A Guide to Bipolar, Dipolar, & Direct-Radiating Monopole Surround Speakers (PART I)

[echoesian]

Currently, I'm looking to buy a 5.1 home theater set and I have shortlisted the PSB Image Series because of the budget and also best bang of buck reason. But here is the dilemma, I prefer to have ceiling speakers as the surround but I do not want to sacrifice for the performance. The main reason for ceiling speaker is that I do not want to have wires laying on the floor and also does not want to have speaker stand since there are kids around and my wife does not like as well. Anyone can give some ideas of some good ceiling speakers, how about the PSB CW60R ???

Or should I use the PSB B4 or B5 and mount on the rear top corners of the walls? I also heard that if mount on the rear top corner, it will be more flexible as the viewing location can be moved closer or far to/from the TV. And I also thought that I could use the B4/B5 for stereo in case I need to change/upgrade in the future?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by echoesian

Currently, I'm looking to buy a 5.1 home theater set and I have shortlisted the PSB Image Series because of the budget and also best bang of buck reason. But here is the dilemma, I prefer to have ceiling speakers as the surround but I do not want to sacrifice for the performance. The main reason for ceiling speaker is that I do not want to have wires laying on the floor and also does not want to have speaker stand since there are kids around and my wife does not like as well. Anyone can give some ideas of some good ceiling speakers, how about the PSB CW60R ???

Or should I use the PSB B4 or B5 and mount on the rear top corners of the walls? I also heard that if mount on the rear top corner, it will be more flexible as the viewing location can be moved closer or far to/from the TV. And I also thought that I could use the B4/B5 for stereo in case I need to change/upgrade in the future?

I have 2 PSB Image S50 bipolar speakers. They are not in-wall speakers. I attached them to the ceiling with the help of two long angled brackets that I bought from home depot. The speakers have a screw hole in the back for mounting.

At one time, in-wall and in-ceiling speakers were rare. Nowadays, almost all speaker companies are beginning to offer them. Check the offerings from Definitive Technology, Polk, Infinity, JBL, Niles, Boston Acoustics, Klipsch, etc.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-t9AoIsv...html?showAll=Y

http://www.proacousticsusa.com/category.php?cId=44

http://www.inwallstore.com/Ceiling_S...400&OVNDID=ND1

[echoesian]

You mean in-ceilings speakers are right for surround use? I do not want to compromise the performance quality by using in-ceilings speakers instead of normal direct or bipole speakers.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by echoesian

You mean in-ceilings speakers are right for surround use? I do not want to compromise the performance quality by using in-ceilings speakers instead of normal direct or bipole speakers.

I do not recommend in-wall speakers for the front and center speakers. Although in-wall and in-ceiling speakers may not be as good as external bipole/dipole surround speakers, they are definitely acceptable. If your main interest is multi-channel movies and not multi-channel music such as SACD and DVD-A, in ceiling surround speakers can do a reasonable job. Most surround information for movies are special effects such as echoes, gun shots, car chases, explosions, crickets, etc. High quality surround speakers are not really needed.

If you are that concerned with the quality of surround speakers, buy two quality bipole surround speakers and attach them to the ceiling or walls like I did. I am sure you can improvise. If there is a will, there will be a way.

[Sousa86]

hey BD, got any recomendation for surround placement/speaker type for my current room a few posts back

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Sousa86

hey BD, got any recomendation for surround placement/speaker type for my current room a few posts back

Your best bet is to buy 2 bipole speakers and attach them to the ceiling slightly behind and to the side of the sofa or attach them to the rear wall. You should be able to run wires through the walls and attach the speakers to the rear wall and make them look professional. Alternatively, you can higher an electrician to run wires through the walls for you.

Axiom sells excellent suroound speakers. They also sell mounting brackets to attach them to the side/rear walls or to the ceiling.


http://www.axiomaudio.com/qs4.html
http://www.axiomaudio.com/qs8.html
http://www.axiomaudio.com/fullmetalceilingbracket.html
http://www.axiomaudio.com/fullmetalbracket.html

[Sousa86]

since i currently rent, i really cant run any lines in the walls.
but i will get raceways or in wall speaker wire since its white and run along walls at the top where it meets the ceiling, there is a sort of niche where they meet and rounds over to meet the ceiling, so the wire will actually be quite hidden (this is a very oddly built house lol)

as far as the "s" i have in the corner, i dont know what i was thinking lol
the spots between the door and sectional and the corresponding wall are my best placemnet options that i could come up with.

i'm actually considering axiom since they have a good reputation, and i'll def check out the mounts they offer to make this work lol

as always, thanks for the help!

[echoesian]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

I do not recommend in-wall speakers for the front and center speakers. Although in-wall and in-ceiling speakers may not be as good as external bipole/dipole surround speakers, they are definitely acceptable. If your main interest is multi-channel movies and not multi-channel music such as SACD and DVD-A, in ceiling surround speakers can do a reasonable job. Most surround information for movies are special effects such as echoes, gun shots, car chases, explosions, crickets, etc. High quality surround speakers are not really needed.

If you are that concerned with the quality of surround speakers, buy two quality bipole surround speakers and attach them to the ceiling or walls like I did. I am sure you can improvise. If there is a will, there will be a way.

Hi Bid daddy, thanks for your recommendation, can I mount the S50 or S5 on the rear wall instead for a 5.1 setup? But the angle from the sofa is more than 110 degree already because Dolby and DTS is recommending 90-110 from the side eat and slightly back. What do you think if I just mount the bipole speakers like S50 or S5 on the rear wall as depicted on the picture? Will the sound output be optimal ?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by echoesian

Hi Bid daddy, thanks for your recommendation, can I mount the S50 or S5 on the rear wall instead for a 5.1 setup? But the angle from the sofa is more than 110 degree already because Dolby and DTS is recommending 90-110 from the side eat and slightly back. What do you think if I just mount the bipole speakers like S50 or S5 on the rear wall as depicted on the picture? Will the sound output be optimal ?

Yes, you can install the S50/S5 surround speakers on the rear wall. They are bipolar speakers and bipolar surround speakers are very flexible as far as placement is concerned. Don't worry too much about the angles. Those numbers are guidelines and are not etched in stone. You can definitely get good results.

[echoesian]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Yes, you can install the S50/S5 surround speakers on the rear wall. They are bipolar speakers and bipolar surround speakers are very flexible as far as placement is concerned. Don't worry too much about the angles. Those numbers are guidelines and are not etched in stone. You can definitely get good results.

What is your recommendation for placement, mount them exactly as on the attached picture or move them away from the corners a little bit? Because I've heard some peoples are saying if mount the speakers near the corner will exaggerate the bass frequencies?

And how about the recommended height? If I were to mount them on the top corner which is about 6-7' feet from the ear level, would it be ok or too high?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by echoesian

What is your recommendation for placement, mount them exactly as on the attached picture or move them away from the corners a little bit? Because I've heard some peoples are saying if mount the speakers near the corner will exaggerate the bass frequencies?

And how about the recommended height? If I were to mount them on the top corner which is about 6-7' feet from the ear level, would it be ok or too high?

All speakers should be at least one foot to 2 feet away from the walls, particularly if a driver disperses sound directly toward the wall.

As far as height is concerned, surround speakers should be above the ears. Install them at least a couple of feet above your ears when you are sitting down. Make sure they are a foot or so away from the ceiling.

[echoesian]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

All speakers should be at least one foot to 2 feet away from the walls, particularly if a driver disperses sound directly toward the wall.

As far as height is concerned, surround speakers should be above the ears. Install them at least a couple of feet above your ears when you are sitting down. Make sure they are a foot or so away from the ceiling.

Is that also recommended to angle the speakers down a bit to the seating location or just have it facing straight

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by echoesian

Is that also recommended to angle the speakers down a bit to the seating location or just have it facing straight

With bipole/dipole speakers, you do not need to angle them down.

[echoesian]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Your best bet is to buy 2 bipole speakers and attach them to the ceiling slightly behind and to the side of the sofa or attach them to the rear wall. You should be able to run wires through the walls and attach the speakers to the rear wall and make them look professional. Alternatively, you can higher an electrician to run wires through the walls for you.

Axiom sells excellent suroound speakers. They also sell mounting brackets to attach them to the side/rear walls or to the ceiling.


http://www.axiomaudio.com/qs4.html
http://www.axiomaudio.com/qs8.html
http://www.axiomaudio.com/fullmetalceilingbracket.html
http://www.axiomaudio.com/fullmetalbracket.html

Since the speakers gonna drill some holes on it in order to attach to the brackets, would it affect the sound quality?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by echoesian

Since the speakers gonna drill some holes on it in order to attach to the brackets, would it affect the sound quality?

Most bipole/dipole surround speakers already have screw holes for mounting. A small screw hole that will be convered with a screw will not affect the sound quality. Over the years, I have drilled holes through speaker/subwoofer cabinets that I have bought or built on several occasions. As long as they are convered with a screw or binding posts, you should be ok.

[echoesian]

BD, you mentioned bipole is good for movies, how about multi channel music? Would a direct radiating speaker is a better option for movie as well as music?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by echoesian

BD, you mentioned bipole is good for movies, how about multi channel music? Would a direct radiating speaker is a better option for movie as well as music?

If all you listen to is multi-channel music such as SACD or DVD-A, direct surround speakers may be appropriate for you. However, this does not mean that bipolar speakers will not work. I have bipolar surround speakers and listen to multi-channel music very often. The sound quality is excellent. Read post #1 of this thread. I have summarized the differences between the three types of surround speakers at the bottom of the post.

[echoesian]

Looking at my living hall design, since it is not an enclosed room, would the bipole not taking the full advantage of reflection on the surrounding walls?

I'm still undecided between direct radiating, bipole or in-ceiling for my surround ... because each of them have their own pros and cons

1) Direct - a lot cheaper but need to buy extra bracket
2) Bipole - very good for movies, easy to mount on the wall with just a screw but it's expensive
3) In-ceiling - very neat design because it'll blend nicely with the white plaster ceiling, but sound quality might be not as good.

Very confused now...

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by echoesian

Looking at my living hall design, since it is not an enclosed room, would the bipole not taking the full advantage of reflection on the surrounding walls?

I'm still undecided between direct radiating, bipole or in-ceiling for my surround ... because each of them have their own pros and cons

1) Direct - a lot cheaper but need to buy extra bracket
2) Bipole - very good for movies, easy to mount on the wall with just a screw but it's expensive
3) In-ceiling - very neat design because it'll blend nicely with the white plaster ceiling, but sound quality might be not as good.

Very confused now...

Bipoles can be excellent for movies and music. I have been using bipole front and surround speakers for the past 15 years. I have never looked back. If you can't find bipole surround speakers within your budget, direct monopole speakers can also work. My vote is for #2 and #1.

The Premier Acoustics bipolar surround speakers are the cheapest bipolar speakers that you can find.

Premier Acoustics PA-6S, $229 a Pair:
http://www.sounddistributors.com/buy...at_name=Search
http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/c...pid=1209&sc=29
http://www.factorydirect-hometheater...at_name=Search

Premier Acoustics PA-8S, $299 a Pair:
http://www.factorydirect-hometheater...at_name=Search
http://www.sounddistributors.com/buy...at_name=Search

[echoesian]

Hi BD, my living hall is not fully enclosed, there are open spaces everywhere, will the bipole work well in this environment ? As I know bipole needs to reflect its sound to the side walls