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Old 04-24-2017, 10:27 AM   #41
Pecker Pecker is offline
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Jun 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murch13 View Post
Here is the original Video watchdog article which alerted me to the issues with the current release (specifically this article is referring to the paramount dvd, not the Scorsese restoration, but the Scorsese restoration only restored 2 1/2 shots back into the opening scene, and actually put in an even longer version of Harmonica rising.)

https://imgur.com/a/2DqWW

Here are the differences between the previous Paramount DVD and the Scorsese restoration BLU:

The Scorsese adds just two shots to the opening (before rising) and extends a third. After the train has arrived and the train guy throws the parcel off, there are a few shots, then Woody Strode smiles over at Jack Elam.

1. There is a NEW shot of Jack Elam smiling back
2. then a NEW shot of him drumming on his gun. A FLY buzzes around his hand. In the italian version we HEAR a fly buzz on this shot, here it's not there (or not as prevalent).
3. It then cuts back to the C.U. shot of Elam where he leaves frame although the beginning of that is EXTENDED and has him shaking his head before he motions to leave with a tilt of his head (and then leaves frame as in the Paramount DVD).

This is similar to a sequence of shots in the extended Italian version except the long Italian version has an extra shot of the train, then an extra shot of Elam (before the holster tapping shot) in between those 3 shots.

The RISING scene now has a couple extended shots.

4. When Harmonica brings his arm over to sling it, the beginning of that shot is now extended to show him moving parts of his jacket around first.
5. The last shot of the scene is also extended -he puts his gun in the bag and then the extended shot holds on his boots walking off frame (the U.S. cut ends with him picking up his bag)

This is exactly how the rising scene plays out in the extended italian cut.

6. Just before the the CU shot of the father at the well, the daughter turns to react to the cicadas going quiet - her reaction is a second longer in the Scorsese cut (this seems odd but I checked it multiple times) The Italian extended cut also has the extra second.
7. Paramount logo comes up 2 or 3 seconds later at the end of the Scorsese cut

So really we got :19 seconds of new footage, not :39 as claimed. Why that particular :19 seconds was chosen is a mystery to me.

The Scorsese cut also fixes (removes) the title overlap of "a sergio leone film" onto the shot of woody strode in the existing paramount dvd version.

Some good points about the rising scene made on the Sergio Leone web board, by a member who grew up watching versions of the film without it:

Without the Rising scene you don't know what had exactly happened as it seems that all 4 which were introduced to us are dead or could be dead. And remember that at the end of the 2nd scene the whole McBain family, to which we were introduced for several minutes, got shot too. It is very daring and irritating that you don't know for over 20 min what had happened to Harmonica, and for even a much longer time what the film could be about.

Without the Rising scene the moment of Harmonica's 2nd appearance in the film which reveals that he is still alive (remember Bronson wasn't a star back then) is much more fascinating. When you for so long don't know what happened in the first scene the eerie Harmonica sound out of the dark and the thrown lamp which brings his face into the light is much more effective.

Believe me, if you have seen and enjoyed OUTW for 20 years without the Rising scene, it is very disappointing to see it now in. It destroys some of the greatness of the long and slow beginning. Somehow the including of this scene really bugs me.
Especially that I'm meanwhile very sure that it was never part of the original theatrical versions, and it is only there because Paramount made some mistakes, and because if once a scene becomes part of a film, it seems impossible to get rid of it again.


So why did Scorsese make this mistake and include the rising scene? First we look at some translations of Leone interviews:

Leone interview in Diego Gabutti's "C'era una volta in America" (page 37) , when he talks about OUTITW: "People very often ask me whether my personal print of the movie contains scenes which had not been added in the final theatrical release" he said grinning "You see? It's like everybody wants me to add a little piece to it..!"
But I think the definite answer about missing scenes in OUTITW is in Franco Ferrini's book "L'antiwestern e il caso Leone" published in 1971. There is a part of an interview with Leone dedicated to cuts and missing scenes of all his westerns, and concerning OUTITW Leone says (page 42): "The scene with the laundry owner's wife and the sheriff is missing, another one in the barbershop, which was particularly funny" The interviewer then asks about the massacre scene (Morton's train) and Leone says: "No, that one I left out on purpose, it was more important to show the result rather than how it happened".
On page 43 Ferrini writes: "It should be kept in mind that Leone's personal print is slightly longer than the theatrical release. It has two scenes which were not added. The first one showing Harmonica rising after being wounded at the train station. This scene was not in the original script and we publish now the description based on Leone's personal print. The second one is about Brett McBains hunting scene with his son Timmy; it's much longer and detailed compaired to the commercial release.

Now we look at an interview with Scorsese - where he says Leone gave him his personal print of the film:

When did you meet Sergio Leone for the first time?

It was at Cannes in 1976, during a dinner at the Oasis, the year when Taxi Driver was competing. There was Costa-Gavras, Sergio Leone, both members of the jury, I, Robert De Niro, Paul Schrader, the screenwriter of Taxi Driver, Jodie Foster, Michael and Julia Phillips, producers of the film. Paul Schrader had toasted Leone to thank him for having toured with Once Upon a Time in the West one of the greatest westerns in cinematic history. We had arrived two days earlier in Cannes and depression we had earned. Tennessee Williams, the jury foreman, told the press he did not like at all Taxi Driver, he was too violent. At dinner, Sergio Leone and Costa-Gavras told us they liked the film. We thought Taxi Driver could still win a prize, perhaps for his screenplay, or its actors. But it took the Palme d'Or! And that is thanks to Sergio Leone.

How has your relationship with him?

I lived partly in Rome between 1978 and 1981. I saw him regularly. Particularly at a luncheon at his home December 31, 1979. I met his wife, his family, met the set designer Dante Ferretti, with whom I will work later on The Age of Innocence, Casino, Kundun, Gangs of New York, Aviator and Hugo Cabret. He knew how much I loved Once Upon a Time in the West, he gave me his copy of the film. It is this copy that I projected in 1980 Film Festival in New York. It was the first time I spoke publicly about the crucial issue of the preservation of films, and more specifically the question of color, which happens if the coils are not kept properly. When Sergio Leone came to New York, I offered to come to dinner with my parents who still lived on the Lower East Side in a building without elevator. We went with Elio Petri (the director of The Working Class Goes to Heaven, Golden Palm at Cannes in 1972). He especially liked the Sicilian cooking from my mother, very different from Roman cuisine to which he was accustomed. And my mother was sensitive to his knife and fork!


So it is fair to assume, Scorsese was working under the assumption that his print was the correct version since it was given to him by Leone, but as we can see it was not the theatrical release.
Great research. Great knowledge.

But having read all of that, it makes you feel you'd like to have the film that Leone had for his print, as opposed to what was released theatrically.

There must be some reason he kept his own print in this format, and why it's the one he let Scorsee see.
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:06 AM   #42
murch13 murch13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pecker View Post
Great research. Great knowledge.

But having read all of that, it makes you feel you'd like to have the film that Leone had for his print, as opposed to what was released theatrically.

There must be some reason he kept his own print in this format, and why it's the one he let Scorsee see.
But now we have some sort of weird "hybrid" of both since the restoration doesn't include the longer hunting scene (and its unknown what the opening scene was cut like on Leone's print, but I doubt it included only 14 seconds of the 70 seconds missing from the theatrical cut). The ending music is still wrong (I doubt Leone's print harshly fades out morricone's score halfway through the last shot and starts playing the exit music early- neither the 35mm German print nor the Italian vhs end this way). So the version on blu isn't the theatrical cut, nor is it Leone's personal cut. And now this "hybrid" version is going to persist worldwide. Similar to the Star Wars special editions...history is being rewritten, but this time it's not the director doing so.

Last edited by murch13; 04-24-2017 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 04-24-2017, 09:22 PM   #43
eurospec19 eurospec19 is offline
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Yet another Leone masterpiece that requires fixing. Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge, murch13.
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Old 04-28-2017, 09:11 AM   #44
TheHutt TheHutt is online now
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Well, and here is another one of the new Leone Group releases: "Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo".

Here the BD info:

Code:
                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
00002.MPLS                                                      AVC     2:54:29 43.099.379.712  43.671.561.959  32,93   25,99   DTS-HD Master 5.1 3009Kbps (48kHz/24-bit) DTS-HD Master 2.0 2030Kbps (48kHz/24-bit)
Code:
DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     IL BUONO IL BRUTTO IL CATTIVO
Disc Size:      43.671.561.959 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BD-Java:        No
BDInfo:         0.5.8

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00002.MPLS
Length:                 2:54:29.208 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   43.099.379.712 bytes
Total Bitrate:          32,93 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        25988 kbps          1080p / 24 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD Master Audio             Italian         3009 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz / 3009 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
DTS-HD Master Audio             Italian         2030 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz / 2030 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 2.0 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           Italian         15,987 kbps                     

FILES:

Name            Time In         Length          Size            Total Bitrate   
----            -------         ------          ----            -------------   
00006.M2TS      0:00:00.000     0:00:17.125     67.977.216      31.756          
00002.M2TS      0:00:17.125     2:54:12.083     43.031.402.496  32.936          

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time In         Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          -------         ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:03:18.083     20.579 kbps     34.690 kbps     00:02:57.416    28.628 kbps     00:00:00.124    28.380 kbps     00:00:02.083    107.158 bytes   504.389 bytes   00:02:58.291    
2               0:03:18.083     0:12:07.333     23.926 kbps     32.212 kbps     00:05:58.791    30.674 kbps     00:06:17.125    29.559 kbps     00:06:11.874    124.616 bytes   292.828 bytes   00:05:33.916    
3               0:15:25.416     0:12:43.416     25.445 kbps     32.838 kbps     00:17:58.958    31.961 kbps     00:27:40.833    31.786 kbps     00:27:40.708    132.524 bytes   353.937 bytes   00:19:49.041    
4               0:28:08.833     0:10:28.291     27.068 kbps     33.317 kbps     00:32:38.583    31.945 kbps     00:33:01.458    31.964 kbps     00:32:31.583    140.980 bytes   359.745 bytes   00:32:38.625    
5               0:38:37.125     0:08:03.625     25.343 kbps     32.621 kbps     00:42:59.791    31.740 kbps     00:41:44.916    31.106 kbps     00:41:41.291    131.992 bytes   322.363 bytes   00:46:40.750    
6               0:46:40.750     0:06:27.291     25.901 kbps     33.188 kbps     00:52:31.416    31.993 kbps     00:52:24.666    31.784 kbps     00:52:26.416    134.901 bytes   366.809 bytes   00:52:38.458    
7               0:53:08.041     0:08:42.750     27.240 kbps     33.375 kbps     00:55:00.375    30.946 kbps     00:54:58.125    29.919 kbps     00:54:56.875    141.875 bytes   388.072 bytes   00:55:03.958    
8               1:01:50.791     0:08:44.916     27.313 kbps     32.783 kbps     01:03:57.541    32.009 kbps     01:03:53.833    31.846 kbps     01:03:48.541    142.253 bytes   317.618 bytes   01:03:32.833    
9               1:10:35.708     0:09:36.750     23.143 kbps     31.686 kbps     01:12:37.125    30.202 kbps     01:12:53.666    29.928 kbps     01:12:49.625    120.538 bytes   326.927 bytes   01:13:01.666    
10              1:20:12.458     0:06:56.541     25.640 kbps     31.714 kbps     01:24:15.833    30.376 kbps     01:24:14.375    30.070 kbps     01:24:13.833    133.542 bytes   294.980 bytes   01:24:09.875    
11              1:27:09.000     0:08:13.625     24.741 kbps     32.728 kbps     01:27:14.083    31.909 kbps     01:27:10.125    29.974 kbps     01:27:09.000    128.862 bytes   329.131 bytes   01:29:32.750    
12              1:35:22.625     0:08:29.333     25.971 kbps     32.789 kbps     01:41:54.083    30.974 kbps     01:41:42.083    29.538 kbps     01:42:42.625    135.266 bytes   291.876 bytes   01:39:49.333    
13              1:43:51.958     0:09:54.041     26.441 kbps     33.495 kbps     01:52:26.083    32.026 kbps     01:53:07.958    31.544 kbps     01:45:44.583    137.713 bytes   382.992 bytes   01:52:16.500    
14              1:53:46.000     0:09:04.208     24.833 kbps     30.988 kbps     01:56:07.416    29.728 kbps     01:56:06.333    29.199 kbps     01:54:56.958    129.340 bytes   269.559 bytes   01:54:11.541    
15              2:02:50.208     0:08:57.666     26.990 kbps     33.199 kbps     02:11:44.666    32.054 kbps     02:11:34.916    31.956 kbps     02:11:36.041    140.575 bytes   362.772 bytes   02:09:03.916    
16              2:11:47.875     0:08:51.291     30.264 kbps     33.222 kbps     02:16:59.916    32.054 kbps     02:17:31.916    31.941 kbps     02:17:03.625    157.625 bytes   334.611 bytes   02:16:16.375    
17              2:20:39.166     0:08:20.166     27.659 kbps     33.002 kbps     02:23:23.666    32.054 kbps     02:22:39.708    31.910 kbps     02:22:39.666    144.056 bytes   333.330 bytes   02:27:28.041    
18              2:28:59.333     0:07:18.791     26.293 kbps     32.775 kbps     02:32:10.041    31.806 kbps     02:35:53.333    31.705 kbps     02:35:48.333    136.942 bytes   382.587 bytes   02:35:19.708    
19              2:36:18.125     0:09:23.958     26.169 kbps     32.805 kbps     02:45:25.791    31.100 kbps     02:37:13.833    30.210 kbps     02:45:04.458    136.299 bytes   382.448 bytes   02:45:25.833    
20              2:45:42.083     0:08:31.875     26.551 kbps     32.641 kbps     02:47:56.708    31.341 kbps     02:46:52.083    30.216 kbps     02:52:23.291    138.284 bytes   401.846 bytes   02:52:51.500    
21              2:54:13.958     0:00:15.250     19.393 kbps     31.380 kbps     02:54:21.708    29.418 kbps     02:54:17.833    27.630 kbps     02:54:13.958    101.281 bytes   350.975 bytes   02:54:23.708    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Codec           Language                Seconds                 Bitrate                 Bytes           Packets         
----            ---             ----            -----           --------                --------------          --------------          -------------   -----           
00006.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x1B            AVC                                     17,000                  28.206                  59.937.507      325.981         
00006.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x86            DTS-HD MA       ita (Italian)           17,000                  2.160                   4.589.464       27.462          
00002.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x1B            AVC                                     10451,917               25.985                  33.948.969.772  184.651.406     
00002.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x86            DTS-HD MA       ita (Italian)           10451,917               3.011                   3.933.679.660   23.006.253      
00002.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x86            DTS-HD MA       ita (Italian)           10451,917               2.033                   2.656.274.292   15.991.569      
00002.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            PGS             ita (Italian)           10451,917               16                      20.922.004      122.432
And here the screenshot comparison (old Mondo vs new Leone Group).
The frames are corresponding to the Caps-a-holic comparison: http://caps-a-holic.com/c_list.php?c=1687

Here the comparison:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/208197
(Sorry, Frame 2 is wrong)

The new transfer is softer and... yellower.

Last edited by TheHutt; 04-28-2017 at 09:17 AM.
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Thanks given by:
murch13 (04-28-2017), UpsetSmiley (03-01-2019), Vakulinchuk (08-14-2017)
Old 04-28-2017, 11:15 AM   #45
murch13 murch13 is offline
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Jun 2014
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So they just took the old 2007/2009 mondo master and added yellow instead of using the newer mgm4k resto as a starting point? And then because they modified it, somehow they lost a "generation" and ended up rerendering a softer image. Wow, yet another home video insult to the film. Can you post more caps please? Also, there is a shot during the scene where Tuco is shot off his horse near the beginning of the film (just before we are introduced to blondie), where he's reaching for his gun and the frame registration goes off and the shot jumps halfway up the screen (on the mondo blu). Is this still present in the new blu?

Last edited by murch13; 04-28-2017 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 04-28-2017, 12:30 PM   #46
TheHutt TheHutt is online now
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Looks like it's the same master. The restoration credits at the beginning are the same as on the Mondo.
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Old 04-28-2017, 03:06 PM   #47
Dan8700 Dan8700 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHutt View Post
Here the comparison:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/208197
(Sorry, Frame 2 is wrong)

The new transfer is softer and... yellower.
Quite awful... it's the dated Mondo master with a yellow tint and much softer... what source (or kind of process) did they use???? And obviously, it's cut like the Mondo. This release shouldn't even be legal...
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Old 04-29-2017, 04:01 PM   #48
TheHutt TheHutt is online now
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The next candidate, "Giú la testa", the second installment of the "Once Upon a Time" trilogy by Leone. So far, the HD releases of this title were of rather strange quality. The Italian BluRay by 01 Distribution (and its Spanish analogue) were too hard in contrast and had a rather bleached color palette. The MGM version is zoomed in and rather grainy.

So I was wondering what the new Leone Film Group release had to offer.

Here the BDinfo.

Code:
                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
00002.MPLS                                                      AVC     2:37:34 40.345.780.224  41.097.703.345  34,14   27,99   DTS-HD Master 2.0 2125Kbps (48kHz/24-bit)
Code:
DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     GIU LA TESTA
Disc Size:      41.097.703.345 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BD-Java:        No
BDInfo:         0.5.8

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00002.MPLS
Length:                 2:37:34.791 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   40.345.780.224 bytes
Total Bitrate:          34,14 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        27991 kbps          1080p / 24 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD Master Audio             Italian         2125 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz / 2125 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 2.0 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
DTS-HD Master Audio             English         2055 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz / 2055 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 2.0 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           Italian         0,043 kbps                      
Presentation Graphics           Italian         12,616 kbps                     

FILES:

Name            Time In         Length          Size            Total Bitrate   
----            -------         ------          ----            -------------   
00002.M2TS      0:00:00.000     2:37:34.791     40.345.780.224  34.138          

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time In         Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          -------         ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:00:55.541     17.307 kbps     29.177 kbps     00:00:07.958    27.283 kbps     00:00:04.749    25.211 kbps     00:00:02.333    90.074 bytes    284.379 bytes   00:00:04.000    
2               0:00:55.541     0:10:59.041     29.341 kbps     35.700 kbps     00:11:31.791    34.950 kbps     00:07:44.333    34.863 kbps     00:07:41.833    152.818 bytes   301.244 bytes   00:01:24.541    
3               0:11:54.583     0:08:50.375     29.881 kbps     36.384 kbps     00:12:29.708    34.883 kbps     00:12:25.833    34.823 kbps     00:18:07.625    155.630 bytes   313.371 bytes   00:16:17.125    
4               0:20:44.958     0:11:00.833     28.243 kbps     35.837 kbps     00:27:41.374    34.568 kbps     00:27:37.625    34.152 kbps     00:27:37.749    147.101 bytes   335.512 bytes   00:30:54.750    
5               0:31:45.791     0:11:40.625     28.436 kbps     35.955 kbps     00:32:26.916    34.969 kbps     00:39:13.916    34.887 kbps     00:39:13.833    148.103 bytes   359.052 bytes   00:41:34.333    
6               0:43:26.416     0:06:55.250     28.761 kbps     36.391 kbps     00:49:54.666    35.084 kbps     00:43:46.208    34.823 kbps     00:43:45.000    149.796 bytes   292.709 bytes   00:48:47.125    
7               0:50:21.666     0:10:04.125     27.092 kbps     35.706 kbps     00:56:09.750    34.882 kbps     00:56:07.833    34.813 kbps     00:56:02.750    141.106 bytes   282.419 bytes   00:57:14.125    
8               1:00:25.791     0:08:36.791     28.356 kbps     35.480 kbps     01:03:17.208    34.411 kbps     01:01:50.291    33.769 kbps     01:01:46.708    147.689 bytes   281.243 bytes   01:01:24.333    
9               1:09:02.583     0:07:55.500     28.686 kbps     35.829 kbps     01:11:16.041    34.912 kbps     01:11:15.791    34.786 kbps     01:13:31.166    149.404 bytes   270.668 bytes   01:11:58.750    
10              1:16:58.083     0:12:35.416     29.353 kbps     36.073 kbps     01:26:25.583    34.966 kbps     01:26:03.291    34.842 kbps     01:26:49.333    152.880 bytes   342.614 bytes   01:18:45.375    
11              1:29:33.500     0:06:00.958     28.906 kbps     35.677 kbps     01:33:11.416    34.774 kbps     01:32:21.750    33.552 kbps     01:33:06.791    150.551 bytes   325.476 bytes   01:29:39.083    
12              1:35:34.458     0:08:15.458     25.023 kbps     34.989 kbps     01:36:58.458    34.565 kbps     01:36:55.041    34.308 kbps     01:36:49.958    130.327 bytes   243.839 bytes   01:39:18.833    
13              1:43:49.916     0:06:33.083     28.135 kbps     36.103 kbps     01:49:54.208    34.794 kbps     01:49:42.500    33.874 kbps     01:49:39.000    146.534 bytes   244.518 bytes   01:49:10.916    
14              1:50:23.000     0:08:34.875     27.111 kbps     36.045 kbps     01:52:10.083    33.826 kbps     01:52:28.333    32.503 kbps     01:52:43.458    141.203 bytes   314.630 bytes   01:51:32.166    
15              1:58:57.875     0:09:02.041     29.988 kbps     37.411 kbps     02:04:40.208    34.920 kbps     02:02:07.041    34.826 kbps     02:00:53.875    156.186 bytes   277.431 bytes   02:02:04.500    
16              2:07:59.916     0:05:39.375     29.580 kbps     35.834 kbps     02:09:05.541    34.866 kbps     02:08:56.250    34.624 kbps     02:08:05.874    154.063 bytes   261.808 bytes   02:08:53.958    
17              2:13:39.291     0:12:24.666     26.892 kbps     36.661 kbps     02:21:57.875    35.079 kbps     02:21:54.000    34.874 kbps     02:21:48.916    140.063 bytes   249.957 bytes   02:21:54.791    
18              2:26:03.958     0:08:53.041     27.119 kbps     35.311 kbps     02:34:08.500    34.916 kbps     02:34:07.916    34.629 kbps     02:31:01.583    141.244 bytes   269.332 bytes   02:31:14.625    
19              2:34:57.000     0:02:37.791     15.914 kbps     24.898 kbps     02:36:11.875    23.915 kbps     02:36:10.625    23.415 kbps     02:36:09.875    82.910 bytes    233.906 bytes   02:36:11.916    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Codec           Language                Seconds                 Bitrate                 Bytes           Packets         
----            ---             ----            -----           --------                --------------          --------------          -------------   -----           
00002.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x1B            AVC                                     9454,625                27.991                  33.080.804.575  179.918.811     
00002.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x86            DTS-HD MA       ita (Italian)           9454,625                2.125                   2.511.357.164   15.190.914      
00002.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x86            DTS-HD MA       eng (English)           9454,625                2.055                   2.428.203.660   14.620.734      
00002.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            PGS             ita (Italian)           9454,625                0                       50.483          282             
00002.M2TS      4609 (0x1201)   0x90            PGS             ita (Italian)           9454,625                13                      14.910.576      86.759


And here the Screenshot comparison

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/208341/
(matching the https://www.caps-a-holic.com/c_list.php?c=1542)

The picture master is definitely the same, the framing is 100% identical. The treatment is differnent from shot to shot. In the first frame (problematical because of much grain structure) the picture has been denoised. In other frames playing in daylight the contrast has been lowered (pictures 2 and 7). In the night scenes the hard contrast was reduced in some scenes (4 & 5). Still, all pictures are more green-tinted than the previous Italian release.

The last line by Miranda on the English audio track is still in Italian.
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Old 04-29-2017, 09:27 PM   #49
Dan8700 Dan8700 is offline
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Uuh, I have to admit this new Blu looks so much better. Especially regarding contrast (some scenes are unwatchable on the old one). And colours are definitely more correct. Thanks for all your work, mate.
Did you get OUaTitW too? I've never liked the Paramount resto, colours are lifeless and there's no fine grain (it's not even a 2K scan, which is unbelievable since we're speaking of one of the finest movies ever made). But I'm afraid it's the same master...
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Old 04-30-2017, 05:44 AM   #50
TheHutt TheHutt is online now
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Yup, I got all except Colosso. I'm going through them one by one.

PS; how can it not be a 2K scan? You need at least 2K (2048 x 1080px) to scan for FullHD (1920 x 1080px).
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Old 04-30-2017, 04:47 PM   #51
TheHutt TheHutt is online now
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Well,

Now for C'era Una Volta Il West aka Once Upon A Time In The West.

The existing Italian BluRay by 01 Distribution is strangely based on the Paramount master including English credits etc. The new BluRay is no exception for that matter, apart from the Leone Film Group logo it is based on the Paramount version. Italian is contained in dual mono, English in 5.1, both in DTS-HDMA.

BDInfo:

Code:
                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
00002.MPLS                                                      AVC     2:46:05 43.821.225.984  44.521.689.158  35,18   27,99   DTS-HD Master 2.0 1808Kbps (48kHz/24-bit)
Code:
DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     C ERA UNA VOLTA IL WEST
Disc Size:      44.521.689.158 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BD-Java:        No
BDInfo:         0.5.8

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00002.MPLS
Length:                 2:46:05.625 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   43.821.225.984 bytes
Total Bitrate:          35,18 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        27988 kbps          1080p / 24 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD Master Audio             Italian         1808 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz / 1808 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 2.0 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
DTS-HD Master Audio             English         3354 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz / 3354 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           Italian         11,824 kbps                     

FILES:

Name            Time In         Length          Size            Total Bitrate   
----            -------         ------          ----            -------------   
00002.M2TS      0:00:00.000     2:46:05.625     43.821.225.984  35.178          

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time In         Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          -------         ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:00:46.916     19.971 kbps     30.914 kbps     00:00:07.958    29.379 kbps     00:00:04.541    28.406 kbps     00:00:02.458    103.925 bytes   303.380 bytes   00:00:04.000    
2               0:00:46.916     0:08:41.041     29.411 kbps     35.741 kbps     00:03:26.249    31.903 kbps     00:04:16.708    31.888 kbps     00:04:30.208    153.183 bytes   287.540 bytes   00:04:49.000    
3               0:09:27.958     0:06:00.250     29.009 kbps     32.550 kbps     00:10:31.333    31.837 kbps     00:10:00.666    31.503 kbps     00:09:57.375    151.090 bytes   268.321 bytes   00:12:22.500    
4               0:15:28.208     0:10:18.125     29.039 kbps     32.966 kbps     00:16:22.250    32.005 kbps     00:16:18.666    31.903 kbps     00:16:13.625    151.245 bytes   324.043 bytes   00:17:05.166    
5               0:25:46.333     0:10:34.375     29.395 kbps     32.733 kbps     00:31:24.791    31.900 kbps     00:31:53.625    31.798 kbps     00:32:04.541    153.098 bytes   300.018 bytes   00:31:18.833    
6               0:36:20.708     0:10:41.875     27.445 kbps     30.490 kbps     00:42:59.625    29.608 kbps     00:42:52.666    29.294 kbps     00:42:50.625    142.942 bytes   286.100 bytes   00:43:01.625    
7               0:47:02.583     0:12:11.791     27.112 kbps     31.423 kbps     00:48:05.875    30.653 kbps     00:47:03.833    30.454 kbps     00:47:02.583    141.206 bytes   319.209 bytes   00:51:43.125    
8               0:59:14.375     0:07:51.708     26.602 kbps     30.818 kbps     01:03:42.000    29.604 kbps     01:01:19.875    29.069 kbps     01:01:15.875    138.550 bytes   271.120 bytes   01:07:06.083    
9               1:07:06.083     0:08:08.000     27.684 kbps     32.486 kbps     01:11:57.291    31.925 kbps     01:11:53.333    31.253 kbps     01:11:26.208    144.189 bytes   329.025 bytes   01:07:20.708    
10              1:15:14.083     0:06:28.458     27.983 kbps     32.529 kbps     01:19:54.083    31.387 kbps     01:19:12.791    31.105 kbps     01:19:09.541    145.746 bytes   382.607 bytes   01:19:49.750    
11              1:21:42.541     0:08:02.750     28.148 kbps     32.177 kbps     01:29:31.791    31.760 kbps     01:29:30.416    31.505 kbps     01:29:26.291    146.605 bytes   303.482 bytes   01:26:22.500    
12              1:29:45.291     0:09:13.875     27.702 kbps     32.203 kbps     01:30:42.791    30.602 kbps     01:33:34.375    29.947 kbps     01:33:34.375    144.279 bytes   309.037 bytes   01:32:04.916    
13              1:38:59.166     0:09:19.000     26.666 kbps     32.290 kbps     01:39:53.291    31.280 kbps     01:39:51.291    30.569 kbps     01:39:51.041    138.886 bytes   328.948 bytes   01:40:43.125    
14              1:48:18.166     0:09:10.750     27.146 kbps     31.052 kbps     01:57:20.500    30.042 kbps     01:57:19.583    29.630 kbps     01:57:17.625    141.383 bytes   295.931 bytes   01:49:50.083    
15              1:57:28.916     0:07:25.708     28.164 kbps     31.698 kbps     01:58:07.875    31.073 kbps     01:58:07.000    30.830 kbps     01:58:04.833    146.688 bytes   320.942 bytes   02:00:32.125    
16              2:04:54.625     0:10:50.500     28.001 kbps     32.515 kbps     02:08:08.916    31.348 kbps     02:11:59.000    31.059 kbps     02:11:57.999    145.836 bytes   352.119 bytes   02:14:00.208    
17              2:15:45.125     0:07:31.000     27.833 kbps     32.094 kbps     02:20:43.291    30.475 kbps     02:20:42.250    30.256 kbps     02:15:52.083    144.961 bytes   308.939 bytes   02:20:12.000    
18              2:23:16.125     0:08:52.250     28.317 kbps     31.224 kbps     02:24:33.750    30.033 kbps     02:24:32.666    29.611 kbps     02:24:27.958    147.486 bytes   316.477 bytes   02:24:30.791    
19              2:32:08.375     0:05:28.916     25.698 kbps     31.705 kbps     02:37:35.083    30.941 kbps     02:37:32.291    30.293 kbps     02:37:27.250    133.844 bytes   311.034 bytes   02:37:37.291    
20              2:37:37.291     0:06:33.125     30.640 kbps     32.985 kbps     02:42:35.750    32.027 kbps     02:42:31.541    31.917 kbps     02:42:26.666    159.581 bytes   318.184 bytes   02:41:56.750    
21              2:44:10.416     0:01:55.208     30.809 kbps     34.467 kbps     02:46:02.916    31.953 kbps     02:44:51.750    31.902 kbps     02:44:55.291    160.522 bytes   285.202 bytes   02:46:03.791    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Codec           Language                Seconds                 Bitrate                 Bytes           Packets         
----            ---             ----            -----           --------                --------------          --------------          -------------   -----           
00002.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x1B            AVC                                     9965,458                27.989                  34.865.145.573  189.623.758     
00002.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x86            DTS-HD MA       ita (Italian)           9965,458                1.808                   2.252.299.832   13.931.890      
00002.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x86            DTS-HD MA       eng (English)           9965,458                3.354                   4.178.166.164   24.260.367      
00002.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            PGS             ita (Italian)           9965,458                12                      14.729.259      85.659


To the picture.

As already stated, the Italians used once again the Paramount transfer with English credits and all. Still, it is not identical to the existing Italo disc and the Paramount disc.
- The picture is slightly darker (lower gamma) and a little bit redder than the 01 Distribution disc. Also it is slightly less sharp - this can be especially seen in the first picture (texture on the boards of the station floor).

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/208446/
(frames correspond with Caps-A-Holic: http://caps-a-holic.com/c_list.php?c=1543)

BTW, the Italian audio contains the correct end credits music (as opposed to the Cheyenne theme which is used in the English track).
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:25 AM   #52
TarPot1 TarPot1 is offline
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Thanks,The Hutt. I bought Giu La Testa on the back of your comparisons.

I think it looks better than the previous Italian disc. The sound is still an issue. This is noticeable during music. I not sure how to describe it, but it sounds lumpy. Thuddy? Can't think of the word.

Does anyone know how the new Once Upon A Time In America compares to the US disc?
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Old 09-16-2019, 07:12 PM   #53
Braktastic Braktastic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TarPot1 View Post
Does anyone know how the new Once Upon A Time In America compares to the US disc?
https://caps-a-holic.com/c_list.php?c=296
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