Best Blu-ray Movie Deals


Best Blu-ray Movie Deals, See All the Deals »
Top deals | New deals  
 All countries United States United Kingdom Canada Germany France Spain Italy Australia Netherlands Japan Mexico
Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio 4K (Blu-ray)
$34.99
1 day ago
Black Hawk Down 4K (Blu-ray)
$30.99
1 day ago
2 Days in the Valley (Blu-ray)
$26.13
15 hrs ago
Unforgiven 4K (Blu-ray)
$14.99
1 day ago
Samurai Jack: The Complete Series (Blu-ray)
$49.00
2 hrs ago
Shawscope Volume Two (Blu-ray)
$89.45
 
Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (Blu-ray)
$10.95
8 hrs ago
Army of Darkness (Blu-ray)
$5.99
3 hrs ago
Love, Chunibyo & Other Delusions: Ultimate Collection (Blu-ray)
$34.99
 
Jaws 2 4K (Blu-ray)
$16.99
1 day ago
For All Mankind: Season One (Blu-ray)
$38.85
1 day ago
Blast of Silence (Blu-ray)
$27.99
1 day ago
What's your next favorite movie?
Join our movie community to find out


Image from: Life of Pi (2012)

Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Subwoofers

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-13-2014, 11:28 PM   #17581
schan1269 schan1269 is offline
Blu-ray Guru
 
Sep 2013
Lake county, Indiana. Opposite end of Gary...
2
Default

Multiple subs doesn't "better the bass".

It evens out room issues. Not the same thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2014, 11:35 PM   #17582
superpacman superpacman is offline
Expert Member
 
superpacman's Avatar
 
Oct 2014
47
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post
Well I guess it depends on one's individual needs. For example, if you're a music buff, the supposed advantages of the PC-12 would be wasted. Or if you have small room where extra watts are not really needed for music or movies to fill the room with sound at reason db levels.

As for movies vs music, you do realize that an infinitesimal amount of movies are mixed with information below 25 hz.

Also, two F12's could be a better purchase than one PC12, as two of them are still cheaper than one PC12 and you get the advantage that comes with better bass from multiple subs.
Well, your original question was "Why isn't in the same league? What can the PC-12 do that the F-12 isn't capable of?".

An explanation given explained why it wasn’t in the same league, and what the PC12 can do that the other could not.

Now you are going someone else with it, and if we followed along with your thinking, you are still wrong on all accounts.

A true music buff will not use a subwoofer, but they will use a simple 2 channel setup, and I’m pretty sure the left and right speaker will be able to handle the hz from music. So, both subs would be wasted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post
As for movies vs music, you do realize that an infinitesimal amount of movies are mixed with information below 25 hz.
To answer this one, I will go with an old saying, It’s better to have it, and not use it, then to wish you had and can’t. Again, the PC12 can handle that.

You have a misconception to multiple subs in a room. Having multiple subs does not give you better bass, having multiple subs will give you even bass across the room. Although having (2)bics still will not give you the quality of LFE necessary for movies that DO go down to 20hz
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
Billy13 (10-15-2014), Troll2fan (10-14-2014)
Old 10-14-2014, 11:56 AM   #17583
cchunter cchunter is offline
Member
 
cchunter's Avatar
 
Feb 2011
Wisconsin
7
249
8
Default

My RF7II's sound great for two channel music but throw in the SB13 Ultra and it's just simply better. Then again I must not be a TRUE Music Buff because I use a sub when listening to music.
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
Billy13 (10-15-2014)
Old 10-14-2014, 03:05 PM   #17584
kesando kesando is offline
Active Member
 
kesando's Avatar
 
Jul 2010
Queens, NY
Cool New/Updated Model From SVS

Introducing the new PC-2000

http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/cylinder/pc-2000
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 04:48 PM   #17585
Auditor55 Auditor55 is offline
Power Member
 
Sep 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schan1269 View Post
Multiple subs doesn't "better the bass".

It evens out room issues. Not the same thing.
That, in my opinion, equates to better bass, most experts would agree that opinion.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 05:10 PM   #17586
schan1269 schan1269 is offline
Blu-ray Guru
 
Sep 2013
Lake county, Indiana. Opposite end of Gary...
2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post
That, in my opinion, equates to better bass, most experts would agree that opinion.
Splitting hairs based on the misconception of the originator, here, of the topic.

Two BIC F12 are nowhere near 1 sub that costs more than twice what two F12 do together.

My first sub was Goliath. My oldest sub is a 2nd generation M&K.

Last edited by schan1269; 10-14-2014 at 05:15 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
Kirk Out (10-14-2014)
Old 10-14-2014, 05:42 PM   #17587
Auditor55 Auditor55 is offline
Power Member
 
Sep 2011
Default

Quote:
Well, your original question was "Why isn't in the same league? What can the PC-12 do that the F-12 isn't capable of?".
Well "in the same league or not in same league" is a cute metaphor, which is kind of subjective and often times pejorative. I guess what I was asking, which I tried to get you to explain when I used the word "capable" was for practical applications in a particular home theater/music environment, what makes the F12 not in the same league.

Quote:
An explanation given explained why it wasnít in the same league, and what the PC12 can do that the other could not.
You gave me raw specs, I guess it's my fault that I didn't do a better job of framing the question. If I can make analogy in display technology, are 1080p flat panel display's not in the same league as 4K display, just based on the fact that a 4k display has twice the resolution? Based on the raw specs it would seem so, however for practical applications in a particular home theater environment, it might not so.

Quote:
Now you are going someone else with it, and if we followed along with your thinking, you are still wrong on all accounts.

A true music buff will not use a subwoofer, but they will use a simple 2 channel setup, and Iím pretty sure the left and right speaker will be able to handle the hz from music. So, both subs would be wasted.
Surely a music buff will incorporate a sub or subs, where have you been? I will agree that some so-called audiophiles probably wouldn't use a sub in a music audio system, however music buff and audiophile isn't exactly the same thing. Some audiophile still believe that vinyl sounds better than CD. Even among some so-called audiophiles that paradigm is changing as they learn to evolve.



Quote:
To answer this one, I will go with an old saying, Itís better to have it, and not use it, then to wish you had and canít. Again, the PC12 can handle that.
That would make sense if you didn't pay a premium for something you are not going to use or need.

Quote:
You have a misconception to multiple subs in a room. Having multiple subs does not give you better bass, having multiple subs will give you even bass across the room. Although having (2)bics still will not give you the quality of LFE necessary for movies that DO go down to 20hz
Even bass is better bass. Why would you want to have a room where you can hear and feel bass in one part of the room and not in the other?

This is just my opinion, but even distribution of bass in a room should be the goal of every enthusiast over watts, output or ULF.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 05:50 PM   #17588
schan1269 schan1269 is offline
Blu-ray Guru
 
Sep 2013
Lake county, Indiana. Opposite end of Gary...
2
Default

Missing the point. Once you are below 30hz(trust me, 30hz from a sub with an f3 of 25, vs one with an f3 of 20...the immense)...you only need one subwoofer.

In my theatres the main 4/6 are all capable of 40hz. My subs in each case only perform what they are intended to do.

By the way...I dont prescribe to the 80hz "myth".

Watch The Guillotines sometime with crossovers set 100, 80 and 40. Assuming your other speakers are capable of 40hz. Center channel is rarely loaded with under 100hz.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 05:50 PM   #17589
Auditor55 Auditor55 is offline
Power Member
 
Sep 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schan1269 View Post
Splitting hairs based on the misconception of the originator, here, of the topic.

Two BIC F12 are nowhere near 1 sub that costs more than twice what two F12 do together.

My first sub was Goliath. My oldest sub is a 2nd generation M&K.
I was just responding to the metaphor "Not in the same league". I was trying get that claim substantiated as it pertains to the PC-NSD v. F12.

The opinion you've given me above, for practical purposes, doesn't really substantiate that claim.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 02:22 AM   #17590
superpacman superpacman is offline
Expert Member
 
superpacman's Avatar
 
Oct 2014
47
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post
[Show spoiler] Well "in the same league or not in same league" is a cute metaphor, which is kind of subjective and often times pejorative. I guess what I was asking, which I tried to get you to explain when I used the word "capable" was for practical applications in a particular home theater/music environment, what makes the F12 not in the same league.



You gave me raw specs, I guess it's my fault that I didn't do a better job of framing the question. If I can make analogy in display technology, are 1080p flat panel display's not in the same league as 4K display, just based on the fact that a 4k display has twice the resolution? Based on the raw specs it would seem so, however for practical applications in a particular home theater environment, it might not so.



Surely a music buff will incorporate a sub or subs, where have you been? I will agree that some so-called audiophiles probably wouldn't use a sub in a music audio system, however music buff and audiophile isn't exactly the same thing. Some audiophile still believe that vinyl sounds better than CD. Even among some so-called audiophiles that paradigm is changing as they learn to evolve.





That would make sense if you didn't pay a premium for something you are not going to use or need.



Even bass is better bass. Why would you want to have a room where you can hear and feel bass in one part of the room and not in the other?

This is just my opinion, but even distribution of bass in a room should be the goal of every enthusiast over watts, output or ULF
.

lets stick to the original question, because you are going off into some weirdo different then normal lifestyle. Of course not everyone is going to agree on what is better, because each person lifestyle is different.

You asked:
"Why isn't in the same league? What can the PC-12 do that the F-12 isn't capable of?".

and it was answered, then you want to try and use a scenario that possibly would make the f-12 a better buy.

The question wasn't which is a better buy, but "Why isn't in the same league?", and answered with "f-12 cannot get below 25hz and sound good", there would be distortion. Getting into/below 20hz is in a different league then simply 25 or 30hz.

As you pointing out in another reply, "that the F-12 isn't capable of", Again, the thing cannot get down into the lower hz. That alone tells me and others, that it isn't in the same league.
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
Billy13 (10-15-2014), Kirk Out (10-15-2014)
Old 10-15-2014, 03:37 AM   #17591
Billy13 Billy13 is offline
Blu-ray Count
 
Billy13's Avatar
 
Mar 2013
Somewhere Between Heaven ↑ & Hell ↓ ......
436
115
63
Default



Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post
Why isn't in the same league? What can the PC-12 do that the F-12 isn't capable of?
http://youtu.be/v5VxX_9IfS8


Last edited by Billy13; 10-15-2014 at 03:42 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 08:46 PM   #17592
Badas Badas is offline
Blu-ray Knight
 
Badas's Avatar
 
Aug 2008
LOTR Auckland, New Zealand (Down Under)
134
85
1382
16
11
10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy13 View Post
Love that add. My SVS's seem like that. They sit there and growl. Never complain. When masses of bass come on they just give a cheeky grin as ya whole world rattles.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 09:12 PM   #17593
Auditor55 Auditor55 is offline
Power Member
 
Sep 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by superpacman View Post
lets stick to the original question, because you are going off into some weirdo different then normal lifestyle. Of course not everyone is going to agree on what is better, because each person lifestyle is different.

You asked:
"Why isn't in the same league? What can the PC-12 do that the F-12 isn't capable of?".

and it was answered, then you want to try and use a scenario that possibly would make the f-12 a better buy.

The question wasn't which is a better buy, but "Why isn't in the same league?", and answered with "f-12 cannot get below 25hz and sound good", there would be distortion. Getting into/below 20hz is in a different league then simply 25 or 30hz.

As you pointing out in another reply, "that the F-12 isn't capable of", Again, the thing cannot get down into the lower hz. That alone tells me and others, that it isn't in the same league.
I'm thinking, based upon your responses, I could have done a better job of framing the question. I wasn't really trying to get you list products specs, I could have gone to SVS's and Bic America's websites respectively and got those specs myself.

I guess what I was really asking is why you do think the PC-12 is another league, based your real world experience and not what's on a spec sheet.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 10:34 PM   #17594
Billy13 Billy13 is offline
Blu-ray Count
 
Billy13's Avatar
 
Mar 2013
Somewhere Between Heaven ↑ & Hell ↓ ......
436
115
63
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badas View Post
Love that add. My SVS's seem like that. They sit there and growl. Never complain. When masses of bass come on they just give a cheeky grin as ya whole world rattles.
No doubt. Watched the new Transformers last night, and there were a few scenes that made the sofa feel as if were were coming off of it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 10:46 PM   #17595
Billy13 Billy13 is offline
Blu-ray Count
 
Billy13's Avatar
 
Mar 2013
Somewhere Between Heaven ↑ & Hell ↓ ......
436
115
63
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post
I'm thinking, based upon your responses, I could have done a better job of framing the question. I wasn't really trying to get you list products specs, I could have gone to SVS's . d Bic America's websites respectively and got those specs myself.

I guess what I was really asking is you do think the PC-12 is another league, based your real world experience and not what's on a spec sheet.
I'll answer you. because if that PC-12 is anything like either of my two PC subwoofers, there's a world of difference between the two. I've heard the BIC, and It's a decent sub no doubt, but it's alot like my sub in my bedroom, there is such a limit to how hard the BIC sub will work for you. If you want to actually feel as if you're IN the movie, the BIC falls way short. It SOUNDS pretty good, but like someone mentioned, it's nothing below 30hz, like nothing worth caring about anyways. The SVS is going to be ridiculous below 30, with ALOT of spl going on. Like I said, and someone else said, no comparison.

For music however, I think the BIC performs well. Both of my PC's play well, but only for music with alot of low frequency beats. I actually prefer my sub in the bedroom over the SVS for music, UNLESS I'm listening to hip hop, dubstep, rap....you get where I'm going. The PC's imo are not made for most music, besides what I mentioned, then they kill it.

And there you have MY
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 12:30 AM   #17596
HHX HHX is offline
Expert Member
 
Oct 2008
1
2
Default

just my 2 cents here after reading all this F-12 vs PC talk, I own the F-12 and an older SVS PC-Ultra (12" driver, Bash amp), without specs and numbers and such - you can just feel the PC in a whole different way... it SLAMS you in the ribs at times... it makes you feel like your walls are cracking (at 1/2 volume max in my room). The F-12, positioned in the same place as my PC, I hear it, it provides good amount of bass.... but i never feel it the same way, just lacks that "authority" and "slam". Thats my 'real world' comparison, if it helps.
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
Billy13 (10-16-2014)
Old 10-16-2014, 12:49 AM   #17597
Billy13 Billy13 is offline
Blu-ray Count
 
Billy13's Avatar
 
Mar 2013
Somewhere Between Heaven ↑ & Hell ↓ ......
436
115
63
Thumbs up Straight from the.....owner's mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by HHX View Post
just my 2 cents here after reading all this F-12 vs PC talk, I own the F-12 and an older SVS PC-Ultra (12" driver, Bash amp), without specs and numbers and such - you can just feel the PC in a whole different way... it SLAMS you in the ribs at times... it makes you feel like your walls are cracking (at 1/2 volume max in my room). The F-12, positioned in the same place as my PC, I hear it, it provides good amount of bass.... but i never feel it the same way, just lacks that "authority" and "slam". Thats my 'real world' comparison, if it helps.

Most excellent real world comparison!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 01:10 AM   #17598
Spaulding Spaulding is offline
Banned
 
Aug 2007
Utah
69
270
Default

The Bic (Acoustech) PL-200 is a more powerful sub than the F-12, 150 watts vs 250 watts rms and 460 vs 1000 peak. And it would take over 3 PL-200 subs to equal the PC-12nsd @20hz.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 06:59 AM   #17599
Badas Badas is offline
Blu-ray Knight
 
Badas's Avatar
 
Aug 2008
LOTR Auckland, New Zealand (Down Under)
134
85
1382
16
11
10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HHX View Post
just my 2 cents here after reading all this F-12 vs PC talk, I own the F-12 and an older SVS PC-Ultra (12" driver, Bash amp), without specs and numbers and such - you can just feel the PC in a whole different way... it SLAMS you in the ribs at times... it makes you feel like your walls are cracking (at 1/2 volume max in my room). The F-12, positioned in the same place as my PC, I hear it, it provides good amount of bass.... but i never feel it the same way, just lacks that "authority" and "slam". Thats my 'real world' comparison, if it helps.
Yeah that is what I've been trying to explain about the SVS subs. There seems to be a pressure wave force come from them.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2014, 03:23 PM   #17600
Spurrier Sucks Spurrier Sucks is offline
Blu-ray Knight
 
Spurrier Sucks's Avatar
 
Dec 2009
Upstate SC
100
281
82
4
Default

Posted my PB12 Plus in the classified section. Great sub but it's time for a change.
  Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Subwoofers

Similar Threads
thread Forum Thread Starter Replies Last Post
The Official Klipsch Subwoofer Owners Thread Subwoofers Big Daddy 228 05-18-2022 01:37 AM
The Official Velodyne Subwoofer Owners Thread Subwoofers Big Daddy 316 07-16-2020 10:23 AM
The Official Sunfire Subwoofer Owners Thread Subwoofers Big Daddy 51 07-04-2018 06:02 PM
The Official Epik Subwoofer Owners Thread Subwoofers Big Daddy 1035 09-19-2015 08:56 AM
The Official AV123 Subwoofer Owners Thread Subwoofers Big Daddy 475 05-23-2014 10:29 AM


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:05 PM.