PlayStation 6 - Official Thread - Unofficial Information

[jzbadblood]

I was already thinking of selling my PS5, but this topic just solidified my decision. I much prefer playing multiplatform games on my Series X, and as it stands there's not any PS5 exclusives I'm interested in. With them thinking of a Pro model so soon I can't justify holding onto this big hunk of plastic taking up space in my entertainment center. Perhaps I'll grab a slim or Pro in a couple years after the PS5 has a game library.

[Omegaice]

Good luck!

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

Yeah, the internal storage is awful for PS5 1. I have most of my PS5 and PS4 games for PS5 stored on my external hard drive, which has been flawless for a few years now so far. Almost out of memory soon though. Then I just switch the junk games to something else and keep the good games on it.

4K 60 fps is enough, yes.

My main problem is I'm still waiting for game graphics to match CGI trailer graphics. I still remember the first Assassin's Creed Valhalla CGI trailer. Wow, look at what PS5 games could look like. Amazing............. And then the next trailer was the graphics, reminding me of the PS4 but with higher resolution... Not the drastic jump I was expecting, so that's my fault of expectations.

PS1 - Jagged edges, sharp edged, low count polygons, clipping, pop in.
PS2 - Blurry to counter aliasing jagged edges, but improved polygons.
PS3 - Major jump in visuals. 720p to 1080p.
PS4 - Huge increase in polygon counts for lush worlds. 1080p minimum.
PS4 Pro - Increased resolution aiming for 4K. Faster loading, fps at times.
PS5 - 4K 60 fps, fast loading, "Raytracing" reflections. PS4 based visuals. Haptic triggers.

PS5 Pro - Increased storage. More reliable 4K 60 fps. Faster loading.
PS6 - Are we going to get jump closer to CGI Trailer visuals? Doubtful. I think it'll be able to easily handle Matrix Awakens in 4K 60 fps, whereas the PS5 can only display it in 1080p (about) 30 fps tops.

Close to my thinking on graphics. I tend to think console graphics have diminishing returns for a few generations now. Up through the PS3/X360, it was a major leap each generation of consoles, but far less noticeable these last two generations.

[NARMAK]

I think if you go back and play PS3s end of gen games, PS4 end of gen and then when we get to the end, PS5, you always see a good comparison of what devs eventually manage to do when they fully learn to stretch the hardware. If you want an early comparison, usually launch exclusives are a good way to go. Ridge Racer 7 for PS3 or Resistance Fall of Man even, then the PS4 i can't recall exactly what they had as there was a lot of cross gen overlap but for PS5, you got Demon Souls remake to use.

Personally i do think graphics are getting harder and harder to push the envelope on because of how much more power it requires, but the Unreal 5 engine tech with the Matrix Awakens demo and similar stuff is going to eventually change the way hardware resources are allocated because for example, high speed NVMe drives make it possible to have near instantaneous streaming of large data and smart ways of allocating the GPU power to only render the immediate FoV and then settle it down rather than have a massive game world pre-loaded in was a massive shift in the way games are made too.

What i love is that although hardware innovation may be slowing down with diminishing returns, the software tricks developers are using in their engines to switch from the previous generation of mechanical hardware limitations is truly changing the way we will be gaming even with VR.

By the time PS6 releases, we should hopefully have it all in full swing to get a full fat 4K image with high fidelity Ray Tracing at around 60fps and better graphics. Ultimately i want 120hz/144hz to become the ultimate goal for framerates with a very limited emphasis on 8K for very select titles. After all, the advent for tech improvements has to slowly establish itself and show viability for down the line.

[Zivouhr]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

I think if you go back and play PS3s end of gen games, PS4 end of gen and then when we get to the end, PS5, you always see a good comparison of what devs eventually manage to do when they fully learn to stretch the hardware. If you want an early comparison, usually launch exclusives are a good way to go. Ridge Racer 7 for PS3 or Resistance Fall of Man even, then the PS4 i can't recall exactly what they had as there was a lot of cross gen overlap but for PS5, you got Demon Souls remake to use.

Personally i do think graphics are getting harder and harder to push the envelope on because of how much more power it requires, but the Unreal 5 engine tech with the Matrix Awakens demo and similar stuff is going to eventually change the way hardware resources are allocated because for example, high speed NVMe drives make it possible to have near instantaneous streaming of large data and smart ways of allocating the GPU power to only render the immediate FoV and then settle it down rather than have a massive game world pre-loaded in was a massive shift in the way games are made too.

What i love is that although hardware innovation may be slowing down with diminishing returns, the software tricks developers are using in their engines to switch from the previous generation of mechanical hardware limitations is truly changing the way we will be gaming even with VR.

By the time PS6 releases, we should hopefully have it all in full swing to get a full fat 4K image with high fidelity Ray Tracing at around 60fps and better graphics. Ultimately i want 120hz/144hz to become the ultimate goal for framerates with a very limited emphasis on 8K for very select titles. After all, the advent for tech improvements has to slowly establish itself and show viability for down the line.

Which are the standout games per console would be a cool list to see in terms of graphics/performance/achievements for a console.

For PS5, I guess Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart would be a good example, along with Matrix Awakens as really pushing the PS5 to its limits so far anyway. Other games look good, but they also look good on a PS4 too aside from resolution/framerate. Forspoken was specifically made from the ground up for PS5, and most people weren't impressed as its struggles in sales already in 2023. I think it looks good, but it's not ground breaking.

For PS4, Uncharted 4 was about halfway through its lifespan which is still going, and that was an amazing looking game even on PS4 by today's standards. Why that hasn't had a PS5 remaster I don't know.

PS3, Fallout 3 was rough with the textures, but that was an amazing game IMO for gameplay anyway. I guess Gran Turismo was a great example of a higher frame rate and graphics for PS3 pushing the console's power.

PS2, I thought Midnight Club 3 was a cool game and pops into my mind as memorable. GTASA was epic, but didn't push the graphics too far visually.

PS1, Soul Reaver was always a favorite game of mine, along with Driver and a bunch others. Syphon Filter 3 looked good.

As far as fully learning the hardware and tricks, hopefully Sony has made the development kit layout much easier to use than PS3's Cell structure, which many developers, including Bethesda of Fallout 3, said it was a major hassle to develop games for.

At this point, most consoles including PS4, have become much more user friendly in terms of developing of games, along the lines of PCs, so that really shouldn't be a hurdle by this point with PS5.
I hope I'm wrong, but it seems PS5 has already reached a wall in terms of what it can do with 4K 60 fps, as I see many PS5 games struggling to consistently hit those without performance issues like occasional lag, texture updates during gameplay and pop in of all things, for example.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

Which are the standout games per console would be a cool list to see in terms of graphics/performance/achievements for a console.

Perhaps that's a thread for the Gaming General section. I'd totally chime in!

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

Yeah, the internal storage is awful for PS5 1. I have most of my PS5 and PS4 games for PS5 stored on my external hard drive, which has been flawless for a few years now so far. Almost out of memory soon though. Then I just switch the junk games to something else and keep the good games on it.

4K 60 fps is enough, yes.

My main problem is I'm still waiting for game graphics to match CGI trailer graphics. I still remember the first Assassin's Creed Valhalla CGI trailer. Wow, look at what PS5 games could look like. Amazing............. And then the next trailer was the graphics, reminding me of the PS4 but with higher resolution... Not the drastic jump I was expecting, so that's my fault of expectations.

PS1 - Jagged edges, sharp edged, low count polygons, clipping, pop in.
PS2 - Blurry to counter aliasing jagged edges, but improved polygons.
PS3 - Major jump in visuals. 720p to 1080p.
PS4 - Huge increase in polygon counts for lush worlds. 1080p minimum.
PS4 Pro - Increased resolution aiming for 4K. Faster loading, fps at times.
PS5 - 4K 60 fps, fast loading, "Raytracing" reflections. PS4 based visuals. Haptic triggers.

PS5 Pro - Increased storage. More reliable 4K 60 fps. Faster loading.
PS6 - Are we going to get jump closer to CGI Trailer visuals? Doubtful. I think it'll be able to easily handle Matrix Awakens in 4K 60 fps, whereas the PS5 can only display it in 1080p (about) 30 fps tops.

I think they're kind of already there with environments and inanimate objects. The biggest limiting factor is with character models, in particular clothing and hair. Even today, we're still seeing models with "stuck on" clothing and mats of hair that don't move at all or move unrealistically. I understand that properly modeling and animating hair takes an enormous amount of processing power. It will be nice when that breakthrough finally comes.

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

I think they're kind of already there with environments and inanimate objects. The biggest limiting factor is with character models, in particular clothing and hair. Even today, we're still seeing models with "stuck on" clothing and mats of hair that don't move at all or move unrealistically. I understand that properly modeling and animating hair takes an enormous amount of processing power. It will be nice when that breakthrough finally comes.

I definitely think there's a lot of areas like AI, geometry meshes and hair like you mentioned to be worked on because although everybody usually focuses on the obvious shiny big things, our brains are so subconsciously good at picking up on micro irregularities that when developers do have all these little things going on in the game, they definitely make an impact.

Amazing looking characters and then completely wonky motion for example would take you out of things, similar to how at present hair flopping all over weirdly can jolt you out. Take Horizon 2 for example. Aloy has very unwieldy hair at times depending on character movements.

Just as they are figuring out innovative software solutions in game engines to better use the hardware, i feel like cracking things like hair will be done within the next decade or so to be significantly better without a massive performance penalty.

I actually love the innovation Unreal Engine 5 for example is bringing and also the AMD/Nvidia specific software advances for upscaling images, streaming in data etc.

[ResidentEvil7200]

I maybe showing my age (40), but I don't play video games like I used to, because I found other things to get into. If I do play a game, it's either an old Resident Evil, PS 1 Tomb Raider, or PS4 Pinball Arcade, or PS4 Call Of Duty Modern Warfare. Even THAT is once every other blue moon. I rather Resident Evil be CGI movies from now on; at least I can enjoy them that way.

Besides, modern games give me motion sickness and Resident Evil's game controls in the past 12 years has been difficult for someone who was used to 1990s, 2000s controls.

[Zivouhr]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

I think they're kind of already there with environments and inanimate objects. The biggest limiting factor is with character models, in particular clothing and hair. Even today, we're still seeing models with "stuck on" clothing and mats of hair that don't move at all or move unrealistically. I understand that properly modeling and animating hair takes an enormous amount of processing power. It will be nice when that breakthrough finally comes.

Yes about the hair situation. Usually it goes right through the character in today's games. Sort of how a character standing against a wall, has their arms or weapon go right through the wall as they go through their animation. The physics character capsule is not precise/contoured enough to stop all the hair from going through the body.

A current solution to great flowing hair is to animate it manually along with the character's animations/physics/momentum, and not have it be a separate particles set. Hair animated much like a cel-drawn Disney animation but using a CGI model.
It would need about 8 different animation sets to account for hair going in 8 different directions depending on where the character stops.

Originally Posted by ResidentEvil7200

I maybe showing my age (40), but I don't play video games like I used to, because I found other things to get into. If I do play a game, it's either an old Resident Evil, PS 1 Tomb Raider, or PS4 Pinball Arcade, or PS4 Call Of Duty Modern Warfare. Even THAT is once every other blue moon. I rather Resident Evil be CGI movies from now on; at least I can enjoy them that way.

Besides, modern games give me motion sickness and Resident Evil's game controls in the past 12 years has been difficult for someone who was used to 1990s, 2000s controls.

RE CGI movies are definitely more accurate to the games than the live action films, agreed. But thank you, those films are actually great examples of what I was hoping PS5 graphics could look like in real time, but I was way off the mark from watching too many false "Projected PS5 graphics" videos on youtube in 2019.

The non-dynamic game cameras neutralize a lot of the sense of a cinematic look too. Like how we get a great cutscene that blends right into the dull view of the playable camera behind the player for example for the sake of playability.

Resident Evil Vendetta - In Theaters One Night Only - June 19th 2017 - YouTube

The Cinematic cutscenes are sort of close in games like Uncharted 4 or RE8, so it's not as bad I tend to suggest it is for PS4/PS5 graphics. Also a matter of performance to make it look like a movie in action.

[ChadFL]

While I haven't seen a massive jump forward in graphics post PS3/X360, one positive development is the massive improvement in hardware reliability post-PS3/X360. Not entirely sure what the specific reason was, but as much as I liked the 7th generation of consoles (especially PS3), it was the absolute dark age for hardware reliability. Everyone knows all to well about the XBox 360's RROD fiasco, which supposedly resulted in the console having an overall failure rate of around 25% (was much higher early on, but dropped after the RROD was fixed). But the PS3 was pretty awful as well, with a failure rate of around 10%. If you owned an original PS3 fat boy and played it a ton like I did, it almost certainly died at some point, forcing you to pickup a later model. The Wii was a POS, but to Nintendo's credit, it was far less failure prone than the other consoles that generation, with a failure rate of 2-3% (even adjusting for how little most played them, still much lower than Sony/Microsoft).

Contrast that with the 8th and 9th gen consoles and console reliability is VASTLY improved across the board. Most sources I've seen have the PS4 failure rate at <1%. I believe the Wii U ended up well below 1% and I've heard of next to no Switch consoles dying. XBox One estimates are all over the place, but the consensus seems to be no more than a few %, or a fraction of the X360 fail rate. So far, it seems the PS5 and XSX failure rates are similarly low as with the previous generation.

[Zivouhr]

That's probably true.

Colecovision (cartridge read failures)
NES (cartridge read failures)
Sega MS (reliable, still works 100%)
Sega Genesis (reliable, still works 100%)
PS1 (Overheating, flickering games nearly unplayable)
PS2 (Major disc read errors, cannot play blue/black bottom discs)
PS3 Slim (moody shuts down when it's ready after 10 minutes... Otherwise, 0 issues)
PS4 (Reliable, but controllers had big failure rates, port charge issues for many)
PS5 (Reliable so far, controller drift issues reported, potential liquid metal cooling issue if vertical).

PS5 Pro (Slimmer model, larger storage, better console)
PS6 (Digital only, no more discs sadly is my prediction).

[KilloWertz]

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

Which are the standout games per console would be a cool list to see in terms of graphics/performance/achievements for a console.

For PS5, I guess Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart would be a good example, along with Matrix Awakens as really pushing the PS5 to its limits so far anyway. Other games look good, but they also look good on a PS4 too aside from resolution/framerate. Forspoken was specifically made from the ground up for PS5, and most people weren't impressed as its struggles in sales already in 2023. I think it looks good, but it's not ground breaking.

For PS4, Uncharted 4 was about halfway through its lifespan which is still going, and that was an amazing looking game even on PS4 by today's standards. Why that hasn't had a PS5 remaster I don't know.

PS3, Fallout 3 was rough with the textures, but that was an amazing game IMO for gameplay anyway. I guess Gran Turismo was a great example of a higher frame rate and graphics for PS3 pushing the console's power.

PS2, I thought Midnight Club 3 was a cool game and pops into my mind as memorable. GTASA was epic, but didn't push the graphics too far visually.

PS1, Soul Reaver was always a favorite game of mine, along with Driver and a bunch others. Syphon Filter 3 looked good.

As far as fully learning the hardware and tricks, hopefully Sony has made the development kit layout much easier to use than PS3's Cell structure, which many developers, including Bethesda of Fallout 3, said it was a major hassle to develop games for.

At this point, most consoles including PS4, have become much more user friendly in terms of developing of games, along the lines of PCs, so that really shouldn't be a hurdle by this point with PS5.
I hope I'm wrong, but it seems PS5 has already reached a wall in terms of what it can do with 4K 60 fps, as I see many PS5 games struggling to consistently hit those without performance issues like occasional lag, texture updates during gameplay and pop in of all things, for example.

Even cross-gen games like Horizon Forbidden West deserve to be mentioned. Sure, it looks good on the PS4, but it was the best looking video game at the time it came out. Whether it looks good on the PS4 or not, a game like that still looks obviously better on the PS5.

Forspoken is actually a perfect example of why people need to step back and put more thought into some of their criticisms of this console generation so far. The reason why there are games out there that don't even offer 60 FPS or all the way down to 1080p at 60 FPS is not hardware limitations. It's the developers just not doing a good enough job. Sure, first party studios traditionally do better work on their own console than a third party developer (especially in the case of PlayStation Studios), but a lot of the blame should be put on the developers. Insomniac can put out games at a fairly high resolution at 60 FPS and offer several performance modes. Going third party, Capcom is one that seems to be already rolling along as Resident Evil 4 looks great and runs Dynamic 4K at 60 FPS. People all tend to forget that we are only 2+ years in.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

I definitely think there's a lot of areas like AI, geometry meshes and hair like you mentioned to be worked on because although everybody usually focuses on the obvious shiny big things, our brains are so subconsciously good at picking up on micro irregularities that when developers do have all these little things going on in the game, they definitely make an impact.

Amazing looking characters and then completely wonky motion for example would take you out of things, similar to how at present hair flopping all over weirdly can jolt you out. Take Horizon 2 for example. Aloy has very unwieldy hair at times depending on character movements.

Just as they are figuring out innovative software solutions in game engines to better use the hardware, i feel like cracking things like hair will be done within the next decade or so to be significantly better without a massive performance penalty.

I actually love the innovation Unreal Engine 5 for example is bringing and also the AMD/Nvidia specific software advances for upscaling images, streaming in data etc.

In regards to AI, I know it's a completely different genre but I have to say, Sony's "Sophie" AI in GT7 is really good! She is a C U N T!! I wonder how long before things like "Sophie" can be implemented in actual characters. Seems like they were already on to something with that Lord of the Rings game last generation (I forgot the name of the engine), but it didn't seem to ever catch on with other developers.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

While I haven't seen a massive jump forward in graphics post PS3/X360, one positive development is the massive improvement in hardware reliability post-PS3/X360. Not entirely sure what the specific reason was, but as much as I liked the 7th generation of consoles (especially PS3), it was the absolute dark age for hardware reliability. Everyone knows all to well about the XBox 360's RROD fiasco, which supposedly resulted in the console having an overall failure rate of around 25% (was much higher early on, but dropped after the RROD was fixed). But the PS3 was pretty awful as well, with a failure rate of around 10%. If you owned an original PS3 fat boy and played it a ton like I did, it almost certainly died at some point, forcing you to pickup a later model. The Wii was a POS, but to Nintendo's credit, it was far less failure prone than the other consoles that generation, with a failure rate of 2-3% (even adjusting for how little most played them, still much lower than Sony/Microsoft).

Contrast that with the 8th and 9th gen consoles and console reliability is VASTLY improved across the board. Most sources I've seen have the PS4 failure rate at <1%. I believe the Wii U ended up well below 1% and I've heard of next to no Switch consoles dying. XBox One estimates are all over the place, but the consensus seems to be no more than a few %, or a fraction of the X360 fail rate. So far, it seems the PS5 and XSX failure rates are similarly low as with the previous generation.

Aint that the truth! I literally know of no one who owned an OG 360 that didn't have to replace it because of RROD. My original PS3 never died but my god, it was grindy and sounded like a jet engine taking off. I eventually gave it to my brother in law. I'm not sure if he still has it or not.

[R3P0]

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

PS5 (Reliable so far, controller drift issues reported, potential liquid metal cooling issue if vertical).

Sony has already proven the liquid metal thing is BS there are no issues keeping the console vertical at all.

https://gamerant.com/ps5-vertical-se...20it%20is%20in.

https://kotaku.com/ps5-playstation-5...ube-1849981264

[R3P0]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Aint that the truth! I literally know of no one who owned an OG 360 that didn't have to replace it because of RROD. My original PS3 never died but my god, it was grindy and sounded like a jet engine taking off. I eventually gave it to my brother in law. I'm not sure if he still has it or not.

I actually never got the RROD from a 360, however my original died the night I picked it up the PSU went bad. Gamestop had to replace mine the next day that was a nightmare.

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

In regards to AI, I know it's a completely different genre but I have to say, Sony's "Sophie" AI in GT7 is really good! She is a C U N T!! I wonder how long before things like "Sophie" can be implemented in actual characters. Seems like they were already on to something with that Lord of the Rings game last generation (I forgot the name of the engine), but it didn't seem to ever catch on with other developers.

Personally i haven't played GT7. I tend to avoid buying games with forced online only when they have a fully capable offline single player they could do, but i do think i remember how Killzone 3 for example was praised with the AI finding ways to flank and manoeuvre around you.

That said, i do think accessibility also plays a part so hostile NPCs can be tuned to various levels but i feel like where i would personally say AI could make a difference is in huge dense crowd simulations where it allows them to obtain a more organic feel like a real life pedestrian population or variation in driving etc. Just the little subtle things we see in our everyday lives.

I think the size of game worlds has definitely been able to be increased but they just end up feeling very empty in the end, because density and immersion are usually lost as they get scaled.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Aint that the truth! I literally know of no one who owned an OG 360 that didn't have to replace it because of RROD. My original PS3 never died but my god, it was grindy and sounded like a jet engine taking off. I eventually gave it to my brother in law. I'm not sure if he still has it or not.

Had this issue with two replacements, I eventually gave up and went back to Playstation, been there ever since.

[RevolverOcelScott]

One thing I wish Sony had thought to make was an external drive for complete backwards compatability. Similar to the DS slot for the GameCube. I know it didn't catch on too much in t he GameCube era, but in the past few years, I feel retro/back cataolog desires for gaming have increased.

I would no lie pay 1k for a PS5 Pro, if it has the ability to play PS1-PS5 games. PC Emulation has started to get better with some PS3 era titles, but even with a beefy system can lag pretty bad. It's sad we've gotten to the point where we need to rely on emulation for back catalog titles.

Sony made steps with the digital ultra premium PS+, but it's still gaming as a service which I don't like. I still have my PS3 Fat thankfully, which gives me the ability to play PS1-PS3, but that thing is going to die at some point, and it is sluggish as hell by today's standards. Stepping up the love for nostalgia while the PS5 grows would make me embrace it more instead of releasing small amounts of games via digital service, because they can only put approved titles on the store vs all of our back catalogs.