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Old 12-15-2022, 07:45 PM   #61
PeterTHX PeterTHX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantburnette View Post
She's an enormous Trekkie
Literally.
Depressing to think morbid obesity is still an issue on Earth 1200 years from now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StingingVelvet View Post
I think to be a conservative or nationalist and be a big fan of Trek you would have to be either extremely dense as to its messaging or have a truly exceptional ability to separate art from its message.
Or you could stop painting conservatives with such a broad and ignorant brush?
TREK's moral messaging is largely universal.
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Old 12-16-2022, 02:33 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post
Or you could stop painting conservatives with such a broad and ignorant brush?
TREK's moral messaging is largely universal.
Conservative and nationalist are defined ideologies. You either are one or you aren't. If you are, you'd have to ignore a loooot of Star Trek's messaging to enjoy it. Happy you can do that I guess.
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Old 12-16-2022, 10:18 AM   #63
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Perhaps, but Discovery's writing is very blunt. I really don't think past Trek was as clumsy.


Would you feel the same way if it was someone from the other side instead? Surely you don't think only one side of the aisle likes Star Trek, right?

I am not on either side as they all seem to not be interested in actually solving problems, just pretending to. When you 'other' a group of people, you end up where the US is now. Both sides do it and now nobody seems to be able to come together. Both sides think the other side is wrong and both feel they are correct and the other side is brainwashed. When you deliberately bring in a politician to a show, you exacerbate that. Inclusion, not exclusion...right?

Star Trek is supposed to represent optimism and the pinnacle of civilization as we follow the adventures of a ship and her crew as they help others. Discovery is focused squarely on one character to the detriment of everything else. It is not at all similar to other Star Trek.

All I'm saying is I wish Star Trek Discovery wove in 'messaging' better and spent more time on the rest of the crew. It'd also be nice if writers looked up The Hero's Journey. Is that really unreasonable?
Fella, I don't give a tin shit what people on that side of the aisle think at this point, and am unlikely ever to do so again.
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Old 12-16-2022, 02:37 PM   #64
PeterTHX PeterTHX is offline
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If you are, you'd have to ignore a loooot of Star Trek's messaging to enjoy it. Happy you can do that I guess.
Like what? Specific examples please.

Yes, I'm calling bullshit.

Last edited by PeterTHX; 12-16-2022 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 12-16-2022, 02:46 PM   #65
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From what Iíve read so far about this series on here and liking most of the past Star Trek franchise I probably would not like this particular series at all
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Old 12-17-2022, 01:01 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post
Like what? Specific examples please.

Yes, I'm calling bullshit.
If you need Star Trek's progressive and globalist messages spelled out for you I don't think this conversation is really worth having, no offense.
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Old 12-17-2022, 06:54 AM   #67
PeterTHX PeterTHX is offline
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Originally Posted by StingingVelvet View Post
If you need Star Trek's progressive and globalist messages spelled out for you I don't think this conversation is really worth having, no offense.
The problem is that you assume that conservatives think alike or that certain values they hold aren't the same or actually 180 degrees from what you think they are.

As I said a lot of of TREK's messaging is universal. Racism: bad. War: bad. Revenge: bad. Holding a grudge: bad. Helping others: good. Exploring the universe: good. Science: good. Protecting those you care about: good. Or - like in The Pale Moonlight of DS9 - sometimes bad things have to be done for the greater good. Discipline and doing your job: GOOD.

Otherwise you can't say. No offense taken because I don't believe you have an actual argument here.
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Old 12-17-2022, 08:58 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post
As I said a lot of of TREK's messaging is universal. Racism: bad. War: bad. Revenge: bad. Holding a grudge: bad. Helping others: good. Exploring the universe: good. Science: good. Protecting those you care about: good. Or - like in The Pale Moonlight of DS9 - sometimes bad things have to be done for the greater good. Discipline and doing your job: GOOD.
These aren't even universal in Trek, let alone the real world. The Borg were all about "discipline and doing your job".

No idea why people are denying Trek has been leftwingy from the beginning. I mean, the plot of Star Trek IV is basically "save the whales".
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Old 12-17-2022, 04:33 PM   #69
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Imagine a show so great that you need political ideology to defend it.
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Old 12-17-2022, 04:45 PM   #70
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No idea why people are denying Trek has been leftwingy from the beginning.
Because they like a thing and are now way more political than they used to be and don't want to accept thing was always thing.
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Old 12-17-2022, 04:53 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by StingingVelvet View Post
Because they like a thing and are now way more political than they used to be and don't want to accept thing was always thing.
It just goes to show how intolerant people have become in society especially when the argument is: you can't like [insert thing here] because you're [insert thing here]. As if everything is black and white and their are no shades of gray in life.
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Old 12-17-2022, 05:17 PM   #72
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Yes, I prefer the more subtle political messaging in classic Trek, such as in the TOS episode The Omega Glory - the one with the Kohms and the Yangs, and Kirk making speeches about the U.S. Constitution. About as subtle as a hammer (or sickle) to the face!
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Old 12-17-2022, 06:26 PM   #73
PeterTHX PeterTHX is offline
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Yes, I prefer the more subtle political messaging in classic Trek, such as in the TOS episode The Omega Glory - the one with the Kohms and the Yangs, and Kirk making speeches about the U.S. Constitution. About as subtle as a hammer (or sickle) to the face!
Well these days the so-called progressives are likely to side with the Kohms and dismiss the Constitution as something written by "cis white men".

That certainly isn't Star Trek either.
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Old 12-17-2022, 06:28 PM   #74
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These aren't even universal in Trek, let alone the real world. The Borg were all about "discipline and doing your job".
Borg is more akin to Communism - just a cog in the machine. No individuality. The state control over you is absolute.

Quote:
No idea why people are denying Trek has been leftwingy from the beginning. I mean, the plot of Star Trek IV is basically "save the whales".
No doubt. But it certainly isn't anti-conservative either.
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Old 12-17-2022, 10:00 PM   #75
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It just goes to show how intolerant people have become in society especially when the argument is: you can't like [insert thing here] because you're [insert thing here]. As if everything is black and white and their are no shades of gray in life.
Well, I didn't say that, you're framing it that way. I said to like it you have to ignore a lot of its progressive and globalist messaging, which is absolutely true.
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Old 12-18-2022, 06:35 AM   #76
PeterTHX PeterTHX is offline
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Seems to me the Prime Directive is a Libertarian's wet dream.

TREK appeals to all sides.
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Old 12-18-2022, 10:13 AM   #77
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Regarding the Borg, they can be taken either way. The more extreme your political views get, the difference between left and right wing gets increasingly blurred. Individual rights are still eaten away, unless you are one of the ruling 0.01%. The Borg Queen, and billions of drones working for the good of the "state" and dissenting voices silenced. Fascism or communism, the Borg could be either. It's ironic the two political groups historically hate each other.

Back to DSC, Borg have been mentioned I noticed, but I wonder if they'll ever appear? They may even already be in or will rejoin the Federation (unless Agnes' Collective was wiped out in the intervening 800-or so years).

Last edited by oddbox83; 12-18-2022 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 12-18-2022, 11:47 PM   #78
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Back to DSC, Borg have been mentioned I noticed, but I wonder if they'll ever appear? They may even already be in or will rejoin the Federation (unless Agnes' Collective was wiped out in the intervening 800-or so years).
They're the only Borg that aren't in disarray. You got the Kazon using their Transwarp network now and everything since the Unicomplex and the Queen was wiped out. The Federation had planets in the Delta Quadrant. Safe to say the Borg are no longer a threat. I'm wondering about the Dominion.
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Old 12-19-2022, 07:29 AM   #79
oddbox83 oddbox83 is offline
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I'm wondering about the Dominion.
Well, it doesn't appear to be unusual to anyone to see a Changeling. That tells us nothing directly about the Dominion, but perhaps Changelings are openly here (and presumably some members of the species were trapped here by the Burn given where we see this one and what they're up to), that suggests they were more integrated.
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Old 12-19-2022, 03:14 PM   #80
PeterTHX PeterTHX is offline
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Quote:
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Well, it doesn't appear to be unusual to anyone to see a Changeling. That tells us nothing directly about the Dominion, but perhaps Changelings are openly here (and presumably some members of the species were trapped here by the Burn given where we see this one and what they're up to), that suggests they were more integrated.
Except there were other species of Changeling in TOS (& TOS films). The people who rescued and taught Garth of Izar. Marta in Star Trek VI. It wasn't only the Founders.
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