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Old 01-09-2014, 05:04 AM   #2441
img eL img eL is offline
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Originally Posted by HotRats View Post
I hope a 4 layer disc does not repeat the debacle of a press demonstration of multi layer DVD from many years ago when a press audience witnessed discs with up to seven layers all failing to change. That was pretty much the end of multi-layer DVD
Nope 100GB 3 layer & 128GB 4 layer Blu ray Disc's have long since been proven to work great, even has been available for use to the public since 4Q 2010
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Old 01-09-2014, 07:17 AM   #2442
raygendreau raygendreau is offline
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Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
Well, there you go Ray, another tidbit of reassurance leaked to the press.

Though, lol, I’m so happy to learn that “Samsung had the technology in place to produce high-capacity four-layer Blu-ray disks for distributing 4K movies”.
The only useful bit of information from that article is:

"In the meantime, Samsung this year will offer 5 4K-format Hollywood movies and 3 4K documentaries to customers who buy new ultra-high definition TVs to be available in Australia from April-May this year.

By year's end, Samsung will have supplied customers with 20 4K movies and 30 documentaries provided on 3.5-inch hard drives."

This is Samsung's answer to Sony's "Hockey Puck" which is essentially a hard drive. Sony has over 140 Ultra HD selections available for downloadable rental or purchase with Captain Phillips and Hustle coming soon. It is possible that several hundred will be available by year end.

If no Ultra HD spec from the BDA by the end of 2014,streaming or downloading to a hard drive may be the only available option to acquire or view 4K content in the future.

Sony's Ultra HD short throw projector supports 3D (full HD) and will throw a 147" image with the unit placed only 7 inches from the wall. Full specifications here: http://www.sony.net/Products/4k-ultra-short-throw/

Last edited by raygendreau; 01-09-2014 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 01-09-2014, 11:16 AM   #2443
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Originally Posted by saprano View Post
My cousin had the one with the screen. I actually thought it was pretty cool. Pointless, but cool.

Oh, found out the dell 4K monitor only does 30hz-

http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/8/528...w-start-at-699
Would you consider an all-in-one if it had 4k screen?
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Old 01-09-2014, 01:32 PM   #2444
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Originally Posted by saprano View Post
this uses a TN panel (the worst panel type for image quality and viewing angles) (quotes of it using an IPS were only rumors) and only supports 30hz for 4K.

It's a money grab.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasoneva...-its-only-699/
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Old 01-09-2014, 06:27 PM   #2445
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Originally Posted by saprano View Post
Oh, found out the dell 4K monitor only does 30hz-
http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/8/528...w-start-at-699
Bummer.

Well this should put a smile on your face and a spring in your step….at least temporarily. Off the top of my head, 4 out of the 7 ASC nominees (https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=12950) were shot primarily on film!
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Old 01-09-2014, 06:34 PM   #2446
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Originally Posted by raygendreau View Post
The only useful bit of information from that article is:

It depends on what you were looking for. I think it’s useful for consumers to note that a Vice President from one of the member companies on the Board of Directors of the BDA has gone on public record to promise a 4K Blu-ray format by the end of the year.

Reasonable 4K physical media/streaming agnostic people, knowing the difficulty in timeframe forecasts would probably understand if, turns out, his estimation as to ‘when’ is off, but, at the very least, I do think it adds more *executive credence* to the notion that 4K Blu-ray is coming…sometime….,rather than never, which was believed by you (and/or others?) as recently as several months ago. I mean didn't you or someone else say on this thread several weeks ago that consumers would get no 4K Blu-ray, period?

Ray, you’re killin me.

Do I need to post another corroboration, as to a target date, that’s come out? Give me a minute and let me see if it’s been published online yet.
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Old 01-09-2014, 06:39 PM   #2447
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Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
...Do I need to post another corroboration, as to a target date, that’s come out? Give me a minute and let me see if it’s been published online yet.
scroll down to committee chair Victor at the bottom of the piece -
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/beh...d-train-669587

Now, let me get back to HDR.
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Old 01-09-2014, 06:49 PM   #2448
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Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
HDR
Following up from the last page.

The great value of HDR for imagery comes as no surprise to colorists who have worked with Dolby’s LCD reference color grading monitor, the PRM 4200 or 4220, which some post houses use in their mastering and whose colorists have ever experimented with Dolby’s HDR ACES output display transform to allow movie content to be viewed in HDR and P3 color space while in the DYN operational mode (maximum luminance of 600 nits).

Then, afterwards, when flipping back to traditional non-HDR mode, it’s amazing how much RAW imagery (be it from the Alexa, RED, Sony--whatever high end camera be your acquisition device) is clipped at 100 nits.

Attention consumer electronics marketing executives:
HDR is a far, far easier sell to the consumer than is ‘4K’, for it makes a larger difference in picture quality than does just ‘4K’...or 1080p OLED and observers can get the impact at any viewing distance in the showroom in side-to-side comparisons.

Last edited by Penton-Man; 01-09-2014 at 06:52 PM. Reason: added a phrase
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:10 PM   #2449
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I agree Penton, lots of stuff out there that would be far more intriguing and obvious than 4K, which to me is a buzz number like 240Hz and all that crap was.

I had a chance to go and visit Brightside in Vancouver Canada years ago before Dolby bought them out and took over their HDR work. I saw the early prototypes of Dolby's HDR LCD display and the difference HDR and near infinite contrast does to a display is amazing.
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:24 PM   #2450
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Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
More negative waves - YouTube

It depends on what you were looking for. I think it’s useful for consumers to note that a Vice President from one of the member companies on the Board of Directors of the BDA has gone on public record to promise a 4K Blu-ray format by the end of the year.

Reasonable 4K physical media/streaming agnostic people, knowing the difficulty in timeframe forecasts would probably understand if, turns out, his estimation as to ‘when’ is off, but, at the very least, I do think it adds more *executive credence* to the notion that 4K Blu-ray is coming…sometime….,rather than never, which was believed by you (and/or others?) as recently as several months ago. I mean didn't you or someone else say on this thread several weeks ago that consumers would get no 4K Blu-ray, period?

Ray, you’re killin me.

Do I need to post another corroboration, as to a target date, that’s come out? Give me a minute and let me see if it’s been published online yet.
Actually physical 4K seems even more unlikely now than it did several months ago. Seems the BDA is still "exploring", just as they were at this time last year. They are talking about physical disk, but the same companies are working on and delivering Ultra HD downloads now and soon streaming.

The headline of the article in THR is instructive: "DECE, the consortium behind UltraViolet, is looking at 4K, as well as high dynamic range, wider color space and higher frame rates." This could be the beginning of a framework for the studios to deliver content to all 4K TV's, with cloud storage of Ultraviolet copies in SD to Ultra HD resolution. I think the BDA will proceed at a snail's pace until the digital business model succeeds or fails.
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Old 01-09-2014, 10:01 PM   #2451
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
I agree Penton, lots of stuff out there that would be far more intriguing and obvious than 4K, which to me is a buzz number like 240Hz and all that crap was.

I had a chance to go and visit Brightside in Vancouver Canada years ago before Dolby bought them out and took over their HDR work. I saw the early prototypes of Dolby's HDR LCD display and the difference HDR and near infinite contrast does to a display is amazing.
Well, I don’t mean to be totally dismissive of the ‘4K’ movement because for one, I am a 4K advocate and secondly, I understand that consumer electronics companies live for/depend upon year-to-year sales to make everything work on their end and honestly, no fault to marketing folk……for engineers, 4K has been the far easier to build and bring to market than the other enhancements (WCG, HDR, HFR) which I’ve elaborated upon in past pages.

The BIG plan has always been to sell 4K and then augment it with enhancements as they became available. Well, at least in regards to HDR, they’re becoming available faster than expected and I hope that individual stakeholders embrace them as soon as possible so the next generation video movement (UHD) doesn’t stall unnecessarily with basic 4K.

I see the consumer 4K launch to be like when I was a young single man and my friends would date a vivacious, flirtatious girl making occasional sexual innuendos, date after date. That’s hot and nothing wrong with that but, comes a day when it all becomes stale and it’s time to *seal the deal* with something other than words.

HDR is like getting on base.
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Old 01-09-2014, 10:06 PM   #2452
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Originally Posted by raygendreau View Post
Actually physical 4K seems even more unlikely now than it did several months ago. Seems the BDA is still "exploring", just as they were at this time last year.
No, last year the task force was tasked to determine if 4K Blu-ray was even just feasible. Recently, the Board of Directors approved of the feasibility of 4K BD (as a marketable product) and a task force has been working to determine the best spec.

There has been progress.

Think of it this way. The FDA appoints an advisory committee to decide whether or not a certain drug is worthwhile to bring to market in the U.S. The first year, the committee decides that, yes, it is well worthwhile. The next task of the advisory committee then the following year is to determine the particulars of the drug insert, i.e. Indications, Usage, Contraindications, Warnings, Precautions, etc......all at a time when these very particulars are undergoing changes in definition.
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Old 01-10-2014, 01:20 AM   #2453
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Originally Posted by Steedeel View Post
Would you consider an all-in-one if it had 4k screen?
Nah. I don't like all in ones. I like choosing the cheapest most powerful base and adding what I need from there.

I'm sure there will plenty other 4K monitors coming out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
Bummer.

Well this should put a smile on your face and a spring in your step….at least temporarily. Off the top of my head, 4 out of the 7 ASC nominees (https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=12950) were shot primarily on film!
Nice.
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Old 01-10-2014, 10:03 AM   #2454
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I know what you mean Saprano. However, I am a neatness freak and have an imac. It looks slick on a black desk lol. My Dell is in my spare room and looks ancient in comparison. When I bought it I thought it looked slick. Of course, the most important thing is the performance. When I do any image editing, photo retouching etc I turn to the imac and if I do any regular stuff like typing and spreadsheets I turn to the Dell. My thinking for the all in one was if dell looks great and does all the performance stuff, I may go the MacBook Pro route to replace the Imac as it is also several years old now.

I can't wait to mess about with 4k images.
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Old 01-10-2014, 12:47 PM   #2455
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Default Fox Dun on 4K Blu-Ray and Ultraviolet

http://www.engadget.com/video/5min/518080245
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:35 PM   #2456
Kris Deering Kris Deering is offline
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Not sure I'm a fan of what Dunn is talking about there. A simple extension of Blu-ray to 66GB discs wouldn't be enough for the type of change I'd like to see with UHD. Sounds like a simple resolution bump. He also makes it sound like it could be a metadata thing where extra info is copied to a drive and added to the presentation. This could be interpretted in different ways but I dread the thought of doing something like Sony is with their "mastered in 4K" releases.
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Old 01-10-2014, 04:13 PM   #2457
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Not sure I'm a fan of what Dunn is talking about there. A simple extension of Blu-ray to 66GB discs wouldn't be enough for the type of change I'd like to see with UHD. Sounds like a simple resolution bump. He also makes it sound like it could be a metadata thing where extra info is copied to a drive and added to the presentation. This could be interpretted in different ways but I dread the thought of doing something like Sony is with their "mastered in 4K" releases.
66GB suggests a two-layer disc with BDXL pit density.

Something I have said for a long time is that 3 and 4 layer discs are very difficult and expensive to replicate....perhaps this is one idea that is being thrown around behind closed doors.
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Old 01-10-2014, 06:06 PM   #2458
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
I agree Penton, lots of stuff out there that would be far more intriguing and obvious than 4K, which to me is a buzz number like 240Hz and all that crap was.

I had a chance to go and visit Brightside in Vancouver Canada years ago before Dolby bought them out and took over their HDR work. I saw the early prototypes of Dolby's HDR LCD display and the difference HDR and near infinite contrast does to a display is amazing.
Kris, in my haste to respond I forgot to welcome you back as I haven’t seen you around for a long time. Still going underwater on long tours? I sincerely hope you and your colleagues are being sensitive and kind to dem whales for I love those creatures almost as much as I love dem dogs - http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/girl...rgery-21456041

Anyway, yes, several months ago we briefly touched on the pedigree from which Dolby HDR originated, namely Brightside’s DP37 display but, we never really noted the mind behind the idea (and fellow bicycle enthusiast-doctor(Ph.D. to boot!) who should be acknowledged, namely….

Professor Lorne Whitehead (http://www.phas.ubc.ca/~whitehed/whitehead.html) and his then-at-the-time research assistant Helge (http://www.sid.org/About/LeadershipG...eetzenBio.aspx )

Good story for aspiring entrepreneurs….http://www.exits.com/blog/case-study...ightside-exit/

Last edited by Penton-Man; 01-11-2014 at 07:27 PM. Reason: added 3 letters for clarity
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Old 01-10-2014, 06:11 PM   #2459
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Originally Posted by saprano View Post
Nice.
Although I think not mentioned in the article, ‘Jack Ryan’ consists of about an 80/20 film to digital mix, here’s your filmic part to savor in Kodak print…http://motion.kodak.com/motion/Publi...c_Approach.htm
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Old 01-10-2014, 06:36 PM   #2460
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Originally Posted by Towergrove View Post
Sorry Sarah, as to 4K BD....no comment….other than to say that different proposals (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...al#post8575874) are not uncommon in the evaluation process of any standards organization.

As to bit rates for streaming 4K, in fairness to all forms of 4K delivery, I think Mike should have one of his V.P.’s enlighten him as to what Netflix has in mind.
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