So Boutique Labels Make Their Own Blu-ray Discs?

[D100200]

If not then where do they get them made?

I believe Vinegar Syndrome and their partner labels has there’s made through OCN Distribution. But looking into it, it almost seems like a parent company to all of them.

I Googled and have looked into some of the first places that pop up like Replicopy and Disc Makers. But I’m not sure if any boutique uses them since oddly enough most don’t list testimonials or anything for labels they’ve done.

[apollo828]

No, they don't press their discs. I believe there are only a very small handful of actual BD pressing plants around the world at this point. I believe both of the companies you cited just burn their media, not press it.

As for where they go, you'll have to ask them. I don't have an up-to-date list of pressing plants. I believe the one in Indiana just closed, leaving a plant in Mexico and one in Europe that's being scaled back. I think that's it???

[David M]

There are several replicators worldwide: Sony DADC Austria, Technicolor Poland, Technicolor Mexico (Guadalajara), Sonopress Germany, some in Taiwan as well I think.

No, labels don't own their own replication facilities.

[D100200]

Originally Posted by David M

There are several replicators worldwide: Sony DADC Austria, Technicolor Poland, Technicolor Mexico (Guadalajara), Sonopress Germany, some in Taiwan as well I think.

No, labels don't own their own replication facilities.

I’m curious then how places like Replicopy and Disc Makers can say they make pressed/stamped discs. I don’t think you’re wrong or they’re lying but there’s just something I’m not understanding.

Here’s what I’m thinking it is and please tell me what I’m misunderstandings and where I’m wrong.

*Only a few plants in the world press Blu-ray discs.
*Both Technicolor (an actual plant) and smaller companies like Replicopy offer pressed/stamped discs as a product for boutique labels.
*Technicolor does not advertise a dollar amount they will do this for. Replicopy does. My guess is Technicolor deals in bulk servicing major clients.
*Replicopy and the like are among these clients hence why they offer pressed/stamped discs as a product.
*Replicopy and similar companies do not do this directly, but have Technicolor or a similar plant do this for them so Replicopy are a middle man.
*Bigger boutique labels probably avoid this middle man altogether and just deal with Technicolor or one of the other major plants directly.
*Pressed and stamped are the same thing just different words for this replication process after the master is made.
*Burned discs are of course different and inferior.
*Burning is called Blu-ray duplication rather than replication.
*Lower quality boutique labels burn their discs.

Sorry for the lengthy reply. Like I said I’m confused yet interested

[apollo828]

Hmmm. I goofed and was looking at duplication, which is Replicopy's term for burning discs. They can press (i.e., replicate) discs too, or so the site says. The site may be out-of-date, though. It looks like the last news update is from 2017. I do know that Replicopy's office in town is still listed as being open on Google. It seems to be open based on some Google Maps photos. But, it could be that they can only press CDs and/or DVDs. Somebody would have to inquire with them.

As for whether boutiques are using them, again, you'll have to inquire with the labels. I know quite a few pressings sold in the States are pressed in Mexico. I don't know if it's a volume thing or if it's done out of sheer necessity. It may be possible that there are some more places that can press single-layer discs but not dual-layer discs or 4K Blus. I'm pretty sure dual-layer discs (BD50 or BD66) are limited to a few plants (David M's, and I'm not sure about any others), and I seem to recall reading on this site that only 2-3 plants are confirmed to be capable of pressing BD100s.

[David M]

Originally Posted by D100200

I’m curious then how places like Replicopy and Disc Makers can say they make pressed/stamped discs.

They'll either own their own replication facility/equipment, or send replication jobs to one of the established replicators.

You can read the mastering SID code from the bottom of the disc (will usually need some kind of magnification and strong light to see as its very small, starts with IFPI) and Google it to get an idea of where it was replicated. For example IFPI LZ13 = Technicolor (now Vantiva) Poland.

[David M]

I'm pretty sure dual-layer discs (BD50 or BD66) are limited to a few plants

I doubt that's the case anymore. Anyone who's invested in BD replication will not limit themselves to BD25.

UHD is more niche.

BTW, we're not a replicator. We're an authoring facility, the step before replication.

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by David M

I doubt that's the case anymore. Anyone who's invested in BD replication will not limit themselves to BD25.

UHD is more niche.

BTW, we're not a replicator. We're an authoring facility, the step before replication.

Ahhh, sorry, when I said "your" plants, I meant plants you mentioned. I didn't intend to imply that you work for or own any plants.

Anyway, I'm not so sure about the BD50 thing. Both examples cited by the OP (Replicopy and Disc Makers) both explicitly state that they only support BD25 pressing. If they handle BD50, either I can't see it or you have to call/email and ask for more info. Perhaps there are some smaller plants that can handle BD50; I'm definitely not aware of every pressing plant out there! I'm just saying I'm not aware of any such plants. My immediate thought was that BD50 equipment is just too pricey for them, or otherwise not made available. But, I'm speculating.

That said, I definitely agree that UHD options are limited. The closest I've come to any sort of anomaly was the Django Scandinavian 4K Blu. As best I can tell, it was authored as a UHD disc but burned to a DL BD-R, along with an AACSv1 key, as if it was pressed. A very unusual disc, especially since I had never encountered a BD-R that used proper AACS keys! (I think some use a special form of AACS with "null keys" but that's it.)

[David M]

That said, I definitely agree that UHD options are limited. The closest I've come to any sort of anomaly was the Django Scandinavian 4K Blu. As best I can tell, it was authored as a UHD disc but burned to a DL BD-R, along with an AACSv1 key, as if it was pressed. A very unusual disc, especially since I had never encountered a BD-R that used proper AACS keys! (I think some use a special form of AACS with "null keys" but that's it.)

Really, it's a BD-R? Do you have a link to it on a store? I'd like to check that out.

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by David M

Really, it's a BD-R? Do you have a link to it on a store? I'd like to check that out.

No store link handy - some links were discussed here when the disc came out - but it's this disc. I do have a copy in a box somewhere. (It's even one of the copies that was burned properly! Quite a few were bad.) If you really want a copy, I'm sure we can work something out.

[David M]

I'm sort of surprised to hear this, because unless there's a workaround, some players (Panasonic) will not play UHD BD projects burned onto "classic" BD media properly. They stutter and skip whenever the bitrate goes above "classic" BD levels, since that media was never designed to move 100+mbps.

Oh, and the PS5 likely won't play it at all?

[LexInHD]

Originally Posted by David M

I'm sort of surprised to hear this, because unless there's a workaround, some players (Panasonic) will not play UHD BD projects burned onto "classic" BD media properly. They stutter and skip whenever the bitrate goes above "classic" BD levels, since that media was never designed to move 100+mbps.

It's around 60Mbps, so it's fine.

[LexInHD]

Originally Posted by apollo828

Ahhh, sorry, when I said "your" plants, I meant plants you mentioned. I didn't intend to imply that you work for or own any plants.

Anyway, I'm not so sure about the BD50 thing. Both examples cited by the OP (Replicopy and Disc Makers) both explicitly state that they only support BD25 pressing. If they handle BD50, either I can't see it or you have to call/email and ask for more info. Perhaps there are some smaller plants that can handle BD50; I'm definitely not aware of every pressing plant out there! I'm just saying I'm not aware of any such plants. My immediate thought was that BD50 equipment is just too pricey for them, or otherwise not made available. But, I'm speculating.

That said, I definitely agree that UHD options are limited. The closest I've come to any sort of anomaly was the Django Scandinavian 4K Blu. As best I can tell, it was authored as a UHD disc but burned to a DL BD-R, along with an AACSv1 key, as if it was pressed. A very unusual disc, especially since I had never encountered a BD-R that used proper AACS keys! (I think some use a special form of AACS with "null keys" but that's it.)

They both offer BD-50, but it's a special order service. From what I can see, they outsource all the replication orders to someone outside Murica, likely Technicolor in Mexico. Very few media outfits in Murica still have any optical disc replication equipment and it's almost entirely limited to the occasional CD or DVD line, with most of the business having switched to only offering CD-R/BD-R or outsourcing disc replication to one of the few remaining players or both, as the case sometimes is.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by David M

I'm sort of surprised to hear this, because unless there's a workaround, some players (Panasonic) will not play UHD BD projects burned onto "classic" BD media properly. They stutter and skip whenever the bitrate goes above "classic" BD levels, since that media was never designed to move 100+mbps.

Oh, and the PS5 likely won't play it at all?

But isn’t UHD50 part of the UHD spec, albeit limited to low/default transfer rates? Or is the writable media part the specific problem, being another charming Pannysonic ‘quirk’ that it thinks there’s no need to engage further decoding when it plays a BD-R?

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But isn’t UHD50 part of the UHD spec, albeit limited to low/default transfer rates? Or is the writable media part the specific problem, being another charming Pannysonic ‘quirk’ that it thinks there’s no need to engage further decoding when it plays a BD-R?

That's my understanding re: UHD50. Damned if I know what those specs are, though. I did go looking for them at one point. Maybe my Google-fu isn't what it used to be but I couldn't find anything definitive. As for how players handle UHD50-compliant BD-Rs, no clue! I wouldn't be surprised if some players get tripped up by some obscure spec quirk that isn't implemented properly, and/or the players just don't like certain BD-R brands, and/or some firmware devs are pumping out garbage.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by apollo828

That's my understanding re: UHD50. Damned if I know what those specs are, though. I did go looking for them at one point. Maybe my Google-fu isn't what it used to be but I couldn't find anything definitive. As for how players handle UHD50-compliant BD-Rs, no clue! I wouldn't be surprised if some players get tripped up by some obscure spec quirk that isn't implemented properly, and/or the players just don't like certain BD-R brands, and/or some firmware devs are pumping out garbage.

This is what the spec sez:



Edit: The thing with burning an encode to a BD-R is that if you’re encoding for the UHD66/100 HTR spec - as I’m assuming David would be doing - then that would exceed the stated bitrate maximums for UHD50 discs, hence the skipping. But he mentions only some brands having trouble which would point to others being fine with it, so that might not be why.

[Warm Gun]

Guessing video games are printed at different facilities, since I never hear gamers complain about scratched, smudged discs and damaged packages. Never back when I still purchased them did I have the problems I have with movies. Maybe gamers are just a scarier bunch.

[apollo828]

Eh. A lot of them are probably playing downloads. That and I think only the PS5 uses BD66/BD100 discs. Games are also different for a couple of reasons.

- There is (or maybe was?) a fair amount of redundancy in the data. This is/was meant to speed up access times when loading levels and such. I'd imagine it's possible to access redundant data further out, just at the cost of slightly longer access times.
- My understanding is that most (all?) modern games are glorified access keys. Install from the disc, and then insert the disc only so that the system knows to proceed with playing the game from the HD/SSD.

That said, if I was a gamer, I'd take a peek at the packaging and make a note to confirm where they're being printed. Who knows, maybe all the discs are pressed in Europe these days!

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by apollo828

- There is (or maybe was?) a fair amount of redundancy in the data. This is/was meant to speed up access times when loading levels and such. I'd imagine it's possible to access redundant data further out, just at the cost of slightly longer access times.

all games are saved to SSD and played from there so there is no more need to duplicate date

- My understanding is that most (all?) modern games are glorified access keys. Install from the disc, and then insert the disc only so that the system knows to proceed with playing the game from the HD/SSD.

yes but it is still installed to SSD from the disk so it needs to be good. That being said many games ask for updates on install so it makes for a more complicated discussion ( damaged data on disk gets written to SSD during update it gets over written with good data so you don't notice it was bad to begin with)

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

all games are saved to SSD and played from there so there is no more need to duplicate date

Right. I'd imagine it's not used anymore but, as mentioned, I'm not a gamer. I haven't kept up on how all the data gets laid out on a disc.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

yes but it is still installed to SSD from the disk so it needs to be good. That being said many games ask for updates on install so it makes for a more complicated discussion ( damaged data on disk gets written to SSD during update it gets over written with good data so you don't notice it was bad to begin with)

Right. There are tricks for dealing with damaged disc data. Between Day 1 patches (or Day X depending on how long the game's been sitting on the shelf), the possibility of marking files as damaged and in need of remote patching (I don't know if this is used but error correction results should make this feasible on consoles, thanks to full firmware control), and similar tools, it's easy to imagine game labels being able to cover up bad discs more than movie labels.