The Official SVS Subwoofer Owners Thread

[schan1269]

Multiple subs doesn't "better the bass".

It evens out room issues. Not the same thing.

[superpacman]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

Well I guess it depends on one's individual needs. For example, if you're a music buff, the supposed advantages of the PC-12 would be wasted. Or if you have small room where extra watts are not really needed for music or movies to fill the room with sound at reason db levels.

As for movies vs music, you do realize that an infinitesimal amount of movies are mixed with information below 25 hz.

Also, two F12's could be a better purchase than one PC12, as two of them are still cheaper than one PC12 and you get the advantage that comes with better bass from multiple subs.

Well, your original question was "Why isn't in the same league? What can the PC-12 do that the F-12 isn't capable of?".

An explanation given explained why it wasn’t in the same league, and what the PC12 can do that the other could not.

Now you are going someone else with it, and if we followed along with your thinking, you are still wrong on all accounts.

A true music buff will not use a subwoofer, but they will use a simple 2 channel setup, and I’m pretty sure the left and right speaker will be able to handle the hz from music. So, both subs would be wasted.

Originally Posted by Auditor55

As for movies vs music, you do realize that an infinitesimal amount of movies are mixed with information below 25 hz.

To answer this one, I will go with an old saying, It’s better to have it, and not use it, then to wish you had and can’t. Again, the PC12 can handle that.

You have a misconception to multiple subs in a room. Having multiple subs does not give you better bass, having multiple subs will give you even bass across the room. Although having (2)bics still will not give you the quality of LFE necessary for movies that DO go down to 20hz

[cchunter]

My RF7II's sound great for two channel music but throw in the SB13 Ultra and it's just simply better. Then again I must not be a TRUE Music Buff because I use a sub when listening to music.

[kesando]

Introducing the new PC-2000

http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/cylinder/pc-2000

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by schan1269

Multiple subs doesn't "better the bass".

It evens out room issues. Not the same thing.

That, in my opinion, equates to better bass, most experts would agree that opinion.

[schan1269]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

That, in my opinion, equates to better bass, most experts would agree that opinion.

Splitting hairs based on the misconception of the originator, here, of the topic.

Two BIC F12 are nowhere near 1 sub that costs more than twice what two F12 do together.

My first sub was Goliath. My oldest sub is a 2nd generation M&K.

[Auditor55]

Well, your original question was "Why isn't in the same league? What can the PC-12 do that the F-12 isn't capable of?".

Well "in the same league or not in same league" is a cute metaphor, which is kind of subjective and often times pejorative. I guess what I was asking, which I tried to get you to explain when I used the word "capable" was for practical applications in a particular home theater/music environment, what makes the F12 not in the same league.

An explanation given explained why it wasn’t in the same league, and what the PC12 can do that the other could not.

You gave me raw specs, I guess it's my fault that I didn't do a better job of framing the question. If I can make analogy in display technology, are 1080p flat panel display's not in the same league as 4K display, just based on the fact that a 4k display has twice the resolution? Based on the raw specs it would seem so, however for practical applications in a particular home theater environment, it might not so.

Now you are going someone else with it, and if we followed along with your thinking, you are still wrong on all accounts.

A true music buff will not use a subwoofer, but they will use a simple 2 channel setup, and I’m pretty sure the left and right speaker will be able to handle the hz from music. So, both subs would be wasted.

Surely a music buff will incorporate a sub or subs, where have you been? I will agree that some so-called audiophiles probably wouldn't use a sub in a music audio system, however music buff and audiophile isn't exactly the same thing. Some audiophile still believe that vinyl sounds better than CD. Even among some so-called audiophiles that paradigm is changing as they learn to evolve.

To answer this one, I will go with an old saying, It’s better to have it, and not use it, then to wish you had and can’t. Again, the PC12 can handle that.

That would make sense if you didn't pay a premium for something you are not going to use or need.

You have a misconception to multiple subs in a room. Having multiple subs does not give you better bass, having multiple subs will give you even bass across the room. Although having (2)bics still will not give you the quality of LFE necessary for movies that DO go down to 20hz

Even bass is better bass. Why would you want to have a room where you can hear and feel bass in one part of the room and not in the other?

This is just my opinion, but even distribution of bass in a room should be the goal of every enthusiast over watts, output or ULF.

[schan1269]

Missing the point. Once you are below 30hz(trust me, 30hz from a sub with an f3 of 25, vs one with an f3 of 20...the immense)...you only need one subwoofer.

In my theatres the main 4/6 are all capable of 40hz. My subs in each case only perform what they are intended to do.

By the way...I dont prescribe to the 80hz "myth".

Watch The Guillotines sometime with crossovers set 100, 80 and 40. Assuming your other speakers are capable of 40hz. Center channel is rarely loaded with under 100hz.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by schan1269

Splitting hairs based on the misconception of the originator, here, of the topic.

Two BIC F12 are nowhere near 1 sub that costs more than twice what two F12 do together.

My first sub was Goliath. My oldest sub is a 2nd generation M&K.

I was just responding to the metaphor "Not in the same league". I was trying get that claim substantiated as it pertains to the PC-NSD v. F12.

The opinion you've given me above, for practical purposes, doesn't really substantiate that claim.

[superpacman]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

[Show spoiler] Well "in the same league or not in same league" is a cute metaphor, which is kind of subjective and often times pejorative. I guess what I was asking, which I tried to get you to explain when I used the word "capable" was for practical applications in a particular home theater/music environment, what makes the F12 not in the same league.



You gave me raw specs, I guess it's my fault that I didn't do a better job of framing the question. If I can make analogy in display technology, are 1080p flat panel display's not in the same league as 4K display, just based on the fact that a 4k display has twice the resolution? Based on the raw specs it would seem so, however for practical applications in a particular home theater environment, it might not so.



Surely a music buff will incorporate a sub or subs, where have you been? I will agree that some so-called audiophiles probably wouldn't use a sub in a music audio system, however music buff and audiophile isn't exactly the same thing. Some audiophile still believe that vinyl sounds better than CD. Even among some so-called audiophiles that paradigm is changing as they learn to evolve.





That would make sense if you didn't pay a premium for something you are not going to use or need.



Even bass is better bass. Why would you want to have a room where you can hear and feel bass in one part of the room and not in the other?

This is just my opinion, but even distribution of bass in a room should be the goal of every enthusiast over watts, output or ULF

.

lets stick to the original question, because you are going off into some weirdo different then normal lifestyle. Of course not everyone is going to agree on what is better, because each person lifestyle is different.

You asked:
"Why isn't in the same league? What can the PC-12 do that the F-12 isn't capable of?".

and it was answered, then you want to try and use a scenario that possibly would make the f-12 a better buy.

The question wasn't which is a better buy, but "Why isn't in the same league?", and answered with "f-12 cannot get below 25hz and sound good", there would be distortion. Getting into/below 20hz is in a different league then simply 25 or 30hz.

As you pointing out in another reply, "that the F-12 isn't capable of", Again, the thing cannot get down into the lower hz. That alone tells me and others, that it isn't in the same league.

[Billy13]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

Why isn't in the same league? What can the PC-12 do that the F-12 isn't capable of?

http://youtu.be/v5VxX_9IfS8

[Badas]

Originally Posted by Billy13

http://youtu.be/v5VxX_9IfS8

Love that add. My SVS's seem like that. They sit there and growl. Never complain. When masses of bass come on they just give a cheeky grin as ya whole world rattles.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by superpacman

lets stick to the original question, because you are going off into some weirdo different then normal lifestyle. Of course not everyone is going to agree on what is better, because each person lifestyle is different.

You asked:
"Why isn't in the same league? What can the PC-12 do that the F-12 isn't capable of?".

and it was answered, then you want to try and use a scenario that possibly would make the f-12 a better buy.

The question wasn't which is a better buy, but "Why isn't in the same league?", and answered with "f-12 cannot get below 25hz and sound good", there would be distortion. Getting into/below 20hz is in a different league then simply 25 or 30hz.

As you pointing out in another reply, "that the F-12 isn't capable of", Again, the thing cannot get down into the lower hz. That alone tells me and others, that it isn't in the same league.

I'm thinking, based upon your responses, I could have done a better job of framing the question. I wasn't really trying to get you list products specs, I could have gone to SVS's and Bic America's websites respectively and got those specs myself.

I guess what I was really asking is why you do think the PC-12 is another league, based your real world experience and not what's on a spec sheet.

[Billy13]

Originally Posted by Badas

Love that add. My SVS's seem like that. They sit there and growl. Never complain. When masses of bass come on they just give a cheeky grin as ya whole world rattles.

No doubt. Watched the new Transformers last night, and there were a few scenes that made the sofa feel as if were were coming off of it.

[Billy13]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

I'm thinking, based upon your responses, I could have done a better job of framing the question. I wasn't really trying to get you list products specs, I could have gone to SVS's . d Bic America's websites respectively and got those specs myself.

I guess what I was really asking is you do think the PC-12 is another league, based your real world experience and not what's on a spec sheet.

I'll answer you. because if that PC-12 is anything like either of my two PC subwoofers, there's a world of difference between the two. I've heard the BIC, and It's a decent sub no doubt, but it's alot like my sub in my bedroom, there is such a limit to how hard the BIC sub will work for you. If you want to actually feel as if you're IN the movie, the BIC falls way short. It SOUNDS pretty good, but like someone mentioned, it's nothing below 30hz, like nothing worth caring about anyways. The SVS is going to be ridiculous below 30, with ALOT of spl going on. Like I said, and someone else said, no comparison.

For music however, I think the BIC performs well. Both of my PC's play well, but only for music with alot of low frequency beats. I actually prefer my sub in the bedroom over the SVS for music, UNLESS I'm listening to hip hop, dubstep, rap....you get where I'm going. The PC's imo are not made for most music, besides what I mentioned, then they kill it.

And there you have MY

[HHX]

just my 2 cents here after reading all this F-12 vs PC talk, I own the F-12 and an older SVS PC-Ultra (12" driver, Bash amp), without specs and numbers and such - you can just feel the PC in a whole different way... it SLAMS you in the ribs at times... it makes you feel like your walls are cracking (at 1/2 volume max in my room). The F-12, positioned in the same place as my PC, I hear it, it provides good amount of bass.... but i never feel it the same way, just lacks that "authority" and "slam". Thats my 'real world' comparison, if it helps.

[Billy13]

Originally Posted by HHX

just my 2 cents here after reading all this F-12 vs PC talk, I own the F-12 and an older SVS PC-Ultra (12" driver, Bash amp), without specs and numbers and such - you can just feel the PC in a whole different way... it SLAMS you in the ribs at times... it makes you feel like your walls are cracking (at 1/2 volume max in my room). The F-12, positioned in the same place as my PC, I hear it, it provides good amount of bass.... but i never feel it the same way, just lacks that "authority" and "slam". Thats my 'real world' comparison, if it helps.

Most excellent real world comparison!

[Spaulding]

The Bic (Acoustech) PL-200 is a more powerful sub than the F-12, 150 watts vs 250 watts rms and 460 vs 1000 peak. And it would take over 3 PL-200 subs to equal the PC-12nsd @20hz.

[Badas]

Originally Posted by HHX

just my 2 cents here after reading all this F-12 vs PC talk, I own the F-12 and an older SVS PC-Ultra (12" driver, Bash amp), without specs and numbers and such - you can just feel the PC in a whole different way... it SLAMS you in the ribs at times... it makes you feel like your walls are cracking (at 1/2 volume max in my room). The F-12, positioned in the same place as my PC, I hear it, it provides good amount of bass.... but i never feel it the same way, just lacks that "authority" and "slam". Thats my 'real world' comparison, if it helps.

Yeah that is what I've been trying to explain about the SVS subs. There seems to be a pressure wave force come from them.

[Spurrier Sucks]

Posted my PB12 Plus in the classified section. Great sub but it's time for a change.