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Old 01-30-2008, 08:41 AM   #1
saprano saprano is offline
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Default active and passive subwoofer's

I stumble upon this article on avs http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=985964 so i already know the differince between the two, but how can i tell if mine is active or passive?. i just picked up this definitive tech sub today, http://www.definitivetech.com/dealer...000_noback.jpg ,
and here you can read the specs on it if you scroll to the bottom http://www.definitivetech.com/loudsp...nema_1000.html ,but it doesint say anything about it being active or passive so does anybody know from reading those specs what kind do i have?

another question, ill be using the lfe input on the sub so do i have to play around with the crossover freqency or does the amp take care of that? i read somewere that if using a lfe input there's no need to adjust the freqency? if i do have to adjust it what hz should i set in on?.
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:46 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post
I stumble upon this article on avs http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=985964 so i already know the differince between the two, but how can i tell if mine is active or passive?. i just picked up this definitive tech sub today, http://www.definitivetech.com/dealer...000_noback.jpg ,
and here you can read the specs on it if you scroll to the bottom http://www.definitivetech.com/loudsp...nema_1000.html ,but it doesint say anything about it being active or passive so does anybody know from reading those specs what kind do i have?

another question, ill be using the lfe input on the sub so do i have to play around with the crossover freqency or does the amp take care of that? i read somewere that if using a lfe input there's no need to adjust the freqency? if i do have to adjust it what hz should i set in on?.
Passive subs need an external amp, active (powered) will have a built in amp.

Yours has a built in amplifier.
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:53 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by saprano View Post

another question, ill be using the lfe input on the sub so do i have to play around with the crossover freqency or does the amp take care of that? i read somewere that if using a lfe input there's no need to adjust the freqency? if i do have to adjust it what hz should i set in on?.
Sorry, didn't address the second part of your question, I believe many people will roll it off around 60-80 HZ in order to not let the sub. But I would be interested in how others have setup their subs as both the sub and the processors have their own filters. Do most open up the filter on the sub to the highest level and then adjust the setting on the receiver?

I do not currently have this issue, my speakers have a built in second bass coil that is passive and I feed it from any extra power amp with all the high freq filtered out from my sub-out on my processor.

But I am considering trying my M&K sub back into my HT system so I have the same question as to where most people filter out the highs.
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:24 AM   #4
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Ill run the audyssey in onkyo later on today to see what it come's up with.
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:42 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by saprano View Post
another question, ill be using the lfe input on the sub so do i have to play around with the crossover freqency or does the amp take care of that? i read somewere that if using a lfe input there's no need to adjust the freqency? if i do have to adjust it what hz should i set in on?.
It depends on the speakers that you have. If they are floor standings IE LARGE, you set it on the receiver and then the receiver will direct the full 0.1 signal to your sub. THEN, you can set up your receiver to the setting best suit to cover the frequency range so that there is no duplication between your speakers and the subwoofer.

The same is true for small speakers but you won't have the problem of frequency duplication if you didn't set it up correctly.


fuad
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Old 01-30-2008, 05:35 PM   #6
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It depends on the speakers that you have. If they are floor standings IE LARGE, you set it on the receiver and then the receiver will direct the full 0.1 signal to your sub. THEN, you can set up your receiver to the setting best suit to cover the frequency range so that there is no duplication between your speakers and the subwoofer.

The same is true for small speakers but you won't have the problem of frequency duplication if you didn't set it up correctly.


fuad
there bookshelfs and i have them on a stand, the onkyo audyssey
set my fronts to fullband and my center to 150hz, im guessing because my subwoofer not hooked up yet?
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Old 01-30-2008, 05:59 PM   #7
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I didnt prefer the audyssey calibration from my onkyo, I set the equilizer manually.

And for your question, when using the LFE input, do NOT use the crossover on the sub. That is only for use when your reciever does not apply a rolloff. With the new onkyo's, you can adjust the frequency to start rolloff. THX recommends 80Hz if that is any help. But if you listen to a lot of music, then you may want to go a little higher, say 120Hz. It's all up to your own ears!
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Old 01-30-2008, 06:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDaddyOJack View Post
I didnt prefer the audyssey calibration from my onkyo, I set the equilizer manually.

And for your question, when using the LFE input, do NOT use the crossover on the sub. That is only for use when your reciever does not apply a rolloff. With the new onkyo's, you can adjust the frequency to start rolloff. THX recommends 80Hz if that is any help. But if you listen to a lot of music, then you may want to go a little higher, say 120Hz. It's all up to your own ears!
What settings did you cange from what the audyssey came up with?
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Old 01-30-2008, 06:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDaddyOJack View Post
I didnt prefer the audyssey calibration from my onkyo, I set the equilizer manually.

And for your question, when using the LFE input, do NOT use the crossover on the sub. That is only for use when your reciever does not apply a rolloff. With the new onkyo's, you can adjust the frequency to start rolloff. THX recommends 80Hz if that is any help. But if you listen to a lot of music, then you may want to go a little higher, say 120Hz. It's all up to your own ears!
so i should set my sub to 80hz? i think someone els told me to turn it all the way up to 150hz? and the manual that i have say's turn the nob all the way up to?
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Old 01-30-2008, 06:09 PM   #10
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and what the a level controll? the manual says put it at 12 o'clock what does that do?
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Old 01-30-2008, 06:45 PM   #11
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and what the a level controll? the manual says put it at 12 o'clock what does that do?
I think it means the level of bass it will output. I have that on my Definitive subwoofers.
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Old 01-30-2008, 06:52 PM   #12
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so i should set my sub to 80hz? i think someone els told me to turn it all the way up to 150hz? and the manual that i have say's turn the nob all the way up to?
Good choice on your sub, you'll enjoy it. A couple of pieces of info:

Since you have a sub, it's always best to set your speakers to "small" if you have that choice in the setup. What this does is reduce the low tones sent to your speakers; instead, they'll be sent to the subwoofer. Usually, you can set this crossover point, but the default is 80Hz (THX uses this as the standard).

There's a benefit to doing this. First, you'll use less power from your amp or receiver to get sound out of them - it takes more energy to move mass for low tones. Second, even smaller drivers (woofers and midrange speakers under 7") can go "sloppy" stretching for the low notes, while also reproducing higher tones in the spectrum - and the band above 80Hz is where you detect clarity in the sound.

When setting up the sub, some people want to set higher frequencies, above 80Hz, because it is sound louder. This is common with car systems, and is an old trick. The problem is, you now have a large sound diaphragm, designed to deliver very low notes, now using energy to produce higher ones - and you lose clarity in the sub sound. For some, looking only for the boom of low sound, this doesn't matter. For you, looking for accurate reproduction from a precise source in film or music, you want clean, snapping bass sound. You want it to "hit it and quit it" fast - the higher tones will come from your main speakers.

So set the sub at 80Hz, set your speakers to "small" or adjust them to reproduce everything above 80Hz, and you'll get the best performance from both.
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Old 01-30-2008, 06:56 PM   #13
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and what the a level controll? the manual says put it at 12 o'clock what does that do?
There's a fixed signal coming in from your receiver for sub tones. The volume is set by the source material (music, movie, whatever). You adjust the gain - the level which the signal is altered by the sub's amp - with that knob. It's not the same as volume, but it winds up working that way.

If you leave it in the middle, the pure signal is not altered. To the left, you attenuate the signal; to the right, you boost it, with corresponding changes in volume from the sub. Boosting it decreases clarity, unfortunately.

You may have a way of increasing the sub signal from the amp, preferable to changing it on the sub itself. Hope this helps!
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Old 01-30-2008, 07:51 PM   #14
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Good choice on your sub, you'll enjoy it. A couple of pieces of info:

Since you have a sub, it's always best to set your speakers to "small" if you have that choice in the setup. What this does is reduce the low tones sent to your speakers; instead, they'll be sent to the subwoofer. Usually, you can set this crossover point, but the default is 80Hz (THX uses this as the standard).

There's a benefit to doing this. First, you'll use less power from your amp or receiver to get sound out of them - it takes more energy to move mass for low tones. Second, even smaller drivers (woofers and midrange speakers under 7") can go "sloppy" stretching for the low notes, while also reproducing higher tones in the spectrum - and the band above 80Hz is where you detect clarity in the sound.

When setting up the sub, some people want to set higher frequencies, above 80Hz, because it is sound louder. This is common with car systems, and is an old trick. The problem is, you now have a large sound diaphragm, designed to deliver very low notes, now using energy to produce higher ones - and you lose clarity in the sub sound. For some, looking only for the boom of low sound, this doesn't matter. For you, looking for accurate reproduction from a precise source in film or music, you want clean, snapping bass sound. You want it to "hit it and quit it" fast - the higher tones will come from your main speakers.

So set the sub at 80Hz, set your speakers to "small" or adjust them to reproduce everything above 80Hz, and you'll get the best performance from both.
wow thanks for that clear and precise information, ill be using the onkyo audyssey so it should set my fronts to small(40,50,60?) and sub to 80? or should i set the sub higher? right now my fronts are at fullband (center 150hz) but when i add my sub that should change right?, and to make sure im clear...since im using a lfe input i DO NOT have to adjust to crossover nob on the sub?.
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
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wow thanks for that clear and precise information, ill be using the onkyo audyssey so it should set my fronts to small(40,50,60?) and sub to 80? or should i set the sub higher? right now my fronts are at fullband (center 150hz) but when i add my sub that should change right?, and to make sure im clear...since im using a lfe input i DO NOT have to adjust to crossover nob on the sub?.
I'm not familiar with the Audyssey format, but if it allows for customization, set your speakers to 80Hz or above. More than likely, your speakers will have specs saying they can deliver lower - but don't do it, that's not their "sweet spot".

Having the center at 150Hz is fine. I'd have the fronts and surrounds at 80Hz at the bottom, and the sub at 80Hz at the top. Even if you set the fronts and surrounds a bit higher, it wouldn't hurt - these settings aren't always that precise.

If the Audyssey program automatically adjusts the frequencies based on the settings, all the better, but test it by listening. Other things affect sound, including the placement of your speakers and sub, and other things in the room. Size, furniture placement, the location of your center, all can affect these things.

I will check the specs on your sub. Some have a switch that allows for pure signal from the LFE connection; flip it, and you can customize it. I don't have that ability on my Klipsch subs, or the subs in the Definitive Mythos SuperTowers; I do have it on my JL Fathom sub, so it's not always the same. For your rig, it's probably best to go with flat settings on the sub, and let the amp do the parameters.
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:15 PM   #16
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...and to make sure im clear...since im using a lfe input i DO NOT have to adjust to crossover nob on the sub?.
Just checked, and yes, if you're using the LFE connector, you bypass all the internal settings and go with the signal put out by the receiver.

Have fun with it - and use your own ears, what you like to hear is what's best. You'll wind up fiddling with it, what I've said so far is the established baseline standard. Make sure your final settings are what makes it sound right to you.
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:18 PM   #17
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Just checked, and yes, if you're using the LFE connector, you bypass all the internal settings and go with the signal put out by the receiver.

Have fun with it - and use your own ears, what you like to hear is what's best. You'll wind up fiddling with it, what I've said so far is the established baseline standard. Make sure your final settings are what makes it sound right to you.
great thanks, so even if i did touch the nob on the sub nothing will happen because its automaticly turned off?
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Old 01-31-2008, 12:30 AM   #18
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great thanks, so even if i did touch the nob on the sub nothing will happen because its automaticly turned off?
You won't break anything by changing the gain knob - it's using the LFE connection, so changes would be ignored. You're OK.
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Old 01-31-2008, 12:53 AM   #19
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Having the center at 150Hz is fine. I'd have the fronts and surrounds at 80Hz at the bottom, and the sub at 80Hz at the top.
Setting the center at 150hz is way to high, if you do this you will hear voices from your sub as many voices fall in the 120hz to 150hz range.For your system set everything to 80hz and leave it there, your speakers would sound best not trying to reproduce low bass.

bill
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:04 AM   #20
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Setting the center at 150hz is way to high, if you do this you will hear voices from your sub as many voices fall in the 120hz to 150hz range.For your system set everything to 80hz and leave it there, your speakers would sound best not trying to reproduce low bass.

bill
Its only at 150hz now because i havint hooked up my sub yet, when i do im sure the auydeyssey will set it around that number.
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