Object Based Broadcasting/Perceptive media

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Broadcast TV is getting a HUGE face lift with ATSC 3.0. TVs equipped with 3.0 tuners will be out in Q4.

Originally Posted by unberechenbar

I'd like to be excited for it (have the X900H with an ATSC 3.0 tuner) but from what I've read in areas that have upgraded to it (mine hasn't yet) the broadcasts are still in 1080 resolution. That said it's still early days and I'm hoping they do more with it in the coming years, whether it's adding HDR, increasing resolution, or improving audio quality.

There is no way they will focus on 4K with this stuff. It will be more like trying to squeeze more HD channels in there. I don’t see a massive uptick. Just more channels with obvious compression.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

There is no way they will focus on 4K with this stuff. It will be more like trying to squeeze more HD channels in there. I don’t see a massive uptick. Just more channels with obvious compression.

They will offer 4K HDR. It just won't be native. It will be 1080P HDR upscaled to 2160P HDR. Same way the Super Bowl was shown. Just like many of the UHD-BDs that are available.

Keep in mind that ATSC 3.0 is a combo of OTA and IP.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

They will offer 4K HDR. It just won't be native. It will be 1080P HDR upscaled to 2160P HDR. Same way the Super Bowl was shown. Just like many of the UHD-BDs that are available.

Keep in mind that ATSC 3.0 is a combo of OTA and IP.

History has taught us that they go for cost savings and more channels.

There may be one or two showcase 4K channels but that will be it.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

History has taught us that they go for cost savings and more channels.

There may be one or two showcase 4K channels but that will be it.

Actually there will be lots of 1080P HDR channels for live sports and TV shows. Will look great upscaled on 4K TVs.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Actually there will be lots of 1080P HDR channels for live sports and TV shows. Will look great upscaled on 4K TVs.

I know but it’s 2021. I can get sports in 4K now, it’s a step back watching in 1080p.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I know but it’s 2021. I can get sports in 4K now, it’s a step back watching in 1080p.

Not if you are a current OTA user: 720P & 1080i. So 1080P HDR is a big step up.

EDIT:

US antenna penetration grows 38% year-on-year

https://www.rapidtvnews.com/20210210...#axzz70te8D8yJ

[cheez avenger]

The article in the OP is from 2015, so what's come of it since in 2015 in 2021? The only thing I can think of is when you rate stuff (like/dislike) on Netflix and other streaming services. I know they had interactive episode(s) of Black Mirror and Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, but that's about it.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

The article in the OP is from 2015, so what's come of it since in 2015 in 2021? The only thing I can think of is when you rate stuff (like/dislike) on Netflix and other streaming services. I know they had interactive episode(s) of Black Mirror and Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, but that's about it.

2015! If OBB was going to take the world by storm you'd think it would at least be a blip on the radar 6 years later in 2021. It isn't.

There was other big news in 2015: Physical media's imminent death was being predicted back then, too. Hasn't happened last I looked. Everyone knows the future.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

The article in the OP is from 2015, so what's come of it since in 2015 in 2021? The only thing I can think of is when you rate stuff (like/dislike) on Netflix and other streaming services. I know they had interactive episode(s) of Black Mirror and Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, but that's about it.

This is not interactive in that sense, it’s a new way of streaming content that changes content in relation to the viewer’s mood or preferences in real time. It’s not ‘choose your own adventure’. The reason some articles are old is that it’s been in development since 2012. This is about a whole new way of transmitting and it was never going to be overnight. The first examples are expected to be simple stuff like adjusted audio for each individual or clearer graphics for the vision impaired. It will know if you are hard of hearing and automatically offer a signer or captions of your choice. The more it knows about you, the more advanced it will become. Content creators over time will adapt the technology to be more immersive. This will include music tastes, personalised content integrated into streams (local weather, colour grading to reflect your mood, your favourite food and drink etc..

The timeline was around 2023-2024. Of course, Object based audio is already here as Dolby Atmos and has been implemented in several cable and satellite services.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

This is not interactive in that sense, it’s a new way of streaming content that changes content in relation to the viewer’s mood or preferences in real time. It’s not ‘choose your own adventure’. The reason some articles are old is that it’s been in development since 2012. This is about a whole new way of transmitting and it was never going to be overnight. The first examples are expected to be simple stuff like adjusted audio for each individual or clearer graphics for the vision impaired. It will know if you are hard of hearing and automatically offer a signer or captions of your choice. The more it knows about you, the more advanced it will become. Content creators over time will adapt the technology to be more immersive. This will include music tastes, personalised content integrated into streams (local weather, colour grading to reflect your mood, your favourite food and drink etc..

The timeline was around 2023-2024. Of course, Object based audio is already here as Dolby Atmos and has been implemented in several cable and satellite services.

You're really reaching for something that just ain't there. If OBB had any legs, we would see some footprints by now. We haven't. You are basing this entire thread on an ancient 6 year-old article that is about as long and as substantive as a tweet. If there was anything to this story, you really should be able to offer something recent about it.

Trying to use Atmos audio as evidence that object based broadcasting has begun to have an impact is ridiculous; there is nothing interactive about Dolby Atmos; it is just an audio track option. You either play it or you don't: that's the limit of your choice. It in no way changes the narrative structure of the movie being watched and it is not "personalized" by any choices made by the viewer.

The people that insisted that physical media was doomed back in 2015 use the same defense that you just did for OBB's lack of growth: it was not going to happen "overnight." Those that predicted the certain death of discs back in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, and still in 2021 have been saying the exact same thing: it won't happen "overnight." You sound just like them; your and their predictions can't possibly be wrong; they just haven't happened yet.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

You're really reaching for something that just ain't there. If OBB had any legs, we would see some footprints by now. We haven't. You are basing this entire thread on an ancient 6 year-old article that is about as long and as substantive as a tweet. If there was anything to this story, you really should be able to offer something recent about it.

Trying to use Atmos audio as evidence that object based broadcasting has begun to have an impact is ridiculous; there is nothing interactive about Dolby Atmos; it is just an audio track option. You either play it or you don't: that's the limit of your choice. It in no way changes the narrative structure of the movie being watched and it is not "personalized" by any choices made by the viewer.

The people that insisted that physical media was doomed back in 2015 use the same defense that you just did for OBB's lack of growth: it was not going to happen "overnight." Those that predicted the certain death of discs back in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, and still in 2021 have been saying the exact same thing: it won't happen "overnight." You sound just like them; your and their predictions can't possibly be wrong; they just haven't happened yet.

Dolby Atmos is actually built on Object Based Audio technology. It literally IS object based audio.

The interactive side of it comes from the choice of enhancing certain sounds within a stream. For example, increasing spatial audio for crowds or enhancing instruments for a concert. You may want to give vocalists more emphasis or even backing singers.

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/pro...mos-we-explore

This explains it better. I have been following this stuff for years, I know what I’m talking about mate.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Dolby Atmos is actually built on Object Based Audio technology. It literally IS object based audio.

The interactive side of it comes from the choice of enhancing certain sounds within a stream. For example, increasing spatial audio for crowds or enhancing instruments for a concert. You may want to give vocalists more emphasis or even backing singers.

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/pro...mos-we-explore

This explains it better. I have been following this stuff for years, I know what I’m talking about mate.

An audio equalizer, a common item among audio systems for decades, lets me do much the same thing; enhance the frequencies that I want to hear.

Dolby Atmos remains pretty much an "on or off" choice. Nothing about it is changing the narrative structure of the movie being watched nor does it tailor itself based upon my previous choices. If it allowed me to decide what effects went to what channel and at what levels, that would be a personalized choice, but it doesn't allow that now does it?

If you know what you are talking about shows us an article that is not written on the dead sea scrolls showing that object based broadcasting is making a impact on how people are viewing movies and TV shows. You said this was going to be big (of course, you said that about Quibi, too):

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Surprised more people don’t know about this. It’s going to be as big as colour, stereo sound and DVD.

[Show spoiler]It’s not just another tech, it’s intended as a replacement for the old ways of broadcasting and streaming. It’s going to shake things up forever, for good or bad.

It would be wrong to think of it as just a opportunity for targeted ads though, it’s meant to be hyper focussed on personalisation.

Let me give you two examples. One subtle, one dramatic

Subtle

A woman stands by a merry go round, she seems lost in thought. Music changes from cheery, upbeat stuff in one scene to dark and broody. The colour grading alters also, one scene is bright and colourful, one is desaturated and shot with dull browns and green tint.

In other words, the same scene but with two different reels to match your mood or profile for that moment.

Dramatic

A character is being stalked in his/her home by a masked man. When the phone rings it’s the villain on the other line but rather than phoning the character being stalked, the film has actually phoned your mobile. When you pick up, it’s the villain speaking to you and asking something. Your reply impacts the victim and what the villain does next.

The subtle example doesn’t require interaction at all

The dramatic example is just one of the possibilities that will be available. Alternatively it could use your Alexa to add subtle effects such as whispering to the dialogue or maybe increase the loudness of certain sound effects depending on where it’s placed.

If you are using a tablet, you may be able to look at the same data that a onscreen character is researching. The tv would display the action and your iPad could give you a detailed view of whatever the character is looking at. This could all be done via layered objects in the stream or broadcast.

My opinion is that it stinks of gimmicks but I can see the subtle version being a success sadly. Maybe even the extreme side of things.

Where's the evidence of it being "big" or getting bigger? That ancient 6 year-old four paragraph puff piece that anchors your entire thread offers none. Show us something from the past year that predicts this dominant future for OBB.

If you are going to make a thread about some supposed revolutionary change to how we view home entertainment, try basing it upon a recent and detailed article. What you cited reads like an old Twitter post and it offers nothing to support your bold prediction.

[Steedeel]

More recent you say?

https://www.smpte.org/blog/object-ba...eality-finally

Bearing in mind the pandemic has ***** up time and resources.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

An audio equalizer, a common item among audio systems for decades, lets me do much the same thing; enhance the frequencies that I want to hear.

Dolby Atmos remains pretty much an "on or off" choice. Nothing about it is changing the narrative structure of the movie being watched nor does it tailor itself based upon my previous choices. If it allowed me to decide what effects went to what channel and at what levels, that would be a personalized choice, but it doesn't allow that now does it?

If you know what you are talking about shows us an article that is not written on the dead sea scrolls showing that object based broadcasting is making a impact on how people are viewing movies and TV shows. You said this was going to be big (of course, you said that about Quibi, too):



Where's the evidence of it being "big" or getting bigger? That ancient 6 year-old four paragraph puff piece that anchors your entire thread offers none. Show us something from the past year that predicts this dominant future for OBB.

If you are going to make a thread about some supposed revolutionary change to how we view home entertainment, try basing it upon a recent and detailed article. What you cited reads like an old Twitter post.

Dolby Atmos is object based. It relies on additional layers on top of the original source. That’s exactly how OBM works.

I already give you an example of the audio side of things. Singling out a line of dialogue, enhancing certain background noises, improving speech when characters are whispering, changing the audio of a specific scene, etc..

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

More recent you say?

https://www.smpte.org/blog/object-ba...eality-finally

Bearing in mind the pandemic has ***** up time and resources.

That is more recent, 2019, but it just reiterates what OBB is; nothing there that indicates that it is going to be as big as "colour, stereo sound and DVD" as you have predicted.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

That is more recent, 2019, but it just reiterates what OBB is; nothing there that indicates that it is going to be as big as "as colour, stereo sound and DVD" as you have predicted.

It absolutely could be that profound. That’s what I fear from it.

We know that traditional interactive narratives are limited. Perceptive media and OBB are not.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Dolby Atmos is object based. It relies on additional layers on top of the original source. That’s exactly how OBM works.

I already give you an example of the audio side of things. Singling out a line of dialogue, enhancing certain background noises, improving speech when characters are whispering, changing the audio of a specific scene, etc..

None of which changes the narrative of the movie being watched. None of which changes our ability to have a discussion about a movie, or as you call it: our shared experience.

I discuss movies routinely with friends that do not have any form of surround sound system. Their lack of Dolby Atmos capability in no way lessens our ability to discuss a movie that we have each seen; it just means that they can not appreciate the audio as much as someone with that capability.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

None of which changes the narrative of the movie being watched. None of which changes our ability to have a discussion about a movie, or as you call it: our shared experience.

I discuss movies routinely with friends that do not have any form of surround sound system. Their lack of Dolby Atmos capability in no way lessens our ability to discuss a movie that we have each seen; it just means that they can not appreciate the audio as much as someone with that capability.

That’s because you are discussing a traditional film. OBA in the case of OBB/OBM would be used as another tool to change the experience for the individual viewer. One without the other wouldn’t make sense.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It absolutely could be that profound. That’s what I fear from it.

We know that traditional interactive narratives are limited. Perceptive media and OBB are not.

It could also just be another viewing option that people may or may not give a damn about. It could just be another viewing option that in no way impacts how you, and we, choose to view something. It could be much ado (from you) about nothing like so many other things that you have predicted. I still keep a 7-iron near my TV to ward of the vegans coming for it; I heed your every word.

As neither of our predictions have happened yet, by your "logic" both predictions remain equally valid. You have shown no evidence of this being offered, yet alone embraced by consumers, on anything resembling a large scale. Where's the evidence that people want this? You haven't offered any.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

It could also just be another viewing option that people may or may not give a damn about. It could just be another viewing option that in no way impacts how you, and we, choose to view something. It could be much ado (from you) about nothing like so many other things that you have predicted. I still keep a 7-iron near my TV to ward of the vegans coming for my large TV.

As neither of our predictions have happened yet, by your "logic" both predictions remain equally valid. You have shown no evidence of this being offered, yet alone embraced by consumers, on anything resembling a large scale. Where's the evidence that people want this? You haven't offered any.

Where was the evidence that people would embrace colour films? Two strip technicolour was actually disliked by audiences who wanted to return to Black And White. Studios complied and it was only when true technicolour came that they changed their minds. You are asking me to prove that a future tech will be successful and that is impossible.
However, if it implemented as a broadcast/streaming distribution system, it’s here to stay.