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Old 01-31-2015, 04:47 PM   #1
krinkle krinkle is offline
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Default Who has been here since the format war, and are you surprised by how heated it got?

I remember friends of many years over on another AV forum who quit talking over the format war.

There were also the "lost cause" or "Baghdad bob" types who kept insisting HD-DVD would win, even after Universal announced support?

What are your best and worst memories of the format war period?
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Old 01-31-2015, 05:29 PM   #2
Blu-Dog Blu-Dog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krinkle View Post
I remember friends of many years over on another AV forum who quit talking over the format war.

There were also the "lost cause" or "Baghdad bob" types who kept insisting HD-DVD would win, even after Universal announced support?

What are your best and worst memories of the format war period?
I've been here from the beginning of the Format Wars, and the worst memories were watching Toshiba pay flat-out bribes to studios to get them to go HD-DVD. It was absolutely pitiful to see; I knew the studios were just playing along to get the cash, and so did everyone else. Sony already owned a studio. Toshiba couldn't buy anyone in installments.


Some of the best memories are also the worst. As studios dropped out of HD-DVD, or half-heartedly "renewed their commitment" to both formats, or offered crazy support for dual format players (vaporware of a particularly pungent kind), the HD-DVD faithful did the same thing I saw three years later with 3-D:

  • Insult the companies that didn't go their way as greedy
  • Insult the companies that didn't go their way as stupid
  • Insult the user base that didn't make the same choice they did as both greedy and stupid.
  • Predict that one way or another, HD-DVD was "here to stay"
  • Set up an "in or out" clubhouse for HD-DVD, and if you didn't belong, any member could shout "HD-DVD is here to stay!" and order others out of the clubhouse, as a troll
  • Start the "show me your papers" tradition, asking how many HD-DVD's did you pick up this week/this month (not "if you" but "how many")
  • Equated "support" with "vote with your money"
Yet the format died, for many reasons, primarily that is simply offered less storage. It was so obvious.


4K really has to have plenty of storage to make it, and it needn't be expensive, either. The Format War, along with the 3-D Fizzle, are cautionary tales about trying to base a complete change on the support of unrealistic fanatics to support technology. It has to be simple, obvious, and not require a complete reboot of all technology in the home.


I am not sure if this will occur...
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Old 01-31-2015, 05:40 PM   #3
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Old 01-31-2015, 05:44 PM   #4
Johnny Vinyl Johnny Vinyl is offline
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I was around during those days, but the only thing that concerned me was not losing out on yet another format war. I lost the Beta/VHS war by supporting Sony and didn't want a repeat.
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Old 02-01-2015, 06:41 PM   #5
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu-Dog View Post
I've been here from the beginning of the Format Wars, and the worst memories were watching Toshiba pay flat-out bribes to studios to get them to go HD-DVD.
Yeah -- anyone else remember Toshiba placing an ad buy on AICN, soon followed by by Mr. Knowles declaring HD-DVD to be the future winner of the format battle?

What made me go HD DVD? The kicker is... that it can play the 9000 or so DVDs I already have, as well as the HD DVDs. That Backwards compatibility feels right. Also - from the demonstrations I've seen, HD DVD looks better than the BLUE RAY discs. I also love that the player has an upconversion that raises the quality of my existing DVD library to 720p and sometimes 1080i. I've already tested it out and DVDs that I watched last time I watched them - look better than they had before. I also have a habit of picking the winning formats. I could be wrong this time, but most of my filmmaker friends, in fact all of them that I have had a conversation regarding this with... have told me... HD DVD is the format to go with.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/32838

Last edited by Ernest Rister; 02-01-2015 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 02-01-2015, 07:03 PM   #6
the fly the fly is offline
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Fortunately I was smart enough or patient enough to hold out until the format war was over. I knew that one was going to emerge as the winner eventually. As others have stated, I remember Betamax vs VHS along with LaserDisc.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the fly View Post
Fortunately I was smart enough or patient enough to hold out until the format war was over...
Little known or remembered as to exactly why/how the true mechanism of action was for ending the format war, posted in ~ spring of 2010….
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man
Well, think of it this way, if it makes you feel any better, a certain studio in Burbank continued to sit on the fence (Blu and Red) and continued playing both sides in order to milk every cent out of the format war situation that they could.

When they started to get word that the retailers were lining up to make ‘the decision for them’ i.e. Blu-ray exclusivity, they then essentially ended the format war by going tru Blu…..at the same time arrogantly sticking it to the top dogs at Toshiba with jet fuel costs over the Pacific, not to mention the needless added carbon footprint to the environment.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:12 PM   #8
Clark Kent Clark Kent is offline
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I still have fond memories when word started leaking out in the equities market that Warner had decided to drop HD DVD and go with Blu-ray. HD DVD was inferior tech getting a heavy promotional push from Microsoft, since they didn't want Sony to have a huge leg-up on their new Xbox platform.
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Old 02-02-2015, 03:21 PM   #9
RickWJ324 RickWJ324 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Rister View Post
Yeah -- anyone else remember Toshiba placing an ad buy on AICN, soon followed by by Mr. Knowles declaring HD-DVD to be the future winner of the format battle?

What made me go HD DVD? The kicker is... that it can play the 9000 or so DVDs I already have, as well as the HD DVDs. That Backwards compatibility feels right. Also - from the demonstrations I've seen, HD DVD looks better than the BLUE RAY discs. I also love that the player has an upconversion that raises the quality of my existing DVD library to 720p and sometimes 1080i. I've already tested it out and DVDs that I watched last time I watched them - look better than they had before. I also have a habit of picking the winning formats. I could be wrong this time, but most of my filmmaker friends, in fact all of them that I have had a conversation regarding this with... have told me... HD DVD is the format to go with.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/32838
That story is awesome!!
I bought into HD-DVD first thinking it would probably win out in the end. I wasn't one to bicker over it though, as I'm someone with a love for technology period. I chose HD-DVD at the time I did because the price was right and the studios backing it appealed to me more (although I am also a huge Disney nut). I backed it..it lost...I bought into blu. I love my blu-rays!! I still have the hd-dvd discs (a lot of them were purchased after the war was over and could be found for a buck or two each). I've long-since ditched the hd-dvd players and converted the discs over to blu-rays (bd-r's... at least the ones that have yet to see official blu releases).

I hope we never see another format war like that again though. If we ever did I would definitely (most likely..haha) sit on the sidelines a bit longer before picking one over the other.
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Old 02-04-2015, 03:08 AM   #10
Interdimensional Interdimensional is offline
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I watched with some interest in the early days, but it was basically over by the time I bought into blu-ray. In the meantime, I'd essentially stopped buying dvds altogether, because I knew I'd be strongly tempted into upgrading down the line. I remember seeing all the red cases sitting next to the blue cases appearing in a small section of HMV. Seemed like a ridiculous situation, and I didn't expect it to last.

Blu-ray was my preferred winner, so I was happy with the outcome.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu-Dog View Post
As studios dropped out of HD-DVD, or half-heartedly "renewed their commitment" to both formats, or offered crazy support for dual format players (vaporware of a particularly pungent kind), the HD-DVD faithful did the same thing I saw three years later with 3-D:

  • Insult the companies that didn't go their way as greedy
  • Insult the companies that didn't go their way as stupid
  • Insult the user base that didn't make the same choice they did as both greedy and stupid.
  • Predict that one way or another, HD-DVD was "here to stay"
  • Set up an "in or out" clubhouse for HD-DVD, and if you didn't belong, any member could shout "HD-DVD is here to stay!" and order others out of the clubhouse, as a troll
  • Start the "show me your papers" tradition, asking how many HD-DVD's did you pick up this week/this month (not "if you" but "how many")
  • Equated "support" with "vote with your money"
Yet the format died, for many reasons, primarily that is simply offered less storage. It was so obvious.


4K really has to have plenty of storage to make it, and it needn't be expensive, either. The Format War, along with the 3-D Fizzle, are cautionary tales about trying to base a complete change on the support of unrealistic fanatics to support technology. It has to be simple, obvious, and not require a complete reboot of all technology in the home.


I am not sure if this will occur...
You can't equate 3D Blu-ray to HD-DVD. For one thing 3D Blu-ray players can play blu-rays. It's not an either/or format war. And the format has already outlasted HD-DVD's brief run.

HD-DVD and Blu-ray's were essentially offering the same thing in a different case. HD video. 3D Blu-ray offers something substantially different, something that may not be for everyone, but something that no competing format can offer.

With your ongoing posts in the 3D forum, you seem to treat it like HD-DVD, some rival format that must be down-talked out of existence. I don't understand this.
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Old 02-04-2015, 04:29 AM   #11
4K display 4K display is offline
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Worst memory - the red ant tactics

Best memory - the red ants being squished

Yes it was silly which made it all the more enjoyable
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:26 AM   #12
bailey1987 bailey1987 is offline
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What would you all do if there was another format announced to compete with Ultra HD Blu-ray?

From my understanding the new format still uses the blue laser that Blu-ray Disc does but it's tuned to a higher bit spec allowing it to read the pits on the bigger Blu-ray Disc's(66Gb,100Gb),however, Sony had been working on a new laser that was violet in colour, this hasn't been mentioned since so I would not be surprised if it appeared in another format.

There are the other optical Disc's as well Protein-Coated Disc, Layer-Selection-Type Recordable Optical Disk(LS-R) Holographic Versatile Disc and the newest one Archival Disc, any of these could just suddenly appear.

Although on saying that Protein-coated disc sounds like it uses a technique that can be applied to any disc, Archival Disc appears to just use Blu-ray Disc's, meaning that LS-R and HVD seem like the best bet, the others just extend the life of older formats.
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Old 02-05-2015, 07:40 PM   #13
Wendell R. Breland Wendell R. Breland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4K display View Post
Worst memory - the red ant tactics
It was weird how many believed the hard coat on BD would make the entire disc more brittle than CDs, DVDs and HD-DVDs. There were quite a few pictures posted that showed small cracks on the outer edge of a BD and normally included something like, “put this in my player and it would not play”. Most of the pictures were phony as a 3 dollar bill.

I finally created a depth proportioned drawing showing just how small the hard coat on BD is in comparison to the substrate. After quite sometime I revealed that those posting “put this in my player and it would not play” where as phony as the pictures. Most did not realize CDs, DVDs and BD read from the inside to the outside.
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Old 02-06-2015, 08:06 AM   #14
Bruuce Bruuce is offline
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The war was interesting to say the least. I got lucky and came across some extra money in late 2006. Was able to pick up a PS3 off of Ebay. The rest, as they say, is history.

Tropic Thunder Blu-ray vs. HD DVD
http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi2650604057
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Old 02-06-2015, 12:26 PM   #15
Blu-Dog Blu-Dog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interdimensional View Post
You can't equate 3D Blu-ray to HD-DVD. For one thing 3D Blu-ray players can play blu-rays. It's not an either/or format war. And the format has already outlasted HD-DVD's brief run.

I equate them for several reasons, some of which were due to the way both were rolled out. I hate to burden this thread with another 3-D bug-tussle, but the main comparison was in marketing hype, glaring omissions of fact, and absurd accusations from the fan-base.


The format has outlasted HD-DVD. I wonder if it has outsold HD-DVD in regard to discs sold. That's a statistic I have never seen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Interdimensional View Post
HD-DVD and Blu-ray's were essentially offering the same thing in a different case. HD video. 3D Blu-ray offers something substantially different, something that may not be for everyone, but something that no competing format can offer.

Actually, 3-D is available via streaming, broadcast, and download. Unfortunately, it's not successful in any of those formats - even fans of 3-D aren't interested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interdimensional View Post
With your ongoing posts in the 3D forum, you seem to treat it like HD-DVD, some rival format that must be down-talked out of existence. I don't understand this.

The original goal of both formats was to present them as a fait accompli for disc storage. Oddly enough, HD-DVD was the "cheap alternative" for high definition, while 3-D was supposed to raise the price of every disc to 3-D stratospheric levels (supposedly, by having total compatibility with Blu 2-D hardware).


That didn't happen. Painfully obvious technical drawbacks to both formats were glossed over by fans of both formats, for indecipherable reasons, or just completely ignored. Both were failed money-grab efforts, with their obvious technical drawbacks being the reason for their demise.


If you really want to discuss this, let's open another thread. It will be more of an autopsy.
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Old 02-07-2015, 01:30 AM   #16
Interdimensional Interdimensional is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu-Dog View Post
I equate them for several reasons, some of which were due to the way both were rolled out. I hate to burden this thread with another 3-D bug-tussle, but the main comparison was in marketing hype, glaring omissions of fact, and absurd accusations from the fan-base.


The format has outlasted HD-DVD. I wonder if it has outsold HD-DVD in regard to discs sold. That's a statistic I have never seen.


Actually, 3-D is available via streaming, broadcast, and download. Unfortunately, it's not successful in any of those formats - even fans of 3-D aren't interested.


The original goal of both formats was to present them as a fait accompli for disc storage. Oddly enough, HD-DVD was the "cheap alternative" for high definition, while 3-D was supposed to raise the price of every disc to 3-D stratospheric levels (supposedly, by having total compatibility with Blu 2-D hardware).


That didn't happen. Painfully obvious technical drawbacks to both formats were glossed over by fans of both formats, for indecipherable reasons, or just completely ignored. Both were failed money-grab efforts, with their obvious technical drawbacks being the reason for their demise.


If you really want to discuss this, let's open another thread. It will be more of an autopsy.
I don't think we have anything further to discuss. You have your point of view, that the 3D Blu-ray format is failed, doomed, finished. I'm quite confident that it has a future, even if that future is more likely to be a modest ongoing presence rather than total domination.

We're not going to reach a middle ground on the matter.

I've no interest in changing your mind, but when you go around broadcasting your opinion on the subject in threads where it's of little relevance to the topic at hand, you can expect a rebuttal.
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Old 05-27-2015, 02:32 PM   #17
tronotized22 tronotized22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu-Dog View Post
I've been here from the beginning of the Format Wars, and the worst memories were watching Toshiba pay flat-out bribes to studios to get them to go HD-DVD. It was absolutely pitiful to see; I knew the studios were just playing along to get the cash, and so did everyone else. Sony already owned a studio. Toshiba couldn't buy anyone in installments.


Some of the best memories are also the worst. As studios dropped out of HD-DVD, or half-heartedly "renewed their commitment" to both formats, or offered crazy support for dual format players (vaporware of a particularly pungent kind), the HD-DVD faithful did the same thing I saw three years later with 3-D:

  • Insult the companies that didn't go their way as greedy
  • Insult the companies that didn't go their way as stupid
  • Insult the user base that didn't make the same choice they did as both greedy and stupid.
  • Predict that one way or another, HD-DVD was "here to stay"
  • Set up an "in or out" clubhouse for HD-DVD, and if you didn't belong, any member could shout "HD-DVD is here to stay!" and order others out of the clubhouse, as a troll
  • Start the "show me your papers" tradition, asking how many HD-DVD's did you pick up this week/this month (not "if you" but "how many")
  • Equated "support" with "vote with your money"
Yet the format died, for many reasons, primarily that is simply offered less storage. It was so obvious.


4K really has to have plenty of storage to make it, and it needn't be expensive, either. The Format War, along with the 3-D Fizzle, are cautionary tales about trying to base a complete change on the support of unrealistic fanatics to support technology. It has to be simple, obvious, and not require a complete reboot of all technology in the home.


I am not sure if this will occur...
Funnily enough, I was reading the thread about DVDs being attached to Blu-Rays as a "cancerous tumor" and I see this exact same thinking as you have stated for the format wars. Why do people think like this? I have been pondering this question for a few days now, as reading the doomsday rhetoric from some of these threads when talking about digital HD movies.
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Old 05-27-2015, 03:07 PM   #18
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Been here before & after BD took over the market.

2 things immediately come to mind..

Toshiba didn't release a good player until the XA2, yet disc playback on all players was hit or miss & firmware updates didn't seem to improve long term reliability. My fav was having 3 copies of the same disc & each one would work "Randomly"

The real nail in HD-DVD's downfall & when I stopped buying them altogether is when WHV announced they would only support BD on so & so date. At the time, stats shown 40% of everything you watch on Home Video was in some way connected to WHV. Basically that announcement meant had HD DVD stuck it out anyway, their catalog would almost shrink 50% per month.

--

I have nothing against VC-1 & wasn't too thrilled when BD shifted almost entirely to AVC. Btw, is there a remastered "Training Day" out with the corrected aspect ratio on BD yet? One of the more comparable titles back then that people reviewed as "better" on HD DVD.

Price of players.. Yeah Toshiba was cheaper, but their discs were not thanks to the $5 hike for Combo discs. I remember the $44.99 MSPR price tags.

As for heated forum battles of which is better & why in a BD forum... Can't say I took part. Why would you here?
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Old 11-28-2021, 04:19 PM   #19
Paianni Paianni is offline
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I'm too young to remember the war vividly but I don't think it made a significant difference to consumer uptake of HD formats. HDTVs were very pricey until 2008 onwards and people weren't buying HD players for SD TVs.

It's unfortunate that it had to happen at all, as it meant the neutral 'studios' tended to encode media files that could be accommodated on both formats, hence Blu-ray's extra capacity was often under-utilised for the first two years. Subsequent re-issues are slowly amending that.

Given that the PS3's launch was as bad as Toshiba could hope for and they still lost, it seems extraordinary that at any point after Blu-ray's launch they thought they could win.
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Old 01-31-2015, 09:10 PM   #20
Wendell R. Breland Wendell R. Breland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krinkle View Post
I remember friends of many years over on another AV forum who quit talking over the format war.
Yes, war of most any kind can bring out the worst in many of us.

It appears I am one of the senior members here, joined not long after the site came online.
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