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Old 09-10-2019, 07:13 AM   #21
sperezmore sperezmore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Luckard View Post
My disc just arrived. It plays on US equipment.

I A/B'd this and the old theatrical cut DVD. I had forgotten that not only is it a flipper, it's a 4:3 letterboxed transfer, the worst of both worlds. It's likely a repurposed old laserdisc transfer.

This new BD blows it out of the water.

On the other hand, does the new BD look appalling, in the abstract? Yes. It looks like a badly compressed quicktime file from 2004. Yes, it's pixely, yes the onscreen titles have strange shimmery pixels around them, probably due to oversharpening.

That said, the DVD looks 1000x more wretched.

Is this a million miles from a remastered version of the theatrical cut? Unquestionably. Is it likely the only HD version we will ever get of the theatrical cut? Entirely possible.

For the moment, I'm grateful to have it.

Just don't sit too close to your TV, and you won't notice quite how dreadful the transfer is, haha. It's still better than the great big nothing we had before.
Thank you.

Got my copy today also

Regards,
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:16 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Phil View Post
My earlier outburst was the result of crushing initial disappointment so I'll qualify it a bit now i've calmed down and have spent some more time with the disc.

I'll upgrade my assessment to 'Eh, it's watchable, sort of, just seriously temper those expectations'. People with smaller screens will fair better with it - but at 65" it's brutal.

The thing is, i'm willing to overlook a whole lot for this theatrical cut. Telecine wobble - I don't care, poor colours - I don't care, flat looking - I don't care, lacklustre detail - I don't care, lame contrast - meh, I don't care, print damage - honestly don't care. My issue is with how completely digital it looks. The screen is constantly alive with shifting macroblocks - I don't know if this is due to Via Vision's terrible encode, or if it's somehow weirdly inherent to the master. If it is the encode, then it's hands down the worst encode i've ever seen in thousands of discs. Either way, it's incredibly distracting - a barrier between myself and the presentation underneath.

Last of the Mohicans has a similarly ancient master BUT it doesn't exhibit this same level of digital garbage so it's eminently more watchable.

So there you have it. One hot take, and one slightly more eloquent one. Is it utter garbage? Or just kinda shite? The choice......is yours



Then you'll be damn happy. No flipping required
Damn shame, how's the extended cut look though?

Dunno why they couldn't recreate it from that version if it looks better.
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:37 AM   #23
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Damn, my JB order already shipped. Man, that is a serious bummer. This is the last time I buy a disc like this without reading reviews.

Maybe it won't look that bad...maybe.
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:46 AM   #24
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Sounds like the theatrical cut should've been included as a bonus rather than as something which doubled the price. That led me to expect something of comparable quality to the extended cut.
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:48 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CreasyBear View Post
Damn, my JB order already shipped. Man, that is a serious bummer. This is the last time I buy a disc like this without reading reviews.

Maybe it won't look that bad...maybe.
Hopefully i've lowered your expectations so much that when you finally get it, you'll almost be pleasantly surprised....almost

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markgway View Post
Sounds like the theatrical cut should've been included as a bonus rather than as something which doubled the price. That led me to expect something of comparable quality to the extended cut.
This is where I set the bar too - i.e. hopefully it'll look as good as the extended cut. And that's a pretty lowwwww bar because the Warner Bros disc was already one of the formats most lacklustre titles. I remember being disappointed with that thing back in 2009.

Last edited by Fat Phil; 09-10-2019 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 09-11-2019, 01:39 PM   #26
StrayButler91 StrayButler91 is online now
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Just to let everyone know, the theatrical cut is 1.85:1 with a bitrate of 24.99 Mbps. Not that it matters any, because it does look bloody awful. It looks like Via Vision found an old torrent and slapped that on a disc, due to all the macroblocking and such. Theatrical cut has DTS-HD MA 5.1 and LPCM 2.0 audio. No subtitles. The theatrical disc also houses all of the extras except for the commentaries.

Extended cut is the exact same encode as the previous disc, VC-1 at 24.70 Mbps. For audio, there's a lossy Dolby Digital 5.1 track and a DTS-HD MA 5.1 track. The only thing it lacks is the isolated score track, which is a minor exclusion but some might care about it.

This is a review disc, so I'm not as annoyed as some consumers might be, but I don't think Via Vision will be overly happy with my words. But eh, they should aspire to be better.
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Old 09-11-2019, 02:28 PM   #27
Markgway Markgway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrayButler91 View Post
This is a review disc, so I'm not as annoyed as some consumers might be, but I don't think Via Vision will be overly happy with my words. But eh, they should aspire to be better.
Can you tell us where to find your review (when it's done)?
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:44 PM   #28
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Quote:
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Can you tell us where to find your review (when it's done)?
Yup, Iíll post the review when itís up
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:18 PM   #29
CreasyBear CreasyBear is offline
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Just received mine and am currently watching it. Yes, the theatrical cut looks rough, almost like they upscaled the old DVD. It's...watchable on my plasma, but certainly a lot of room for improvement. This is a crushing disappointment.

Still, I'd rather watch this than the Extended Cut.
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:42 PM   #30
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Goddamn it. I might as well just stick to watching my DVD of the theatrical cut, side break and all.
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:46 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
Goddamn it. I might as well just stick to watching my DVD of the theatrical cut, side break and all.
It's definitely better than the DVD and the audio is very good. But yeah, why they didn't just cut the theatrical out of the extended cut transfer, I don't know.
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:51 PM   #32
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I'm not gonna go out of my way to buy it though, whereas Mohicans I'm gonna get for sure. Gonna order it now, in fact.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:35 PM   #33
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I don't own any version of this film, as what I've read about the extended cut gives me pause. I'm planning to pick this up just to have the Theatrical in some form.

Unless I'm mistaken, according to the movie-censorship breakdown of the TC vs EC, I believe the two cuts use different footage/alternate takes for some of the extended scenes. For that reason I imagine it presents a particular challenge for the fanedit community to try and recreate a TC from the EC.

I'm definitely lowering my expectations for this one. But, as has been said, looking forward to what sounds like a respectable TC presentation for LOTM.
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Old 09-12-2019, 04:13 AM   #34
James Luckard James Luckard is online now
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Originally Posted by StrayButler91 View Post
The only thing it lacks is the isolated score track, which is a minor exclusion but some might care about it.
The old BD didn't have an isolated score, at least not the US BD. It had the same feature this new Aussie disc has, a dedicated bonus video that contains the soundtrack album (minus the pop songs) in 5.1. The Aussie BD actually improves on the old US BD, because with the old BD, you couldn't tell which track you were listening to once you started playing. The Aussie disc helpfully adds track titles onscreen as each track plays.
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Old 09-12-2019, 04:42 AM   #35
StrayButler91 StrayButler91 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Luckard View Post
The old BD didn't have an isolated score, at least not the US BD. It had the same feature this new Aussie disc has, a dedicated bonus video that contains the soundtrack album (minus the pop songs) in 5.1. The Aussie BD actually improves on the old US BD, because with the old BD, you couldn't tell which track you were listening to once you started playing. The Aussie disc helpfully adds track titles onscreen as each track plays.
Oh, my mistake. The back cover seems to suggest thereís a full isolated score track. The review of the US disc implies that, too:
Quote:
Isolated Score: You can listen to the full film sans dialogue and sound effects with Warner's Isolated Score track,
All good, then. The Aussie BD is as definitive as we have right now.
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:39 AM   #36
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So this and Mohicans are not worth buying then? It's crazy I order them into store as a pre order so kept aside and they are still not in store but by the sounds they are not great transfers? Typical there is 20% off and still nothing in store, in fact I had a steelbook pre ordered for ages and I went to store to ask for it,I normally get text but none girl tell me that they only got so many and it was in order of pre orders, it's funny all the titles I wanted they don't seem to have and was sold on the items I had was pre ordered never had issues in past with anything.
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:58 AM   #37
James Luckard James Luckard is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrayButler91 View Post
Oh, my mistake. The back cover seems to suggest thereís a full isolated score track. The review of the US disc implies that, too:

All good, then. The Aussie BD is as definitive as we have right now.
Yep, they worded it vaguely and poorly, so it sounds like a full running isolated score track during the film, which it definitely is not. It's still a cool bonus feature though.
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Old 09-12-2019, 11:01 AM   #38
James Luckard James Luckard is online now
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So this and Mohicans are not worth buying then?
I don't think anyone has said that.

Mohicans is absolutely worth buying for any true fan of the film. It is far and away the best presentation ever of the theatrical cut, and likely the best we will ever get.

Robin Hood is in rougher shape, but still, it's the best presentation of its theatrical cut, and the differences in the two cuts of that film are even more massive than in Mohicans. I would still recommend any fan buy it, just have reasonable expectations for this antiquated master.
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Old 09-12-2019, 07:23 PM   #39
andreasy969 andreasy969 is online now
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Received mine today and it surpassed my expectations. But yeah, it's total crap.

I didn't own a DVD of the TC, so it's better than nothing from my POV (only have a VHS and no player...). Will still watch this over the Extended Cut I'm afraid (which looks like crap as well anyway IMO), because I hate the Extended Cut. But I won't recommend this to anyone.

The smaller your display, the better. This has to be watched with the mindset of watching a very special, very rare version. Taking off your glasses will help as well.

Think I'll post some caps of the disaster later, but maybe not today.
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Old 09-13-2019, 01:15 AM   #40
James Luckard James Luckard is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreasy969 View Post
The smaller your display, the better. This has to be watched with the mindset of watching a very special, very rare version. Taking off your glasses will help as well.
I find the transfer looks best when I'm in another room.

That said, it's the only option out there, after all these years, so I'm glad I have it.
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