some of the more flowery flourishes are kind of fun, but by translating everything like an AI, they often lose the actual sense of what's being said.
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Old 05-27-2023, 07:45 AM   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systemrok View Post
For the love of God, his reviews are ALWAYS finding fault with the color.

It's really killing my enjoyment of this site, because I need to remember to check who the reviewer is and then find a credible review elsewhere before deciding to buy the movie now.
The best part is he complains that the color isn't exactly like it was 20 years ago (while trying too hard to tell people he DOES remember, because he's aware of how many mistakes he's made), yet says nothing about the re-worked special effects that also aren't exactly like they were 20 years ago (but wouldn’t he know that if he knows the film as well as he claims?)

(And again, he loved all the revisionist color a few years ago. Look at his Bull Durham review where he praises the color that's been egregiously tealed so much that the baseball team uniforms are no longer the correct shade of blue.)

It’s pure comedy.

Last edited by Bates_Motel; 05-27-2023 at 08:23 AM.
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Old 05-27-2023, 08:40 AM   #225
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Is it actually even possible to remember a grading you watched 20 years ago? Maybe for some people, but I kind of find that hard to believe. :-/
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Old 05-27-2023, 09:59 AM   #226
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The dvd screenshots the Dr uses look absolutely horrible colourwise so thankfully the 4K looks nothing like it. I thought the 4k looked fantastic.
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Old 05-28-2023, 07:57 AM   #227
James Luckard James Luckard is offline
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As promised, here's an overview of the bonus features on the Shout and Studio Canal UHD sets. Any bonus feature that is exclusive to one set is in bold.

Shout

Disc 1 - UHD of restored Director's Cut
Audio
English 5.1
English 2.0
French Atmos
French 5.1
French 2.0

Disc 2 - BD of restored Director's Cut
Same audio options as UHD

Disc 3 - Bonus Features
- Deleted Scenes - 5 scenes, presented as one video, with discussion/introductions from Christophe Gans and BTS footage from filming - 40:08
- The Guts of the Beast - 2002 documentary covering all aspects of the film - 1:18:11
- The Making of Brotherhood of the Wolf - 2002 documentary of on-set footage exclusively about filming - 1:17:54
- Legend - 2002 interview with author Michel Louis - 17:23
- Trailers - 2002 US theatrical trailer and 2001 UK trailer presented as one 3:40 video

Studio Canal

Disc 1 - UHD of restored Director's Cut
Audio
French Atmos
English 2.0
German 5.1
- Audio commentary with Christophe Gans (subtitled in English)
- Audio commentary with Vincent Cassel & Samuel Le Bihan (subtitled in English)
- 2022 4K restoration trailer - 1:05


Disc 2 - BD of restored Director's Cut
Same audio options as UHD
- Audio commentary with Christophe Gans (subtitled in English)
- Audio commentary with Vincent Cassel & Samuel Le Bihan (subtitled in English)
- 2022 4K restoration trailer - 1:05


Disc 3 - Bonus Features
- The Guts of the Beast - 2002 documentary covering all aspects of the film - 1:18:10
- The Making of Brotherhood of the Wolf - 2002 documentary of on-set footage exclusively about filming - 1:17:53
- Deleted Scenes - 5 scenes, presented as separate videos, with discussion/introductions from Christophe Gans and BTS footage from filming - I assume the running time is the same, too complicated to time them all and add them up
- Legend - 2002 interview with author Michel Louis - 17:50 (the extra thirty seconds are the opening titles of the featurette, which the Shout disc removes for some strange reason.)
- NEW Interview with Christophe Gans and film critic Jean-Baptiste Thoret - 1:28:54
- 2001 UK trailer - 1:03
- 2001 French trailer (remastered for use for the 2022 re-release) - 2:06

Disc 4 - Bonus Features
- Fake "Theatrical Cut" - as described in my previous post, this is not the real theatrical cut. This is an ancient HD master of the Director's Cut, with the five added scenes poorly yanked out, but without fixing the audio changes at each cut point (music, voiceover). This extra feature is technically unique to the SC set, but it's meaningless.
- 2001 Interview with Christophe Gans and film producer and scholar Jean-Pierre Jackson -17:28
Featurettes
- The Extras - 1:26
- The Studies of Fronsac - 1:47
- Emilie and the Music - 1:24
- Thomas d'Apcher - 2:04
- Jeremie Renier and the Horses - 1:40
- Special Effects - 1:38
- Make-up - 1:22
- Mise-en-scene - 1:24

Last edited by James Luckard; 05-28-2023 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 05-28-2023, 08:00 AM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muyfa666 View Post
Is it actually even possible to remember a grading you watched 20 years ago? Maybe for some people, but I kind of find that hard to believe. :-/
The short answer - nope.
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Old 05-28-2023, 10:14 AM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muyfa666 View Post
Is it actually even possible to remember a grading you watched 20 years ago? Maybe for some people, but I kind of find that hard to believe. :-/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben_C View Post
The short answer - nope.
What is the time limit on being able to remember the look of a favorite movie you've seen more than once in it's theatrical run?
Is five years? Two Years? One year? Six months?

Or is it just impossible to conceive that anyone could recall with any certainty that sky shots in a particular film had a blue cast to them rather than a green one- or even just anything other than green. Or that the film in general was awash in blue and blue violet tones. but not green blue or green yellow?

Just curious if there is any allowance here, or do you think everyone's head empties out immediately upon exiting the theater? And that there are no mental comparisons being made while the film is unspooling, comparing and contrasting it visually to other things the viewer may also be familiar with?
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Old 05-28-2023, 10:22 AM   #230
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When comparing Hi-fi stuff, the general view is that you need to do a side-by-side comparison. Otherwise it becomes very subjective.

I don't know why it would be different with film and pictures.
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Old 05-29-2023, 04:44 AM   #231
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Anyone have an issue with English audio? On both the 5.1 and stereo track after about a third of the way into the movie it starts clicking in different speakers. I switched to stereo and it still does it but itís significantly less distracting.

Havenít tried the French track yet so I donít know if itís there.

Besides that, this disc was fantastic. Beautiful picture, and a great movie. My next watch will be the French Atmos track.
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Old 05-29-2023, 08:27 AM   #232
Muyfa666 Muyfa666 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mose Harper View Post
What is the time limit on being able to remember the look of a favorite movie you've seen more than once in it's theatrical run?
Is five years? Two Years? One year? Six months?

Or is it just impossible to conceive that anyone could recall with any certainty that sky shots in a particular film had a blue cast to them rather than a green one- or even just anything other than green. Or that the film in general was awash in blue and blue violet tones. but not green blue or green yellow?

Just curious if there is any allowance here, or do you think everyone's head empties out immediately upon exiting the theater? And that there are no mental comparisons being made while the film is unspooling, comparing and contrasting it visually to other things the viewer may also be familiar with?
Personally, I have a very good memory with stuff like this and are prone to remember even the smallest of details.

20 year old color grading thou? I would say that I may remember a more subdued palette on this movie by memory, but being on DVD and a phat TV, there is no merit to that memory whatsoever.

And there other things to consider; tinting are often regarded as revisionism, and while it technically is, the director is the only who can really say for sure "this is/was my intended look". Everything else is pretty much guesswork.
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Old 05-29-2023, 09:42 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Luckard View Post
As promised, here's an overview of the bonus features on the Shout and Studio Canal UHD sets. Any bonus feature that is exclusive to one set is in bold.

Shout

Disc 1 - UHD of restored Director's Cut
Audio
English 5.1
English 2.0
French Atmos
French 5.1
French 2.0

Disc 2 - BD of restored Director's Cut
Same audio options as UHD

Disc 3 - Bonus Features
- Deleted Scenes - 5 scenes, presented as one video, with discussion/introductions from Christophe Gans and BTS footage from filming - 40:08
- The Guts of the Beast - 2002 documentary covering all aspects of the film - 1:18:11
- The Making of Brotherhood of the Wolf - 2002 documentary of on-set footage exclusively about filming - 1:17:54
- Legend - 2002 interview with author Michel Louis - 17:23
- Trailers - 2002 US theatrical trailer and 2001 UK trailer presented as one 3:40 video

Studio Canal

Disc 1 - UHD of restored Director's Cut
Audio
French Atmos
English 2.0
German 5.1
- Audio commentary with Christophe Gans (subtitled in English)
- Audio commentary with Vincent Cassel & Samuel Le Bihan (subtitled in English)
- 2022 4K restoration trailer - 1:05


Disc 2 - BD of restored Director's Cut
Same audio options as UHD
- Audio commentary with Christophe Gans (subtitled in English)
- Audio commentary with Vincent Cassel & Samuel Le Bihan (subtitled in English)
- 2022 4K restoration trailer - 1:05


Disc 3 - Bonus Features
- The Guts of the Beast - 2002 documentary covering all aspects of the film - 1:18:10
- The Making of Brotherhood of the Wolf - 2002 documentary of on-set footage exclusively about filming - 1:17:53
- Deleted Scenes - 5 scenes, presented as separate videos, with discussion/introductions from Christophe Gans and BTS footage from filming - I assume the running time is the same, too complicated to time them all and add them up
- Legend - 2002 interview with author Michel Louis - 17:50 (the extra thirty seconds are the opening titles of the featurette, which the Shout disc removes for some strange reason.)
- NEW Interview with Christophe Gans and film critic Jean-Baptiste Thoret - 1:28:54
- 2001 UK trailer - 1:03
- 2001 French trailer (remastered for use for the 2022 re-release) - 2:06

Disc 4 - Bonus Features
- Fake "Theatrical Cut" - as described in my previous post, this is not the real theatrical cut. This is an ancient HD master of the Director's Cut, with the five added scenes poorly yanked out, but without fixing the audio changes at each cut point (music, voiceover). This extra feature is technically unique to the SC set, but it's meaningless.
- 2001 Interview with Christophe Gans and film producer and scholar Jean-Pierre Jackson -17:28
Featurettes
- The Extras - 1:26
- The Studies of Fronsac - 1:47
- Emilie and the Music - 1:24
- Thomas d'Apcher - 2:04
- Jeremie Renier and the Horses - 1:40
- Special Effects - 1:38
- Make-up - 1:22
- Mise-en-scene - 1:24
Thank you, can you tell me for the US if the subtitles are inside the image frame? (both UHD and BD)
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Old 05-29-2023, 09:52 AM   #234
Muyfa666 Muyfa666 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDK View Post
Thank you, can you tell me for the US if the subtitles are inside the image frame? (both UHD and BD)
I think I read somewhere in the thread that they are split between the image frame and the black bar.

I know for sure that my UK SC is like that.
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Old 05-29-2023, 11:20 AM   #235
RocShemp RocShemp is offline
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If Shout! and StudioCanal got their hands on the new 4K master that was made for the Metropolitan release, both should look great.

Although in French, the following review has some nice screenshot comparisons of the 2008 StudioCanal BD, the 2022 Metropolitan BD, and the 2022 Metropolitan 4K UHD BD:

https://digitalcine.fr/4k-bluray-dvd...nheur-a-la-4k/
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Old 05-29-2023, 12:51 PM   #236
DaveyJoe DaveyJoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muyfa666 View Post
Is it actually even possible to remember a grading you watched 20 years ago?
Absolutely not.
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Old 05-29-2023, 04:06 PM   #237
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
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Brotherhood of the Wolf is a fictional 2001 movie that was filmed (shot) in the country of France. The movie had a $29 million dollar budget with box office sells of $70.8 million dollars. In the United States the unrated extended directors cut of Brotherhood of the Wolf was released on the 4K Blu-ray format on 5-23-2023. If this 151-minute unrated version of Brotherhood of the Wolf were to be summited to the MPA for a rating, it most likely would receive a R rating for some nudity with sexual situations and some bloody violence. I do not believe the unrated 151-minute version of the movie contains enough graphic material to get an official NC-17 rating from the MPA. The beast in this movie is a fictional domesticated creature and is not based in reality. This fictional movie is set around the year 1765 in the 18th century. I enjoyed watching the fictional character called Mani who is played by Mark Dacascos.

This is the best version of Brotherhood of the Wolf that has been released so far. 100% of the extra features have been ported over from the prior Shout Factory release. This movie contains one BD-100 disc, one BD-50 disc, and one BD-25 disc. For those families that own 100% 4K Blu-ray players there is no reason to insert the BD-50 disc, since that disc contains only the feature film at 2K resolution quality. The BD-100 4K Blu-ray disc contains a native 4K version of the movie using the HEVC video codec. The Special Features BD-25 disc contains all the movies bonus features. A total of 87.6GB of space is used out of 100GB on the triple layer 4K Blu-ray disc. A total of 46GB of space out of 50GB is used on the dual layer Blu-ray disc. A total of 10.6GB of space is used out of 25GB on the single layer Blu-ray disc. There are several hours of bonus features that use the legacy 480i MPEG-2 codec. At the time of this post the Blu-ray.com database needs updated to show the correct three optical discs in the package and the correct audio codecs used. That update is pending approval.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Broth...lu-ray/329422/

Brotherhood of the Wolf on the USA release for the 4K Blu-ray format contains a lossless French 13.1 Dolby Atmos soundtrack with 7.1 Dolby TrueHD core audio for legacy audio equipment. Also, both a French and English 5.1 DTS-HD Master audio soundtrack and both a French and English 2.0 DTS-HD Master audio soundtrack for those that have two stereo speaker systems instead of surround sound systems. Also, an English subtitle option. For people that speak and understand the French language, they should listen to the lossless French 13.1 Dolby Atmos object-based surround soundtrack for this movie. However, since many American human beings and AI programs have not downloaded language packs to their core operating system or have not learned other languages naturally, then most people will prefer to listen to the lossless English 5.1 DTS-HD Master audio soundtrack since Shout Factory did not create a lossless English 13.1 Dolby Atmos soundtrack. If one only learned the English language during their life, then listing to the lossless French 13.1 Dolby Atmos soundtrack with English subtitles turned on is an option, however reading subtitles in English is distracting and one sometimes misses important onscreen action if they read subtitles. Therefore, for this USA release Shout Factory has the default soundtrack being a lossless English 5.1 DTS-HD Master audio soundtrack with subtitles defaulting to off which is a wise decision.

Overall, the lossless English 5.1 DTS-HD Master audio soundtrack sounded very good. Also, the high bit rate HEVC video codec for this movie looked excellent. However, because of limitations with my display the native 4K Blu-ray with Dolby Vision HDR was downscaled to 2K with standard dynamic range. So far, this 5-23-2023 release of Brotherhood of the Wolf on the 4K Blu-ray format is the best version of the movie released so far beating all other versions in terms of picture and sound quality and matching prior USA versions when it comes to legacy 480i Standard definition special features. However, the United Kingdom 4K Blu-ray release with a region B locked Blu-ray disc does have some exclusive bonus features like two audio commentaries in French with English subtitles. But for people that own all region A locked Blu-ray players, the USA version from Shout Factory is the one to own unless one wants to go through the difficulty of hacking all their 4K Blu-ray players so they are region selectable for all regions when playing back standard Blu-ray discs. The 4K Blu-ray disc is region free but sometimes certain movies imported place exclusive extras on the region B Blu-ray disc that cannot be played on a region A locked Blu-ray player. Therefore, I went with the official USA release from Shout Factory.
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Old 05-29-2023, 05:02 PM   #238
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I was surprised to learn that modern AI systems can't cope with subtitles very well
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Old 05-29-2023, 06:13 PM   #239
Muyfa666 Muyfa666 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
Brotherhood of the Wolf is a fictional 2001 movie that was filmed (shot) in the country of France. The movie had a $29 million dollar budget with box office sells of $70.8 million dollars. In the United States the unrated extended directors cut of Brotherhood of the Wolf was released on the 4K Blu-ray format on 5-23-2023. If this 151-minute unrated version of Brotherhood of the Wolf were to be summited to the MPA for a rating, it most likely would receive a R rating for some nudity with sexual situations and some bloody violence. I do not believe the unrated 151-minute version of the movie contains enough graphic material to get an official NC-17 rating from the MPA. The beast in this movie is a fictional domesticated creature and is not based in reality. This fictional movie is set around the year 1765 in the 18th century. I enjoyed watching the fictional character called Mani who is played by Mark Dacascos.

This is the best version of Brotherhood of the Wolf that has been released so far. 100% of the extra features have been ported over from the prior Shout Factory release. This movie contains one BD-100 disc, one BD-50 disc, and one BD-25 disc. For those families that own 100% 4K Blu-ray players there is no reason to insert the BD-50 disc, since that disc contains only the feature film at 2K resolution quality. The BD-100 4K Blu-ray disc contains a native 4K version of the movie using the HEVC video codec. The Special Features BD-25 disc contains all the movies bonus features. A total of 87.6GB of space is used out of 100GB on the triple layer 4K Blu-ray disc. A total of 46GB of space out of 50GB is used on the dual layer Blu-ray disc. A total of 10.6GB of space is used out of 25GB on the single layer Blu-ray disc. There are several hours of bonus features that use the legacy 480i MPEG-2 codec. At the time of this post the Blu-ray.com database needs updated to show the correct three optical discs in the package and the correct audio codecs used. That update is pending approval.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Broth...lu-ray/329422/

Brotherhood of the Wolf on the USA release for the 4K Blu-ray format contains a lossless French 13.1 Dolby Atmos soundtrack with 7.1 Dolby TrueHD core audio for legacy audio equipment. Also, both a French and English 5.1 DTS-HD Master audio soundtrack and both a French and English 2.0 DTS-HD Master audio soundtrack for those that have two stereo speaker systems instead of surround sound systems. Also, an English subtitle option. For people that speak and understand the French language, they should listen to the lossless French 13.1 Dolby Atmos object-based surround soundtrack for this movie. However, since many American human beings and AI programs have not downloaded language packs to their core operating system or have not learned other languages naturally, then most people will prefer to listen to the lossless English 5.1 DTS-HD Master audio soundtrack since Shout Factory did not create a lossless English 13.1 Dolby Atmos soundtrack. If one only learned the English language during their life, then listing to the lossless French 13.1 Dolby Atmos soundtrack with English subtitles turned on is an option, however reading subtitles in English is distracting and one sometimes misses important onscreen action if they read subtitles. Therefore, for this USA release Shout Factory has the default soundtrack being a lossless English 5.1 DTS-HD Master audio soundtrack with subtitles defaulting to off which is a wise decision.

Overall, the lossless English 5.1 DTS-HD Master audio soundtrack sounded very good. Also, the high bit rate HEVC video codec for this movie looked excellent. However, because of limitations with my display the native 4K Blu-ray with Dolby Vision HDR was downscaled to 2K with standard dynamic range. So far, this 5-23-2023 release of Brotherhood of the Wolf on the 4K Blu-ray format is the best version of the movie released so far beating all other versions in terms of picture and sound quality and matching prior USA versions when it comes to legacy 480i Standard definition special features. However, the United Kingdom 4K Blu-ray release with a region B locked Blu-ray disc does have some exclusive bonus features like two audio commentaries in French with English subtitles. But for people that own all region A locked Blu-ray players, the USA version from Shout Factory is the one to own unless one wants to go through the difficulty of hacking all their 4K Blu-ray players so they are region selectable for all regions when playing back standard Blu-ray discs. The 4K Blu-ray disc is region free but sometimes certain movies imported place exclusive extras on the region B Blu-ray disc that cannot be played on a region A locked Blu-ray player. Therefore, I went with the official USA release from Shout Factory.
I respectfully disagree on which audio track to choose. The movie was recorded in french and should be viewed like that.

To my knowledge, only the UK and Ireland have english as their official first language, so I'd say that most europeans are used to subtitles as the default option.

Then again, of course everyone should choose the english or german dub if that's their preference - each to their own.
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Old 05-30-2023, 03:17 AM   #240
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
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The USA 4K Blu-ray release does not have the German dub, just the original native French in high quality lossless 13.1 Dolby Atmos and the English soundtrack. The USA Shout Factory release defaults to lossless English 5.1 DTS-HD Master audio with subtitles off. If I spoke French, I would prefer the original lossless French 13.1 Dolby Atmos soundtrack.

On my year 2016 OPPO UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player the triple layer BD-100 disc played back fine.
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