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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Displays > OLED TVs

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Old 01-28-2022, 06:40 AM   #5081
Derb Derb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgpublic View Post
The data has been published, e.g., one 2008 technical report on an OLED TV panel found that after 1,000 hours, the blue luminance degraded by 12%, the red by 7% and the green by 8%. Fortunately, the safeguard tech has significantly improved over the past decade. Turn it off, game at 100% Lite-Brite for a few hours, degradation is instantaneous, the damage is done. But as you said, itís your set, your eyes, your money, do what you like. Itís only a TV.
Old news.

New news,

https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/arti.../CC/C4CC05108D



Also retention isnít possible for aspect ratio films. Pixels are on or they are not.

As per TPC, Iím using the remote as a toy. If I Only watched films/shows, Iíd have TPC Off & the SR in the garbage. Alas, I play games & I do notice very minor dimming on static HUDs when TPC is on.

So... back & forth with the remote is what Iíve settled on sorta..

The C9 has had a boat load of firmware updates compared to the C1. The C1 just got one today.

Dolby Vision is still 27.17 but I am gonna Test some dark content anyway with the latest firmware bomb.
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Old 01-28-2022, 07:32 AM   #5082
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Originally Posted by kuro_sawa View Post
Iím truly living a wild life - no plan, no protection, and no dimming! I really canít see how TPC is going to make even the smallest of difference in protecting the subtitle area from Ďburning iní eventually with my use. After having it off for a while I doubt it would even prevent any sort of aspect ratio burn in either. I think its purpose is more to extend the lifespan on the individual pixels(?) by some minuscule amount. It dims the entire screen depending on how dim the image on screen has been for X amount of time not by what is actually static, so the things I mentioned would still technically Ďburn iní over time. If all you watched was 1.33 subtitled content it isnít doing anything to prevent that image retention really. Iíve left the logo adjust setting (forget the name of it) on and I see zero effect on subtitles. In fact they are bright as hell in 4K and Iíd love to get a player that would let me control the transparency and/or brightness of them.
It doesn't work in that way. It's just for static logos that are staying on screen for a determined amount of time. The subtitles are changing costantly, so it doesn't intervene.
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Old 01-28-2022, 07:37 AM   #5083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgpublic View Post
The data has been published, e.g., one 2008 technical report on an OLED TV panel found that after 1,000 hours, the blue luminance degraded by 12%, the red by 7% and the green by 8%. Fortunately, the safeguard tech has significantly improved over the past decade. Turn it off, game at 100% Lite-Brite for a few hours, degradation is instantaneous, the damage is done. But as you said, it’s your set, your eyes, your money, do what you like. It’s only a TV.
Literally irrelevant to everything I said, but we are agreeing in the first place. I don’t own a game console either I just watch films on the thing which is maybe where there is a disconnect here and I notice an issue where you might not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by derb
Also retention isn’t possible for aspect ratio films. Pixels are on or they are not.

I mean, if you put a constant picture-boxed image on the screen for long enough you would get it regardless of your settings. It’s as relevant as any of the other crap we’ve been worried about regarding TPC. I think I have too much time on my hands and now going in circles in this thread

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Originally Posted by ValTur View Post
It doesn't work in that way. It's just for static logos that are staying on screen for a determined amount of time. The subtitles are changing costantly, so it doesn't intervene.
Must be why I noticed nothing So there is zero protection for subtitle area ‘burn in’ on the set. Even when the TPC dims it isn’t doing it to the subtitles which makes it even more pointless IMO.
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Old 01-28-2022, 12:07 PM   #5084
cgpublic cgpublic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derb View Post
The 'new' news which you cite is dated 2014, and it's not new news to me, which is why I stated OLED manufacturers have been very successful over the past decade in managing organic degradation.

Regardless, OLED technology requires organic compounds which degrade when exposed to electric current. It's the 'O' in OLED, and it's not news, old or new, that matters, but facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derb View Post
As per TPC, Iím using the remote as a toy.
You can call it whatever you like, but when you turn it off, the degradation of organic compounds is accelerated, and the degradation can not be measured by eyeballing your panel. Not at first, anyway. That's another fact.

But as I also stated, everyone is free to do as they please, it's their money, they own the set, and the consequences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuro_sawa View Post
Literally irrelevant to everything I said, but we are agreeing in the first place. I donít own a game console either I just watch films on the thing which is maybe where there is a disconnect here and I notice an issue where you might not.
Turning off TPC accelerates the degradation of the OLED panel regardless of usage, so there's no question that it is relevant.

However, we are in complete agreement that the consequences of OLED panel degradation varies upon the individual.

Just in these past few posts, we have someone who just spent $700 to address the potential for OLED panel degradation, and at the other end of the spectrum, we have those who have decided to circumvent the internal safeguards to improve the viewing experience in spite of accelerated OLED panel degradation.

That's freedom of choice, and for each choice, the associated consequences.
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Old 01-28-2022, 12:20 PM   #5085
Derb Derb is offline
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Originally Posted by kuro_sawa View Post
I mean, if you put a constant picture-boxed image on the screen for long enough you would get it regardless of your settings. It’s as relevant as any of the other crap we’ve been worried about regarding TPC. I think I have too much time on my hands and now going in circles in this thread
Well I gave LG a chance with their new C1 update yesterday.

I turned on TPC.
Watched an episode of Ozark (Season 2 Episode 1) on Netflix in Dolby Vision.

The C1 decided not to just dim the image, but also decided to remove actual F’in Colors from the dark scene. Skin tones went from natural looking to literally Black & White.

When that crap happened I let the scene play out. It went to a light environment. Something still looked off.

Pressed the settings button on remote & all them symbols were also dark. After waving the remote around for 10 seconds, the image slowly got brighter.



So here is my new hot take.

OLEDs are $hit with TPC Enable On.

So $hit, I’m leaving TPC off forever. Am gonna game 1,000’s of hours on this TV. If it gets IR or Burn In, in the trash it goes.

The difference of TPC On/Off is disgusting. Anyone who has that crap on is truly robbing themselves of creators intent, Picture quality.

I’d rather watch a CRT. lol

Last edited by Derb; 01-28-2022 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 01-28-2022, 12:28 PM   #5086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgpublic View Post
The 'new' news which you cite is dated 2014, and it's not new news to me, which is why I stated OLED manufacturers have been very successful over the past decade in managing organic degradation.

Regardless, OLED technology requires organic compounds which degrade when exposed to electric current. It's the 'O' in OLED, and it's not news, old or new, that matters, but facts.

You can call it whatever you like, but when you turn it off, the degradation of organic compounds is accelerated, and the degradation can not be measured by eyeballing your panel. Not at first, anyway. That's another fact.

But as I also stated, everyone is free to do as they please, it's their money, they own the set, and the consequences.

Turning off TPC accelerates the degradation of the OLED panel regardless of usage, so there's no question that it is relevant.
Then you must also know that LG hasnít put deuterium in any models prior to 2021 as well as know when deuterium is used the organic compounds studied lasted longer by a factor of 5.

I think people know All their OLEDs will perish in time. Itís in the name.

Iíll tell you this though, if TPC wasnít an option, Iíd happily switch over to LCD & never look back.
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Old 01-28-2022, 12:51 PM   #5087
cgpublic cgpublic is offline
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Originally Posted by Derb View Post
Then you must also know that LG hasnít put deuterium in any models prior to 2021 as well as know when deuterium is used the organic compounds studied lasted longer by a factor of 5.
Of course, which is why I posted the EX thread where LG was expanding the use of DuPont's deuterium blue material introduced with the Evo panel in place of the previously used hydrogen blue organic material for all OLED panels.

But that doesn't change the underlying nature of the technology, and as far as the claims, well, we'll see. Personally, I don't believe OLED will ever completely overcome power management concerns specific to brightness and usage patterns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derb View Post
Iíll tell you this though, if TPC wasnít an option, Iíd happily switch over to LCD & never look back.
To each their own, and I agree LCDs are a better choice for certain rooms/uses and user preferences.

Likewise, in spite of the risks, I could never go back to an LCD panel.
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Old 01-28-2022, 02:21 PM   #5088
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Of course, which is why I posted the EX thread where LG was expanding the use of DuPont's deuterium blue material introduced with the Evo panel in place of the previously used hydrogen blue organic material for all OLED panels.

But that doesn't change the underlying nature of the technology, and as far as the claims, well, we'll see. Personally, I don't believe OLED will ever completely overcome power management concerns specific to brightness and usage patterns.

To each their own, and I agree LCDs are a better choice for certain rooms/uses and user preferences.

Likewise, in spite of the risks, I could never go back to an LCD panel.
The nature of IR or burn-in on WBE Panels doesnít change unfortunately.
So my C1 with EVO & the ďnewĒ EX will still use the same WBE cell info.
LG will push the WBE Panels harder this year.

My C1 has the WBE Panel. So... I think Iím good by a factor of five.
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Old 01-28-2022, 03:50 PM   #5089
kuro_sawa kuro_sawa is offline
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Originally Posted by cgpublic View Post

Turning off TPC accelerates the degradation of the OLED panel regardless of usage, so there's no question that it is relevant.
After experiencing it on/off and experimenting quite a bit, I highly highly doubt the panel degradation is sped up by any meaningful margin in my own or most cases with TPC off. I mean for instance if you watch the news or sports for hours with it on - thereís a very slim chance it fully kicks in because of the tickers and commercials that only last 30 secs. This is what I mean by there being no real study or time measurement to what weíre specifically talking about, itís only these large generalizations about something thatís probably entirely usage dependent in regards to how long your TV will last. I think temporal luminance control is a good idea but the way its implemented now is broken if you think its adding months or years to the average lifespan of these TVs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgpublic View Post

Likewise, in spite of the risks, I could never go back to an LCD panel.
I would argue during certain scenes in certain content youíre getting a worse picture than LCD with TPC on!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derb View Post
So here is my new hot take.

OLEDs are $hit with TPC Enable On.

So $hit, Iím leaving TPC off forever. Am gonna game 1,000ís of hours on this TV. If it gets IR or Burn In, in the trash it goes.

The difference of TPC On/Off is disgusting. Anyone who has that crap on is truly robbing themselves of creators intent, Picture quality.

Iíd rather watch a CRT. lol

Maybe its a ďonce you notice itĒ thing, but it massacred about 70% of the discs I watched when I first got the C1. I went from Ďhuh never noticed that in this movie beforeí one week to Ďam I ****ing crazy?í the next to realizing it was the damn TV doing it. I never angry Googled so hard. Iíve turned into a total heel about it now and need to move on Just glad thereís some work around for us who want it.
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Old 01-28-2022, 05:38 PM   #5090
cgpublic cgpublic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuro_sawa View Post
After experiencing it on/off and experimenting quite a bit, I highly highly doubt the panel degradation is sped up by any meaningful margin in my own or most cases with TPC off. I mean for instance if you watch the news or sports for hours with it on - there’s a very slim chance it fully kicks in because of the tickers and commercials that only last 30 secs. This is what I mean by there being no real study or time measurement to what we’re specifically talking about, it’s only these large generalizations about something that’s probably entirely usage dependent in regards to how long your TV will last. I think temporal luminance control is a good idea but the way its implemented now is broken if you think its adding months or years to the average lifespan of these TVs.
But your set aside, it's not a generalization specific to the technology. Here's a handy guide.
  • Brighter + Longer = Greater Organic Degradation.
  • Greater Organic Degradation = Less Brightness + Less Lifespan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuro_sawa View Post
I would argue during certain scenes in certain content you’re getting a worse picture than LCD with TPC on!
Not on my C8, but then C8 highlights do not get as bright as the C1, so perhaps the TPC is not as aggressive. Or, my set is calibrated, so the image quality is superior and/or the ABL is not as impactful. Or, my panel is aces, and you ended up with a lemon.

The above are just a few of the variables from set to set. Organic degradation is universal to OLED technology, it's just a question of degrees for each viewer/set based on safeguards enabled/disabled and usage content and related patterns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuro_sawa View Post
Maybe its a “once you notice it” thing, but it massacred about 70% of the discs I watched when I first got the C1. I went from ‘huh never noticed that in this movie before’ one week to ‘am I ****ing crazy?’ the next to realizing it was the damn TV doing it. I never angry Googled so hard. I’ve turned into a total heel about it now and need to move on Just glad there’s some work around for us who want it.
Shame you disabled your TPC, otherwise you could have filed a warranty claim and/or pursued a refund. Now it's part of your panel's permanent record.

Kinda like the organic degradation when you think about it.
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Old 01-28-2022, 06:32 PM   #5091
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Itís like getting responses from a bot.
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Old 01-29-2022, 06:39 AM   #5092
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Itís like getting responses from a bot.
lol

The person has points & viewing conditions.

Anyway if he/she is happy with 7.9 million pixels light by all means enjoy. Iíll enjoy 8.3 mill as well as see the actual colour output of the C1.

4K/120hz & HDR + more gaming features than the PS5 actually supports at the moment.

However if I wanna watch a TV show in Dolby Vision, the C1 gets tripped up in LGís aggressive ASBL. TPC + Dark Content = High Risk of IR according to LG. My @ss.

Maybe if the TV did itís actual job, TPC would dim static HUDs nearly instantaneously while also recognizing when no image is static in films/shows.
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Old 01-31-2022, 05:29 PM   #5093
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Does anyone else use the Netflix button to turn their TV on? If I use the regular power button, it will turn on whatever is connected to whatever input was used last too. So either my Xbox, or blu-ray player, or whatever. I don’t always want those things to turn on, so I use the Netflix button as a power button. Anyone else?
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Old 01-31-2022, 05:46 PM   #5094
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Originally Posted by RustinCohle View Post
Does anyone else use the Netflix button to turn their TV on? If I use the regular power button, it will turn on whatever is connected to whatever input was used last too. So either my Xbox, or blu-ray player, or whatever. I donít always want those things to turn on, so I use the Netflix button as a power button. Anyone else?
There is a way in your settings to turn this off. I can't remember specifically where to go, but you need to turn off the HDMI Link settings to disable the TV from turning "On" or "Off" all of your devices that are connected to the TV.
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Old 01-31-2022, 11:30 PM   #5095
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There is a way in your settings to turn this off. I can't remember specifically where to go, but you need to turn off the HDMI Link settings to disable the TV from turning "On" or "Off" all of your devices that are connected to the TV.
Iíll see if I can find this, but itís probably a blanket setting for all inputs. Meaning my soundbar connected via HDMI 2 wouldnít automatically turn on, and I want it to. Iíll probably just have to stick to using Netflix as my power button. Iíve been doing it for years now with my C7.
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Old 02-01-2022, 12:51 AM   #5096
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Iíll see if I can find this, but itís probably a blanket setting for all inputs. Meaning my soundbar connected via HDMI 2 wouldnít automatically turn on, and I want it to. Iíll probably just have to stick to using Netflix as my power button. Iíve been doing it for years now with my C7.
I have Apple TV4K box in HDMI 2.

It doesnít matter if it is turned off. With Simplink HDMI-CEC turned off, the TV will power up & also turn on Apple TV4K. It never turns on my PS5 though because I think I have that setting disabled on my PS5.

I donít mind it going to Apple TV because it has a full screen - screen saver.

You could try turning off Simplink. Ya may have better results for your equipment.
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Old 02-01-2022, 01:30 AM   #5097
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I have Apple TV4K box in HDMI 2.

It doesnít matter if it is turned off. With Simplink HDMI-CEC turned off, the TV will power up & also turn on Apple TV4K. It never turns on my PS5 though because I think I have that setting disabled on my PS5.

I donít mind it going to Apple TV because it has a full screen - screen saver.

You could try turning off Simplink. Ya may have better results for your equipment.
I donít mind using the Netflix button to turn it on either. Iíve been doing it for years, and I use the onboard apps a lot. Just curious if anyone else turned their TV on this way. Doing it this way still turns on my soundbar, but wonít turn on anything else.
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Old 02-01-2022, 02:00 AM   #5098
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Originally Posted by RustinCohle View Post
Does anyone else use the Netflix button to turn their TV on? If I use the regular power button, it will turn on whatever is connected to whatever input was used last too. So either my Xbox, or blu-ray player, or whatever. I donít always want those things to turn on, so I use the Netflix button as a power button. Anyone else?
I haven't had the greatest experience with the HDMI cec crap either.

I went from logitech 1100 remote(old theater setup) to LG magic remote. The old way with one remote controlling all my equipment was something I was use to doing.

Since the LG magic remote is sooo damn cool, I had to give up the logitech.

I do miss the push one button to turn on/off the required equipment using the logitech. The HDMI CEC trying to manage more than 2 devices is too darn flaky and troublesome, but I prefer the magic remote ease of use.
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Old 02-01-2022, 07:18 AM   #5099
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustinCohle View Post
Does anyone else use the Netflix button to turn their TV on? If I use the regular power button, it will turn on whatever is connected to whatever input was used last too. So either my Xbox, or blu-ray player, or whatever. I donít always want those things to turn on, so I use the Netflix button as a power button. Anyone else?
I never did, i just use the power button and i never leave the TV on the console's input before i turn it off.
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Old 02-01-2022, 03:40 PM   #5100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustinCohle View Post
Does anyone else use the Netflix button to turn their TV on? If I use the regular power button, it will turn on whatever is connected to whatever input was used last too. So either my Xbox, or blu-ray player, or whatever. I donít always want those things to turn on, so I use the Netflix button as a power button. Anyone else?
This is an interesting workaround, I use to switch inputs before turning off my TV to avoid this. Now Iíve turned off the CEC link on all devices except my soundbar
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