Happiness (1998)

[Monkey Ballz]

What happened to the thread for Todd Solondz's Happiness (1998)?

On the main forum page it says "moved" but clicking on the subject title I get this:

Monkey Ballz, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

As a new member you do not yet have the privilege to create new threads, but you are welcome to participate in other discussions.

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?

If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

[Leslie Dame]

It means the thread was deleted. Most likely because it was a bootleg release.

[jee]

Alright, now that I am unbanned I am going to add a little context.

Since the 2007 format War I have been a contributing member of this community. Perhaps not as involved here on the discussion forums as many, but I have been here since the beginning.

I am not a paid contributor. I do not receive any benefit from advertising revenue on blu-ray.com, with that in mind. To hold your community members to a level or journalistic integrity with punishments such as banning, and disparaging a persons reputation without compensation is outright ridiculous.

As for the exact circumstances in this case. I purchased a couple films from a company who are apparently a bootleg outfit. Despite the fact that my cable company offers VOD rentals from them. Legit in one regard and black marketeer in another? Or perhaps they are just so damn savvy that they have large businesses fooled. After receiving the titles, I decided to post about my experience with them and the transfer etc.(that's what this thread used to be)

Case in point, I was banned for not being aware that the aforementioned publisher was not legit.

Does this seem right to you?

PS: As this is the 'feedback' forum, I do hope I am not subjected to retaliation or censorship because the feedback I am giving here is not positive. Lets see what happens.

[Monkey Ballz]

Originally Posted by jee

Case in point, I was banned for not being aware that the aforementioned publisher was not legit.

Does this seem right to you?

Absolutely not! The moderation on this board is entirely subjective, highly temperamental and tends towards favoritism (certain unnamed company "representatives" who act atrociously are given free reign, for example.) And in my years of reading this forum, I don't think I've EVER seen a mod publicly provide a reason for banning someone, just as a courtesy to readers of a thread. It's ridiculous.

As for the subject at hand: I'd love to know how it has been *proven* that the company is making bootlegs? I have the disc, and yes, it's burned, the quality is shit -- but is there any clerical evidence? paper trail? recorded complaints from rights holders? Furthermore, I'm pretty sure there are loads of Spanish bootlegs listed in this site's database; what about them?

[Wernski]

Originally Posted by Monkey Ballz

I'd love to know how it has been *proven* that the company is making bootlegs? I have the disc, and yes, it's burned, the quality is shit -- but is there any clerical evidence? paper trail? recorded complaints from rights holders?

Are you kidding? Look at this nonsense:

"Friday The 13th Part 3 in 3D A Fan Creation - Previously only available online, this Blu-ray was created from that source file, and is presented to be studied and enjoyed by 3D enthusiasts and fans alike." Real savy. The top bar of their page directs you to their EBay store where they sell crochet Coraline dolls and - briefly - Ken Park BDRs, until EBay blocked them, as seen on their own facebook page). Your cable company offers VOD rentals from them because they self-produce porn like this: https://kunaki.com/accounting/Showpr...PID=PX00ZZL5QE (no nudity or anything visible at that link). "Maddy" is "Former AVN Nominated Porn Star turned Submissive Wife" (a quote from her verified PornHub bio) Marie Madison and "G" is her husband/ director. How much more *proof* do you need that these aren't official licensors of the North American home video rights for October Films' Happiness?

I'm not cheerleading for anybody's suspension, but let's not be disingenuous. The OP of that thread didn't just offer up a discussion about a release that happened to be unofficial, they announced it as an officially "licensed" release (why? The bootleggers themselves don't even try to make that claim. That's the biggest mystery here for me) in the title, and wrote a post telling people to buy it. As a big Happiness fan, it initially got my hopes up, too. I followed their link - but thankfully the sham is clear. Everything I just posted here I learned from a couple minutes looking at the site the OP linked us to.

Unfortunately though, from the comments I read when the thread was still active, some members were taken in by it and placed orders. I don't see anything wrong with sharing info about a bootleg, but why would you make a post pitching it as a licensed release and directing people to purchase it?

[jkoffman]

Totally agree with everything laid out by Wernski here. I was interested in the post because I wanted the film too, but once seeing it was a BD-R and spending 30 seconds on their website I knew it was a poor bootleg. Outside of the politics and rules about posting bootlegs here, the post's claims were very misleading as well. Kind of a shocker that a user that's been here since 2007 couldn't see the error in any of these ways. As far as being banned, did a mod reach out to you when you were banned? Did they tell you it would be a temporary suspension? I'm always curious how that works here. At any rate, I'm glad for you it was temporary and resolved.

[Monkey Ballz]

Originally Posted by Wernski

Are you kidding? Look at this nonsense:

"Friday The 13th Part 3 in 3D A Fan Creation - Previously only available online, this Blu-ray was created from that source file, and is presented to be studied and enjoyed by 3D enthusiasts and fans alike." Real savy. The top bar of their page directs you to their EBay store where they sell crochet Coraline dolls and - briefly - Ken Park BDRs, until EBay blocked them, as seen on their own facebook page). Your cable company offers VOD rentals from them because they self-produce porn like this: https://kunaki.com/accounting/Showpr...PID=PX00ZZL5QE (no nudity or anything visible at that link). "Maddy" is "Former AVN Nominated Porn Star turned Submissive Wife" (a quote from her verified PornHub bio) Marie Madison and "G" is her husband/ director. How much more *proof* do you need that these aren't official licensors of the North American home video rights for October Films' Happiness?

I'm not cheerleading for anybody's suspension, but let's not be disingenuous. The OP of that thread didn't just offer up a discussion about a release that happened to be unofficial, they announced it as an officially "licensed" release (why? The bootleggers themselves don't even try to make that claim. That's the biggest mystery here for me) in the title, and wrote a post telling people to buy it. As a big Happiness fan, it initially got my hopes up, too. I followed their link - but thankfully the sham is clear. Everything I just posted here I learned from a couple minutes looking at the site the OP linked us to.

Unfortunately though, from the comments I read when the thread was still active, some members were taken in by it and placed orders. I don't see anything wrong with sharing info about a bootleg, but why would you make a post pitching it as a licensed release and directing people to purchase it?

Jesus, dude, my point was - and remains - that this site lists and promotes gray-label stuff from Europe, when it suits their needs, and immediately removes other stuff, that's all. Of COURSE the Happiness disc was a bootleg.

[jkoffman]

Originally Posted by Monkey Ballz

Jesus, dude, my point was - and remains - that this site lists and promotes gray-label stuff from Europe, when it suits their needs, and immediately removes other stuff, that's all. Of COURSE the Happiness disc was a bootleg.

I think the difference there is that the site owners and operators can decide what content they want to "promote" themselves, or at least share on the site, whereas us lowly users are bound by the site mods' decisions and rules in the forum. I'm sure some user posts pass under the radar simply because they haven't been reported or seen by mods. Any BD-R tends to be a red flag right off the bat, especially when it's an otherwise unavailable film that's only for sale at a questionable online "shop". Some European releases at least appear legit and could be harder to confirm in a few clicks.

[Wernski]

Originally Posted by Monkey Ballz

Jesus, dude, my point was - and remains - that this site lists and promotes gray-label stuff from Europe, when it suits their needs, and immediately removes other stuff, that's all. Of COURSE the Happiness disc was a bootleg.

Well gee, excuse me for thinking you “would love to know how it has been *proven* that the company has been making bootlegs,” just because that’s explicitly what you wrote.

Anyway, I thought I was addressing your remaining point… I would suspect if you pointed out any other posts on this forum guilty of the same infraction - that is: falsely announcing an identifiable bootleg as officially licensed and directing members to go buy it - the same thing would happen to them. Maybe I’m wrong? I’m certainly not a mod here. I guess you’d have to direct us to an actual example of what exactly you’re citing and report it to find out for sure.

But I think there’s a critical difference between a post like the Happiness one, particularly ethically, and listing or discussing other grey-market discs as such. In other words, I think the distinction is the false claim of Happiness being licensed and used as a selling point. Do the other cases you’re thinking of do that?

I’m also curious how those cases suit the mods’ needs?

[Monkey Ballz]

Originally Posted by Wernski

I would suspect if you pointed out any other posts on this forum guilty of the same infraction - that is: falsely announcing an identifiable bootleg as officially licensed and directing members to go buy it - the same thing would happen to them. Maybe I’m wrong? I’m certainly not a mod here. I guess you’d have to direct us to an actual example of what exactly you’re citing and report it to find out for sure.

I'm not a NAZI so I've never had any interest in keeping track of other peoples' business, and certainly not reporting them to "the authorities." People can post what they want. The more the merrier.

EDIT: Also, I'm pretty sure the original post by Jee in no way "falsely announcing an identifiable bootleg as officially licensed," in fact, I seem to recall he deliberately qualified it as a possible bootleg? At any rate, the thread is gone (isn't it nice when you can wipe history?) so it's moot at this point.

[jkoffman]

Originally Posted by Monkey Ballz

Also, I'm pretty sure the original post by Jee in no way "falsely announcing an identifiable bootleg as officially licensed

Maybe Jee will chime in -- I asked them some still unanswered questions above -- but the Title of the OP included some language like "officially licensed", which looked like the most glaring offense to me, as far as the forum rules.

[Wernski]

Originally Posted by Monkey Ballz

I'm not a NAZI so I've never had any interest in keeping track of other peoples' business, and certainly not reporting them to "the authorities." People can post what they want. The more the merrier.

EDIT: Also, I'm pretty sure the original post by Jee in no way "falsely announcing an identifiable bootleg as officially licensed," in fact, I seem to recall he deliberately qualified it as a possible bootleg?

Reminder: we’re talking about the thread titled “Happiness (1998) MaddyGTV Licensed BD-R (Likely the best we will ever get).” You can still google it.

But hey, we found some common ground: I am also not a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, nor do I endorse or condone Nazism in any way. Glad we’ve established that.

[jkoffman]

Originally Posted by Wernski

Reminder: we’re talking about the thread titled “Happiness (1998) MaddyGTV Licensed BD-R (Likely the best we will ever get).” You can still google it.

But hey, we found some common ground: I am also not a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, nor do I endorse or condone Nazism in any way. Glad we’ve established that.

From Google I could view a cached version of the page. Yeah, "Licensed BD-R" is right there.

[jkoffman]

Originally Posted by jee

Alright, now that I am unbanned I am going to add a little context.

To hold your community members to a level or journalistic integrity with punishments such as banning, and disparaging a persons reputation without compensation is outright ridiculous.

How did admins/mods disparage your reputation? As far as being banned, did a mod reach out to you when you were banned? Did they tell you it would be a temporary suspension? I'm always curious how that works here.

[jee]

Wow, this really blew up. Yes I did claim it was licensed I won't deny that as I was told as much by maddygtv after I got the first film from them (ken park) and the quality left alot to be desired.

I believed them and I had no reason to doubt, they used to offer a streaming service which you could access through the old MOCA system from legitimate cable provider. For these reasons I just took it as legit as I saw no reason to doubt it.

[jkoffman]

Originally Posted by jee

Wow, this really blew up. Yes I did claim it was licensed I won't deny that as I was told as much by maddygtv after I got the first film from them (ken park) and the quality left alot to be desired.

I believed them and I had no reason to doubt, they used to offer a streaming service which you could access through the old MOCA system from legitimate cable provider. For these reasons I just took it as legit as I saw no reason to doubt it.

Appreciate the response, but would you mind answering my questions too? It gets very Wizard Of Oz around here, and you've had a moment behind the curtain.

[jee]

Originally Posted by jkoffman

Appreciate the response, but would you mind answering my questions too? It gets very Wizard Of Oz around here, and you've had a moment behind the curtain.

A mod did not reach out to me regarding the ban. I discovered it only when attempting to log in.

Regarding BD-Rs, there are some legit BD-R releases out there, I myself own a few from Film Rise, MRG/Noel Films (the filmography of Ivan Noel). There are several others as well.

When I first purchased the film 'Let Me Make You a Martyr" which was published on Blu ray by Film Rise I thought I had gotten scammed because the disc was not a pressed release. After contacting Film Rise through email and a support ticket I discovered that there are legit BD-R releases out there. So a title bring released on a BD-R is no longer a red flag for me.

Furthermore, as I mentioned previously, MaddyGTV used to offer a free streaming service (advertising supported). For a time you were able to rent titles (free with advertising intrusion) through cable box that were clearly published for rental by MaddyGTV. While that alone does not mean the Blu rays they release are not bootlegs, it does give them credibility on the surface.

My error in all this fiasco was that I did not do enough research into this distributor before posting about these films, and if that is necessary for every post, inquiry, recommendation, etc. Well I just don't have time for that.

I will continue to use the collection & catalogue tools here on blu-ray.com, though my participation on the discussion forums will cease. I was never an overly gregarious poster to begin with. Though I'll still chime in if I see a question from a user that I can offer an answer to.

Thanks for the feedback

[jkoffman]

Originally Posted by jee

A mod did not reach out to me regarding the ban. I discovered it only when attempting to log in.

If a mod never contacted you, what alerted you to the reason for the ban?
And when you were later unbanned, there was also no further info? It just magically happened one day when you returned to visit the site?

Originally Posted by jee

Regarding BD-Rs, there are some legit BD-R releases out there, I myself own a few from Film Rise, MRG/Noel Films (the filmography of Ivan Noel). There are several others as well.

For sure. I own about 10 BD-Rs, all from reputable companies. And many DVD-Rs as well.

We all know some bootlegs exist out there. I think the only serious error you made was claiming this one was "Licensed", thereby implying its legitimacy. I would assume the site admins want to avoid bootlegs so as not to tarnish their relationships with actual movie companies and distributors. And in this case, it's also bad for us members because you presented it as something it is not, and in effect promoting it to other unknowing members who might purchase it.

Since you didn't answer my question, I'll just tell you that in my opinion, I don't think your reputation is tarnished at all. You made a mistake, and you were only temporarily suspended.

[jee]

Originally Posted by jkoffman

Totally agree with everything laid out by Wernski here. I was interested in the post because I wanted the film too, but once seeing it was a BD-R and spending 30 seconds on their website I knew it was a poor bootleg. Outside of the politics and rules about posting bootlegs here, the post's claims were very misleading as well. Kind of a shocker that a user that's been here since 2007 couldn't see the error in any of these ways. As far as being banned, did a mod reach out to you when you were banned? Did they tell you it would be a temporary suspension? I'm always curious how that works here. At any rate, I'm glad for you it was temporary and resolved.

I thought this was your question.

Immediately after not being able to log in, I created another account (wasjee) to find out what was going on, which I found this thread with. Though as you can see there is no replies here from that account as everything I posted with it was deleted.

The only reason I knew my account was unbanned eventually is because as I said before, I was and still am using the cataloging tools on the main site and I would occasionally check the forum link to see if my account was still banned.

I get the impression that you are hoping for me to provide you with a "gotcha" statement that you can use to reinforce your position. I have spoken my truth now about the incident and you are free to agree or disagree with me all you like. But I myself and putting this to bed.

Thank you all for responding

[jkoffman]

Originally Posted by jee

I thought this was your question.

Immediately after not being able to log in, I created another account (wasjee) to find out what was going on, which I found this thread with. Though as you can see there is no replies here from that account as everything I posted with it was deleted.

The only reason I knew my account was unbanned eventually is because as I said before, I was and still am using the cataloging tools on the main site and I would occasionally check the forum link to see if my account was still banned.

I get the impression that you are hoping for me to provide you with a "gotcha" statement that you can use to reinforce your position. I have spoken my truth now about the incident and you are free to agree or disagree with me all you like. But I myself and putting this to bed.

Thank you all for responding

I'm honestly not looking for a gotcha statement at all, and I thought that everything else I said here in your favor would assure you of that. I really just wanted to know how banning happens and how mods interacted with you. And apparently they didn't at all, which is a common theme here. Thanks for answering my annoying questions. Sorry you had to find all this out the hard way.