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Old 10-02-2012, 06:24 PM   #41
divyansh divyansh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anibap View Post

It is extremely important to demo and listen to these systems and then take a decision. No matter what we say here, your ears will be the best judge on what you should buy.
The problem of staying in INDIA is that the major home theater brands (Paradigm,B&W,Tannoy etc) Are'nt easily available so demo-ing them is not possible plus the distributors here are just after money and their is a huge difference in their international prices and prices in INDIA.

so i guess have to go by my instinct while buying these things rather than after actually listening to them

and if anyone knows a place where i can demo these brands near DELHI NCR please let me know
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:47 PM   #42
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^BS, Sanjay is based in Delhi I think and I am from Mumbai so please drop this "Boo-hoo I live in INDIA jahan pe kuch nahin milta" attitude. These brands may not be available at your e-zone kind of store but I'm sure you'll have high-end audio shops in Delhi that will be stocking them with demo pieces. It's ridiculous that you should have to buy lakhs worth of equipment based on someone's word.

See if this thread at the hifivision.org forums helps you:
http://www.hifivision.com/authorised...ler-delhi.html
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:18 PM   #43
srinivas1015 srinivas1015 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divyansh View Post
The problem of staying in INDIA is that the major home theater brands (Paradigm,B&W,Tannoy etc) Are'nt easily available so demo-ing them is not possible plus the distributors here are just after money and their is a huge difference in their international prices and prices in INDIA.

so i guess have to go by my instinct while buying these things rather than after actually listening to them

and if anyone knows a place where i can demo these brands near DELHI NCR please let me know
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenus View Post
^BS, Sanjay is based in Delhi I think and I am from Mumbai so please drop this "Boo-hoo I live in INDIA jahan pe kuch nahin milta" attitude. These brands may not be available at your e-zone kind of store but I'm sure you'll have high-end audio shops in Delhi that will be stocking them with demo pieces. It's ridiculous that you should have to buy lakhs worth of equipment based on someone's word.

See if this thread at the hifivision.org forums helps you:
http://www.hifivision.com/authorised...ler-delhi.html
@ravenus
What Divyansh said is true to a certain extent. I bought my Polk speakers from Pro-FX in Chennai and I had requested more brands for demo but they only had a few. Most of these guys only have a few models in-store and they get the others from their warehouses upon order.
Obviously, if you tell them you want to demo 11 sets of speakers, they won't oblige. Not to mention, with the high number of speakers available, it's better to narrow it down to a few choices before heading out. Other people's word is highly helpful in this regard.

@Divyansh
One thing I'm gonna tell you to look out for when you demo speakers is the dialogue. I would reccommend the Polk speakers I have except the center (CS20 model). The dialogue is sounds a bit screechy and doesn't sound 'deep'. I noticed this recently and thought I blew a tweeter but after having it checked, it was not the case.
Pay attention to the highs as well. Like anibap said, you should have a balance of bass and treble.
Calibration is just as important as the equipment you buy. Be aware of the fact that most of these guys in the store sometimes don't calibrate the equipment and simply plug them in.
You also have a choice between a down-firing and front-firing subwoofer.
I would go for the down-firing sub-woofer as the bass is more 'even' that way. It's less 'in your chest' and more evenly spread out through the room and especially the furniture. Also note that most subs can have their orientation changed if later if you want to.
THis might be a minor thing that most receivers support these days but just to be on the safe side make sure the receiver will be able to apply DOlby Pro Logic IIx processing(5.1 to 7.1), etc when audyssey settings are being implemented simultaneously as well.
You should also consider 9.1 as most receivers support Dolby Pro Logix IIz (5.1/7.1 to 9.1). All you'll have to do is buy two addition speakers which will be placed above the front speakers (these will be the height channels). You can do this provided the receiver is able to power 9 speakers. If not you can always get an amp for a lower cost.
Obviously, there aren't any 9.1 blu-rays (Red Tails and Brave were both Dolby Auro 11.1 but we got a 5.1 track for Red Tails on blu) but the 5.1 to 7.1 matrixing done by Pro Logic IIx is pretty impressive. I'm sure Pro Logic IIz will be of the same calibre.
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:48 PM   #44
divyansh divyansh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenus View Post
^BS, Sanjay is based in Delhi I think and I am from Mumbai so please drop this "Boo-hoo I live in INDIA jahan pe kuch nahin milta" attitude. These brands may not be available at your e-zone kind of store but I'm sure you'll have high-end audio shops in Delhi that will be stocking them with demo pieces. It's ridiculous that you should have to buy lakhs worth of equipment based on someone's word.

See if this thread at the hifivision.org forums helps you:
http://www.hifivision.com/authorised...ler-delhi.html
obviously high end shops do stock FEW... FEW and selected items and the choice is definetly not as wide in as say a other country and obviously iam not expecting to get these things from E-ZONE or CHROMA!

and sanjay also if iam not wrong imported his speakers from some other country rather than purchasing them from INDIAN so called high end shops (which do nothing but pick your pockets!)

i just want to make a smart buy and want to get best stuff at lowest possible prices that's all.

P.S obviously my dad wont be spending this type of money with just my research over the internet and we'll start visiting some shops when the purchase date come's closer :-)

so i'am gathering information about the brands i have to look for and the places to get these and maybe getting a demo of a few of them.

Last edited by divyansh; 10-02-2012 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:00 PM   #45
sanjay0864 sanjay0864 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divyansh View Post
as i told you my budget for speakers and reciever is 4-4.5 lakhs (rest reserved for pt ae7000u) now please sujjest something within it :-)
and should i spend more on reciever? (as i told you 50k for this rest 400k for speakers)
Considering that you are at least a year away from actual purchase, I think it is too early to lock in into any particular receiver. Simply because in this time, all the companies will have newer models out, with newer features, fixes of old issues and introduction of maybe some new issues.
As for your budgeting, you must understand a very simple, yet rarely followed adage, that the chain is only as strong as the weakest link in the chain. Thus spending a lot of money on good speakers and then powering them with a cheap receiver, is a bad idea and a waste of money. If you spend only 50k on your receiver, then your system will sound only as good as that 50k receiver. Quite honestly, although I am not totally updated with current prices in India, I think 50k for a receiver from a total budget of 7lakhs is way too little. Personally I would set aside about 1lakh for a receiver, 4 lakhs for speakers+sub-woofer and the balance 2 lakhs for a projector/screen. Personally, I would not recommend any receiver below the Denon AVR-3313CI or it's equivalent at the very minimum. Specially not for a home theater of the level that you intend to build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by divyansh View Post
The problem of staying in INDIA is that the major home theater brands (Paradigm,B&W,Tannoy etc) Are'nt easily available so demo-ing them is not possible plus the distributors here are just after money and their is a huge difference in their international prices and prices in INDIA.

so i guess have to go by my instinct while buying these things rather than after actually listening to them

and if anyone knows a place where i can demo these brands near DELHI NCR please let me know
Demos for all three brands that you mentioned are available. Although I must add, that due to availability of stocks and other limitations, demos for all models may not be always possible. You are right about the pricing in India of these brands, in fact all brands, being much higher than International prices. But, I can help with the demo and the pricing of at least one of the brands mentioned by you, if not all three.

Last edited by sanjay0864; 10-02-2012 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:38 AM   #46
srinivas1015 srinivas1015 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjay0864 View Post
The DLP vs LCD debate is an old one and I suppose is not going away any time soon. I have realized by now that debating this in forums is pretty pointless and never ending. Thus each to their own, I say. But there is one thing that should never be forgotten. That each technology has it's strengths and weaknesses and there are no clear winners. As for the "minimal ghosting" on the Panasonic PT-AE7000, by "minimal" I meant very rarely seen. In fact amongst the 15-20 odd 3D titles I have viewed to date, I have probably only noticed it maybe a couple of times and that too only when I was actually looking for it. Having had a first hand experience, I really don't need to depend on forum threads to tell me what my eyes can see for themselves.
That I agree with. I also wanted to ask you what you personally prefer - Passive or Active 3D? (Don't take into account the brightness or the loss in resolution in Passive HDTVs. Let's compare Passive 3D in theatres to the active 3D in home theatre projectors.)
I prefer active. Despite some people saying they experience strain due to the flickering, the 3D experience is actually better with active. The depth and foreground objects (you can call it pop-up, I guess as I'm talking about objects that are out of the screen but don't come at you.) have a more 'natural' feel. With passive, the pop-outs are a lot more convincing but I don't feel it is as immersive as active tech. It's far easier to view the layers with respect to the screen's position. I don't know how to put this into words exactly, but passive 3D feels like you're watching a movie with depth and pop out with respect to the screen whereas active feels more like watching a movie in volume. Foreground placement feels more natural and pronounced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjay0864 View Post
Once again, the difference between 720p and 1080p is actually a lot. As for 4k, I am sorry but you are very wrong if you think that native 4k projectors will be priced in the range of the AE7000 in the next two years.
You would be surprised to know far we've come with 4k. The current blu-ray players obviously won't be able to handle 4K processing as it need lots of CPU power. Whether something can be done via firmware updates is something we'll have to wait and see but I highly doubt it.
I never said 4K projectors will be priced at the current AE7000u cost. The Sony 4k projector available now is for around 17,000 $. Within the next two or three years, it will be around 6,000$. Why spend 2lakhs on 1080p now when you can get 4k for 3.5 or 4lakhs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjay0864 View Post
PS: It's rather strange and ironical, for someone who thinks that there is not much benefit to 2K, to be championing the cause of 4k.
Read my post again. I never said there is not much benefit to 1080p (2k is slightly higher than 1080p. They are NOT the same). If I had had the choice of going 3D 1080p, I definitely would have. But as of right now, when we are on the brink of 4K, it would be foolish to invest 7-8 lakhs on a 1080p system. It would be smarter to spend less or wait. He isn't planning on buying for a whole other year. Might as well wait another year and see what happens.
1080p is 2.35 as many pixels as 720p.

4k = 4096 pixels WIDE
2k = 2048 pixels WIDE
1080p = 1920 pixels WIDE
720p = 1280 pixels WIDE





As you can see, the jump to 4K from 1080p will be far greater than the jump from 720p to 1080p.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjay0864 View Post
That my dear friend is not going to happen. Not soon, not later. The blu-ray technology does not have the ability to handle 4K and not just for the lack of space. For 4K, a totally new technology and standard will need to be worked on. Something I guarantee, is not going to happen in the next "two years".
No. I am not misinformed about this. It is very, very unlikely that you will ever have HDMI 1.5. Even if there is an update to the HDMI spec, it will still most likely never actually be incorporated into new technologies. For, HDMI itself is already set to be replaced by a new standard, HDBaseT. HDBaseT is the new standard agreed upon by the industry as the next standard for A/V connectors.
I'm not sure where you're getting your 'facts', but you couldn't be more wrong.
Firstly, they're gonna make sure 4K tech is backwards compatible with current blu-rays.
Blu-rays can have a maximum of 8 layers physically and as of right now, they can easily make quad-layered (200gb) discs.
The Digital Cinema Initiatives (DCI) specifications use a maximum of 250 Mbits/sec for a JPEG2000 compressed 4K image. At this rate, a two-hour 4k film would be 225GB for the image only, excluding the audio.
But this can be easily brought down by various compression techniques. It depends on what they go with.
Initially, blu-ray utilized an MGEG2 codec. Now, MPEG-4 AVC is used for 2D blu-rays. Once 3D came into play, MPEG-4 MVC was used, which allowed for 2D play as well.
Most players could handle 3D with a firmware update and though this will be a lot harder with 4K, it's not entirely impossible as long as they can utilise the CPU properly. IT all depends on the compression. Once 4K blu-rays start rolling out, it won't be long before 4K projector prices start falling.
If you think it's far away, look back and see how fast the 3D revolution took place and how quickly the prices plummeted.

I guarantee HDMI will be used for 4K. As of now, 4K players/receivers/projectors use HDMI as they can handle the bandwidth and that's not gonna change anytime in the future. HDBaseT is the next standard for the home industry but not for 4K. The current 4K devices already utilise HDMI. Most players and receivers upscale 1080p to 4k. The PS4 is rumored to have 4K support as well.
With all this knowledge, it's not wise to invest such a large sum of money right now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjay0864 View Post
There are certainly some advantages to a HTPC, but then there are disadvantages too. The advantages being specially more so for people who watch piracy. I personally only watch original blu-rays and prefer my dedicated blu-ray player over a HTPC any day.


Firstly, I don't condone piracy and those were not the advantages I was talking about. The major advantages include removing the region locks and the flexibility of the device. Only so much can be done with firmware upgrades to a blu-ray player. If 4K comes out, I won't have to buy a blu-ray player, all I'll need to do is update my software. My CPU is more than capable of handling the processing required. This may seem like a minor point but is actually not - the seeking is much easier with a mouse than using the chapter skip and forward buttons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjay0864 View Post
Issues with some 'particular' Denon receivers from a single model year, does not change the fact that they are the No.1 a/v receiver brand by far and that they do make excellent a/v receivers. In any case the issue that you mention is software related and one that can be fixed by a firmware update. With digital a/v, such issues are now part and parcel of this industry.
But one should be careful while presenting one's opinion so that it does not come across as a statement of fact. Specially in matters that are very subjective and thus debatable.
Like anibap said, it doesn't depend on the brand but the nature of the receiver (warm sounding, etc).
I can say the exact same thing with regards to the text in bold. It's bad advice to tell Divyansh to spend as high as a lakh on a receiver. I'm not saying he should cheap out either but after a certain point all you get is useless features such as streaming, etc. As long as you have a good sounding receiver with Audyssey and other features such as Dynamic EQ, Dynamic Volume, PL IIx processing,THX, etc, you're good to go. These can be had for 50,000 r.s I'm really happy with my Onkyo. Like people in other threads have said, Onkyo and Polk are an excellent combo give you the most bang for your buck.



Bottom line is, 4K is over the horizon and is closer than you think. That being said, nothing as certain and you nor I can say for certain about its deployment in the home industry.
With all these facts, Divyansh should make his own decision about his investment, how much he wants to invest and when to do it.
He knows what to look for in terms of sound and video. In my opinion, Denon receivers are over-priced and like you said, with lower models, you'll be buying just for the brand. I don't see the point of doing that. They don't gve the most bang for your buck.
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:41 AM   #47
srinivas1015 srinivas1015 is offline
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Originally Posted by divyansh View Post


o really... that's great now i'll blindly follow what you'll recommend
as i told you my budget for speakers and reciever is 4-4.5 lakhs (rest reserved for pt ae7000u) now please sujjest something within it :-)
and should i spend more on reciever? (as i told you 50k for this rest 400k for speakers)

Umm...Really?



We'll give you all the facts and like anibap and ravenus have said, you should get what you like even if every other person says it's crap. Cos it wouldn't make sense to get something that you don't like but everybody else approves.
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:44 AM   #48
srinivas1015 srinivas1015 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjay0864 View Post
Considering that you are at least a year away from actual purchase, I think it is too early to lock in into any particular receiver. Simply because in this time, all the companies will have newer models out, with newer features, fixes of old issues and introduction of maybe some new issues.
As for your budgeting, you must understand a very simple, yet rarely followed adage, that the chain is only as strong as the weakest link in the chain. Thus spending a lot of money on good speakers and then powering them with a cheap receiver, is a bad idea and a waste of money. If you spend only 50k on your receiver, then your system will sound only as good as that 50k receiver. Quite honestly, although I am not totally updated with current prices in India, I think 50k for a receiver from a total budget of 7lakhs is way too little. Personally I would set aside about 1lakh for a receiver, 4 lakhs for speakers+sub-woofer and the balance 2 lakhs for a projector/screen. Personally, I would not recommend any receiver below the Denon AVR-3313CI or it's equivalent at the very minimum. Specially not for a home theater of the level that you intend to build.


Demos for all three brands that you mentioned are available. Although I must add, that due to availability of stocks and other limitations, demos for all models may not be always possible. You are right about the pricing in India of these brands, in fact all brands, being much higher than International prices. But, I can help with the demo and the pricing of at least one of the brands mentioned by you, if not all three.
Most receivers aren't phenomenal at powering speakers. It would be better to get a receiver (with pre-outs) for around 50,000 and spend the rest getting an amp. This would be better than spending that much only on a receiver.
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:48 AM   #49
srinivas1015 srinivas1015 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divyansh View Post
obviously high end shops do stock FEW... FEW and selected items and the choice is definetly not as wide in as say a other country and obviously iam not expecting to get these things from E-ZONE or CHROMA!

and sanjay also if iam not wrong imported his speakers from some other country rather than purchasing them from INDIAN so called high end shops (which do nothing but pick your pockets!)

i just want to make a smart buy and want to get best stuff at lowest possible prices that's all.

P.S obviously my dad wont be spending this type of money with just my research over the internet and we'll start visiting some shops when the purchase date come's closer :-)

so i'am gathering information about the brands i have to look for and the places to get these and maybe getting a demo of a few of them.
Import the receiver(got mine from Amazon) and buy the speakers in India. It's better to buy speakers from a place where you'll be able return/exchange if something goes wrong. This applies to almost every electronics item but more so to speakers and projectors.
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:03 PM   #50
surma884 surma884 is offline
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Regarding the 4k discussion. I don't think we will see 4k in the homes until at least 5 years. My opinion is that 4k won't come to the homes until 10 years from now. DVD sales are still way too high. It's amazing how many people can't see a difference between DVD and 1080p. Majority of the people in the US should have a BluRay player now, and I'm surprised Hollywood studios keep releasing DVDs.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:43 AM   #51
srinivas1015 srinivas1015 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
DLP is much better than LCOS when it comes to 3D. When watching parallax heavy movies, ghosting is present. Why settle for minimal ghosting when you can have zero ghosting? (There are actually numerous threads dedicated to severe ghosting on the ae7000u.)
I never said there wasn't a difference between 720p and 1080p. I'm also aware of the checkerboard effect and pixel density. 4K is currently priced way too high but that is going to change in 2 years. Blu-ray players that upscale to 4K are already rolling out and it won't be long before 4K blu-rays come out as BD-100s are available.
If he's spending 7lakhs, I doubt he's planning to upgrade again in another 5years. I've seen 4K and the jump from 1080p to 4k is far greater than the jump from 720p to 1080p.
When I got my projector, there were no 3D 1080p projectors below 10000$. I had to make a choice between 720p 3D and 1080p 2D. As of now, I still think I made the right call back then. If someone's investing in a H.T, they should go for the highest resolution possible. That being said, it would be wiser to spend as much as possible on the audio system right now and get a 720p 3D projector which can be had for as little as 50,000 r.s. . Once 4K comes out, he can invest in that. Spending 2lakhs right now wouldn't be a good idea knowing about 4k. But if he doesn't plan on upgrading or is content with 2k, then he should go with a 1080p projector.
But DLP is far better than LCOS and LCD when it comes to 3D. Going for a 3D DLP 1080p projector would be the best option. I think you're misinformed about new 'technologies' that have to be developed for 4K. We'll probably get HDMI 1.5 allowing for more bandwidth. This is another reason having an HTPC would be better. When 4K and Dolby 11.1 are released, you'll have to upgrade the player and receiver as well. With a PC, you'll simply need to get a new graphics card and MAYBE a new BD drive. The software will be able to decode the 11.1 audio and send it as PCM so there won't be any need to buy a new receiver. Yes, he'll need to get a new amp and most players can decode lossless tracks but updates to software are free once you buy it and changing a few components is far easier and cheaper than revamping the entire setup.
Denon has problems decoding several blu-ray tracks and the receivers are over-priced. (google 'star wars blu ray Denon')


@divyansh
You are planning on getting a 16:9 screen, right?



@sanjay,
Again, just like you I mean no offence by my post either. I'm only telling what I would do in his situation. Do you deal in these products? If I want to buy something like a projector lamp, can I buy it from you?
Remember what I said about 11.1 before? The Expendables 2 will be the first blu-ray to incorporate an 11.1 mix .
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:44 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
Remember what I said about 11.1 before? The Expendables 2 will be the first blu-ray to incorporate an 11.1 mix .
The 'Expendables 2' Blu-ray will get the DTS Neo:X 11.1 treatment. The key word being treatment. The actual encode on the blu-ray will still be a 'DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1' track only. The existing blu-ray specs allow for only 7.1 discreet channels. DTS:Neo X is not a sound format, it is just a post-process conversion technology. It is somewhat similar to Dolby's Pro Logic IIz and Audyssey's DSX.
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:56 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjay0864 View Post
The 'Expendables 2' Blu-ray will get the DTS Neo:X 11.1 treatment. The key word being treatment. The actual encode on the blu-ray will still be a 'DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1' track only. The existing blu-ray specs allow for only 7.1 discreet channels. DTS:Neo X is not a sound format, it is just a post-process conversion technology. It is somewhat similar to Dolby's Pro Logic IIz and Audyssey's DSX.

Crap .
Yeah, I know what DTS:Neo X is. I don't understand why Lionsgate does this. A person having an 11.1 system must be having a receiver capable of matrixing to 11.1 . Remember when Lionsgate used to matrix 5.1 to 7.1 and advertise it as real 7.1? (I think I recall somebody saying the recent Cabin in the Woods is an upmix as well.)

Well, atleast they're being honest this time around. Red Tails was released with Atmos as well but for some reason Fox issued a 5.1 mix for the blu-ray. I don't understand these studios sometimes.
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:38 PM   #54
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drjay,

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Old 10-12-2012, 03:28 PM   #55
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:40 PM   #56
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great set up
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Old 10-13-2012, 01:04 AM   #57
sanjay0864 sanjay0864 is offline
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Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
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Originally Posted by sanjay0864 View Post
The 'Expendables 2' Blu-ray will get the DTS Neo:X 11.1 treatment. The key word being treatment. The actual encode on the blu-ray will still be a 'DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1' track only. The existing blu-ray specs allow for only 7.1 discreet channels. DTS:Neo X is not a sound format, it is just a post-process conversion technology. It is somewhat similar to Dolby's Pro Logic IIz and Audyssey's DSX.
Crap .
Yeah, I know what DTS:Neo X is.
You do? It's just that your earlier post, reproduced below, led me to believe otherwise.
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Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
Remember what I said about 11.1 before? The Expendables 2 will be the first blu-ray to incorporate an 11.1 mix .
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Old 10-13-2012, 03:14 AM   #58
sanjay0864 sanjay0864 is offline
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Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
That I agree with. I also wanted to ask you what you personally prefer - Passive or Active 3D? (Don't take into account the brightness or the loss in resolution in Passive HDTVs. Let's compare Passive 3D in theatres to the active 3D in home theatre projectors.)
I prefer Active 3D.

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Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
You would be surprised to know far we've come with 4k. The current blu-ray players obviously won't be able to handle 4K processing as it need lots of CPU power. Whether something can be done via firmware updates is something we'll have to wait and see but I highly doubt it.
I am quite well versed with where 4k is today, having seen several 4k screenings, in both commercial and home theater settings. Current blu-ray players cannot and will not ever be able to handle 4k. Not only for the lack of processing, but primarily because the blu-ray format as spec'd currently, itself is not equipped to handle 4k.

PS: For the umpteenth time, it's not just about space.

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Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
I never said 4K projectors will be priced at the current AE7000u cost. The Sony 4k projector available now is for around 17,000 $. Within the next two or three years, it will be around 6,000$.
Well, if it won't be priced at the AE7000 price point, then it is not a competitor/replacement for the AE7000. Now, is it?. Even if 4K is available for $6000 in a year or two, which it very well might, that is still 250% more than the current AE7000 price. Also, I don't know anyone who is passionate about movies & home theater, who would want to wait 2-3 yrs. There is always something new around the corner. Thus, if one took the waiting approach, then they would be waiting eternally. Product life cycles are only getting shorter by the day.

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Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
Why spend 2lakhs on 1080p now when you can get 4k for 3.5 or 4lakhs?
Well, in the first place you don't need to spend 2lakhs to get 1080p. More importantly, 4lakhs is 'only' TWICE as expensive as 2lakhs and more importantly a whole 2 lakhs more, that's why.

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Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
Read my post again. I never said there is not much benefit to 1080p (2k is slightly higher than 1080p. They are NOT the same). If I had had the choice of going 3D 1080p, I definitely would have. But as of right now, when we are on the brink of 4K, it would be foolish to invest 7-8 lakhs on a 1080p system. It would be smarter to spend less or wait. He isn't planning on buying for a whole other year. Might as well wait another year and see what happens.
1080p is 2.35 as many pixels as 720p.
Actually, you did imply that there wasn't much benefit to 1080p over 720p. Also, If we are going to get pedantic about things, then 2K is only a theatrical format and it's home theater equivalent is 1080p, even though they may not exactly be identical in numbers.

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Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
1080p is 2.35 as many pixels as 720p.
4k = 4096 pixels WIDE
2k = 2048 pixels WIDE
1080p = 1920 pixels WIDE
720p = 1280 pixels WIDE

As you can see, the jump to 4K from 1080p will be far greater than the jump from 720p to 1080p.
If audio/video quality was just about numbers, then you might have been right. But that is not the case. So even though mathematically you are right, the fact is that those numbers do not translate in direct proportion to a real world difference. Everything has a factor of diminishing returns and it is very much also the case with picture resolution too. The visual acquity of the human eye, without getting into the other factors, is enough to make higher resolutions rather irrelevant in most home theater settings. Any idea what percentage of people have projectors? Let alone screens larger than 100 inches. Let's just say it's a very, very small percentage. Please don't misunderstand me, I am in no way suggesting that 4k is not better, or that it will not filter down into cheaper, but not necessarily cheap, projectors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
I'm not sure where you're getting your 'facts', but you couldn't be more wrong.
Firstly, they're gonna make sure 4K tech is backwards compatible with current blu-rays.
I am not sure what you mean by that. If you are insisting that somehow any new 4k technology will be playable on existing blu-ray hardware, then I am sorry, but you are just plain wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
Blu-rays can have a maximum of 8 layers physically and as of right now, they can easily make quad-layered (200gb) discs.
The Digital Cinema Initiatives (DCI) specifications use a maximum of 250 Mbits/sec for a JPEG2000 compressed 4K image. At this rate, a two-hour 4k film would be 225GB for the image only, excluding the audio.
But this can be easily brought down by various compression techniques. It depends on what they go with.
Initially, blu-ray utilized an MGEG2 codec. Now, MPEG-4 AVC is used for 2D blu-rays. Once 3D came into play, MPEG-4 MVC was used, which allowed for 2D play as well.
Most players could handle 3D with a firmware update and though this will be a lot harder with 4K, it's not entirely impossible as long as they can utilise the CPU properly. IT all depends on the compression. Once 4K blu-rays start rolling out, it won't be long before 4K projector prices start falling.
If you think it's far away, look back and see how fast the 3D revolution took place and how quickly the prices plummeted.
For the umpteenth time, the reasons why 4k cannot be incorporated into the existing blu-ray format, is not limited to just the space issue. There is the bigger problem of getting all the players involved, that includes hardware, software & codec companies, even if only to agree upon modifying the blu-ray specs to accommodate 4k. Of course the technical hurdles in incorporating 4k into blu-ray are not anywhere as trivial as you are making it out to be.

PS: To get a better understanding of what I am saying, I suggest you read up a little on the history of the DVD format and the Blu-ray format wars. Also, read up on all that happened before the specs for those two formats were finalized.

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Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
Once 4K blu-rays start rolling out, it won't be long before 4K projector prices start falling.
If you think it's far away, look back and see how fast the 3D revolution took place and how quickly the prices plummeted.
I am sorry to disappoint you, but 4k blu-rays are not going to roll out anytime soon, if ever. By the way, have you thought that it is entirely possible that the industry might actually overlook 4k and jump straight to 8k or even higher resolutions. Work on even 16k formats are already being worked on by major players in this arena.

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Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
I guarantee HDMI will be used for 4K. As of now, 4K players/receivers/projectors use HDMI as they can handle the bandwidth and that's not gonna change anytime in the future.
Guarantee? You must be privy to information that even the industry itself is not aware of. If by "used for 4k", you are referring to up-scaled pictures, then we all know that it is already being used for that purpose. But as for real 4k sources, I am sorry but no such thing even exists yet, not commercially that is.

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Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
HDBaseT is the next standard for the home industry but not for 4K.
Huh! What sense does that make? Your statement seems to imply that the HDBaseT specs, somehow rule out it's use for 4K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
The PS4 is rumored to have 4K support as well.
With all this knowledge, it's not wise to invest such a large sum of money right now.
First of all, as you said it is just rumors. But more importantly, even the rumor is of it supporting 4k up-scaling and not any kind of native 4k support. Even now, five years after the PS3 was released, there are very few genuinely real 1080p games for the PS3 and you really think that there will be 4k games within the next year or so? Which is the rumored time-frame for the PS4 release. In fact, almost all of the even so called 1080p games are not truly 1080p and are rendered at something less, more like 960 x 1080 pixels (as opposed to 1920 x 1080 pixels).

Quote:
Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
Firstly, I don't condone piracy and those were not the advantages I was talking about.
I am glad that you don't condone piracy. But although it may not be so in your case, the fact is, that most people who prefer HTPCs, do so because of piracy.

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Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
The major advantages include removing the region locks and the flexibility of the device.
Buy a Region A player and you pretty much very rarely ever have to face a Region code issue in India. Better yet, mod your blu-ray player to play all Regions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
This may seem like a minor point but is actually not - the seeking is much easier with a mouse than using the chapter skip and forward buttons.
Everyone has their own opinions and preferences on how they like to do things. But the fact is, that for me and most people I know, navigating a disc on a dedicated blu-ray player is by far a lot simpler and faster. Not to mention the whole nuisance of handling a mouse in a real, darkened home theater setting. Give me a remote, any day.
I have a, more than capable, PC in my home theater room, that I have never even bothered to hook up to the projector. That is how useful I think the PC is for my HT needs. Of course you are more than entitled to your preference and opinion. Just that, most people don't necessarily have the same preference as yours.

PS: For someone so concerned with the costing, or should I say value of HT equipment, you sure do use a very expensive alternate to a blu-ray player. For the amount you would have spent on a reasonably good HTPC, you can easily afford to replace your blu-ray player with a more current one, if and when the need so arises.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
Like anibap said, it doesn't depend on the brand but the nature of the receiver (warm sounding, etc).
I can say the exact same thing with regards to the text in bold. It's bad advice to tell Divyansh to spend as high as a lakh on a receiver. I'm not saying he should cheap out either but after a certain point all you get is useless features such as streaming, etc. As long as you have a good sounding receiver with Audyssey and other features such as Dynamic EQ, Dynamic Volume, PL IIx processing,THX, etc, you're good to go. These can be had for 50,000 r.s I'm really happy with my Onkyo. Like people in other threads have said, Onkyo and Polk are an excellent combo give you the most bang for your buck.
Wow. It's obvious that you do know a whole lot more about this, than at least I do. Therefore, I think it's best that I should bow out politely from this debate and let people with far more experience and knowledge than I, help Divyansh. That is, if he is even looking for help, or are we just being presumptuous here.

Just one question though, how many good quality receivers, have you actually heard? Then again, quality is relative and therefore any answer will be open to debate, specially if someone is bent upon simply putting forth their point of view. The fact is, most receivers from the major brands are "good". Any assessment just depends on the needs of the person and/or the exposure of the person making the judgement. As for your being happy with your setup, I say good for you. But please, don't for a minute think that your setup is good, simply because you are happy with it. Not saying that your setup is not actually good, for your needs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
Bottom line is, 4K is over the horizon and is closer than you think. That being said, nothing as certain and you nor I can say for certain about its deployment in the home industry.
4k in projection is not over the horizon, but is already here. It's just the cost that is of question anymore. But, as far as sourcing of 4k content & signal is concerned, it is not around the corner. Mind you, by 4k, I mean 'REAL, Native 4k'. Don't ever forget, that the final say with any new home video format, ultimately lies with the Hollywood studios. Who are in no real hurry to supplant blu-ray with any new 4k tech, even if it is just an updated/upgraded blu-ray format.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
With all these facts, Divyansh should make his own decision about his investment, how much he wants to invest and when to do it. He knows what to look for in terms of sound and video. In my opinion, Denon receivers are over-priced and like you said, with lower models, you'll be buying just for the brand. I don't see the point of doing that. They don't gve the most bang for your buck.
Well, of course Divyansh should and will make his own decision. This is one thing I can whole heartedly agree with you on. Although, taking the help of others who may have more knowledge or exposure on the subject, is just good sense. I do have one small, yet extremely important advise for Divyansh, or anyone else interested in putting together a home theater. Always remember the adage, "A chain is only as strong as the weakest link in the chain".

PS: Higher end a/v receivers are not necessarily more expensive due to additional features. Rather, it is the quality of components used, specially in the processing and very importantly the power amplifier section of the receiver that makes them worthy of the additional money spent. Of course, like with most everything else, there will always be some factor of diminishing returns.
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Old 10-13-2012, 04:51 AM   #59
pkhammu2005 pkhammu2005 is offline
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well said sanjay,this is why we all respect u
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:31 AM   #60
toddly6666 toddly6666 is offline
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There's a home theater gallery section for this. This doesn't belong with Indian Blu-rays.
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