The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (1966) (50th Anniversary Edition)

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Poya

Prints? I hope it's the IB Tech prints.

Just to clarify, since you seem confused (on here, and your post at HTF). They're not referencing any prints currently. MisterLime and company are making these changes completely off memory, based on how they recall seeing the print screened at theaters

[AlexIlDottore]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Just to clarify, since you seem confused (on here, and your post at HTF). They're not referencing any prints currently. MisterLime and company are making these changes completely off memory, based on how they recall seeing the print screened at theaters

I never thought such a scenario would be possible. It's laughable. Gotta love how Mister Lime has mentioned already that some people will still have complaints regarding the colour and some will just be negative.

These guys are using their memory for regrading and they have the gall to post such comments Again, impossible to imagine and completely ridiculous.

[yellowcakeuf6]

I appreciate the idea of wanting to get closer to the original look, but they have to know that is not how you do it.

[baheidstu]

They should just leave it the way it is and release the theatrical cut with the yellow. Any more tinkering, no matter how good it may end up looking, will just engender more discord. Reading threads related to this film give me a big enough headache as it is.

[MassiveMovieBuff]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

They should just leave it the way it is and release the theatrical cut with the yellow. Any more tinkering, no matter how good it may end up looking, will just engender more discord. Reading threads related to this film give me a big enough headache as it is.

Yeah the "gold" tint as I like to call it didn't bother me at all and felt that it suited the film greatly. I'm definitely in a minority on that though AFAIK.

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

They should just leave it the way it is and release the theatrical cut with the yellow.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

They should just leave it the way it is and release the theatrical cut with the yellow. Any more tinkering, no matter how good it may end up looking, will just engender more discord. Reading threads related to this film give me a big enough headache as it is.

To be perfectly honest, the master has been Ritrovita'd to such a degree there's only so much that can be done with it, especially the ludicrously thin blacks. Whether Kino are using a reference source or not I don't really care as they're chasing something that simply can't be pulled from that master, ditto for the Capelight BD of Assault on Precinct 13. People wax lyrical about how super-duper the colour is but underneath it's still the same intensely yellow master first seen on the Image release, only with worse compression.

Speaking of which: what I am bothered about is Kino's less than stellar compression, I mean its okay but rarely great and with something as grainy as this - along with that ugly RGB noise seen on the MGM version - then it might take a bit of a forums battering on that front alone. I will buy it for the theatrical cut and I will love it for that (along with lossless mono, could someone please ask MisterLime if that's the case?) but I won't turn a blind eye to any shortcomings. But nor will I present my assessment as if the world has come to an end, if people want to read that into it then that's fine, go for it.

[al cos.]

My memory is vague on this, but are there new, (similarly yellowish) Italian restorations of the other 2 film that just haven't made their way to blu-ray yet?

[AlexIlDottore]

I politely asked about this in the Kino thread. Well it looks like MisterLime is just ignoring any question regarding prints and references.

[grim_tales]

Originally Posted by eurospec19

There you have it. KL is not using an IB TECH print any other source as a color reference.

MisterLime says:

"One of the main reasons we acquired THE GOOD, THE BAD & THE UGLY was to FINALLY release the beloved theatrical cut. Many of the older fans who grew up watching the original disliked and even hated the extended cut, not just because it almost ruins the masterpiece, but also because it had completely replaced the original.

We had no idea the 4K restoration had some complaints due to the overall yellowishness of the master. We decided to do our own tests and agreed that it was a bit too yellow, so we did some minor color correction to create a version we feel is closest to the prints we had all seen screened many times and we don't agree with fans who think we should've gone further to create the look of the old releases, which we felt were too blue. What we'll be releasing will be the essential Blu-ray release of the classic, it will include both cuts, include all the previously produced extras and some very cool new ones. Will everyone be 100% happy with the transfer? We hope so, but realistically we doubt it, we think most of the fans will be very happy, some may still have issues with the color, and others will just post negative comments just to get a reaction because that's what they do."

So KL are calling some people who will have issues with the transfer trolls? Nice
At least they're trying to get closer to the original look but basing it on "memories" seems daft imo. If they think the older BD/DVD is too blue, I assume theyre looking for a middle ground.

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

Way to completely miss the point of what I was saying.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

To be perfectly honest, the master has been Ritrovita'd to such a degree there's only so much that can be done with it, especially the ludicrously thin blacks. Whether Kino are using a reference source or not I don't really care as they're chasing something that simply can't be pulled from that master, ditto for the Capelight BD of Assault on Precinct 13. People wax lyrical about how super-duper the colour is but underneath it's still the same intensely yellow master first seen on the Image release, only with worse compression.

Speaking of which: what I am bothered about is Kino's less than stellar compression, I mean its okay but rarely great and with something as grainy as this - along with that ugly RGB noise seen on the MGM version - then it might take a bit of a forums battering on that front alone. I will buy it for the theatrical cut and I will love it for that (along with lossless mono, could someone please ask MisterLime if that's the case?) but I won't turn a blind eye to any shortcomings. But nor will I present my assessment as if the world has come to an end, if people want to read that into it then that's fine, go for it.

There's no way someone coming along after the fact tinkering with the colours is EVER going to please everyone. So instead of people bickering endlessly about this bloody yellow colour timing, we'll have people bickering about that AND whatever "incorrect" colour timing has been applied to the Kino release, not to mention any other issues that might arise with regards to picture quality, etc. as a result of what Kino are doing.

[grim_tales]

KL are right in that they're never going to please everyone, but they could have said "We have done/are trying our best and we hope fans will be happy", I admire honesty ("Will everyone be happy? We doubt it") but saying "Some people will complain because it's what they do" sounds disingenuous and rude

[Ray_Rogers]

Wish Kino wasn't releasing this but MGM theirselves. Also on UHD with seamless branching BD100 with both cuts and corrected color. Of course the OG mono being lossless on both the UHD and BDs.

[grim_tales]

When they say they're basing the colour grading on "memory/how it played in theatres", how far are they going back? The film would have looked different in theatres in the 60's/70's as opposed to today (right?), and surely we need more than recollections if they mean vintage screenings, don't we?

[AlexIlDottore]

Everybody politely ask MisterLime. Maybe if enough of us ask, he'll be polite enough to answer. As it is, I can't believe that they are guesstimating Only yesterday, I mentioned that to be completely ludicrous, and now it's been confirmed.

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by AlexIlDottore

Everybody politely ask MisterLime. Maybe if enough of us ask, he'll be polite enough to answer. As it is, I can't believe that they are guesstimating Only yesterday, I mentioned that to be completely ludicrous, and now it's been confirmed.

Can you seriously just chill out? You've mentioned it on the thread. Leave it at that. Barraging him with multiple posts about it is NOT going to foster anything remotely close to a positive response.

[JohnCarpenterFan]

The lack of tangible references doesn't surprise me at all. According to insiders/restoration experts, when creating older masters, companies wouldn't even use prints for reference and would just time films to look "natural" even if they were on the magenta side. While more and more companies now use reference prints, it seems that some other companies (usually smaller ones) are still guesstimating or color timing based on their own preferences.

Example of how different something can look with use of a reference print:

[Show spoiler]Early Warner Bros. DVD of McCabe and Mrs. Miller:



Criterion Blu-ray of McCabe and Mrs. Miller which was color-matched to a reference print:

A release print isn't even the best indicator of how a film should look but it's a hell of a lot better than nothing, and if Kino are ignoring those who are willing to help them out, then shame on them.

[AlexIlDottore]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

Can you seriously just chill out? You've mentioned it on the thread. Leave it at that. Barraging him with multiple posts about it is NOT going to foster anything remotely close to a positive response.

Yeah, that's what people said when we complained about the first release of Scream Factory's Black Christmas and politely wrote to them. They issued a corrected V2 disc with better original mono

[Poya]

Like I said: I asked them politely about this, my comment got deleted. Their ego is unbearable. Also, the extended cut doesn't ruin the film. It's the closest to Leone's vision possible. Could they have gotten really good Eastwood and Wallach impersonators instead of using their aged voices and have gotten a better Cleef impersonator? Sure. Could they restore the extended Tuco beating? Sure. Could they remove the grotto scene? Sure. But you know what? It's still The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly. I'll wait for the eventual UHD release and skip this.

[JohnCarpenterFan]

Originally Posted by Poya

Like I said: I asked them politely about this, my comment got deleted. Their ego is unbearable. Also, the extended cut doesn't ruin the film. It's the closest to Leone's vision possible. Could they have gotten really good Eastwood and Wallach impersonators instead of using their aged voices and have gotten a better Cleef impersonator? Sure. Could they restore the extended Tuco beating? Sure. Could they remove the grotto scene? Sure. But you know what? It's still The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly. I'll wait for the eventual UHD release and skip this.

There are a few different ways of including the Italian theatrical version on an English-friendly Blu-ray:

Italian audio with English subs (worst-case)
English audio with the newish audio for the Italian-exclusive scenes
English/Italian hybrid with subtitles for Italian scenes (for those that hate the redubbed voices)

The Italian theatrical version (also known as the director's cut) is the happy medium as it lacks the grotto scene and has some interesting character scenes and violence not seen in the export cut which was released in US theaters.