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Old 10-13-2019, 04:56 AM   #21
Aclea Aclea is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daredevil666 View Post
Here's what I wrote in another thread:

The old Blu-ray (of the theatrical cut) is NOT the european version.

It deletes a shot of James Wood standing over Robert deNiro in the final confrontation, and replace it with a boring flashback of footage we have already seen in the film. That flashback was never part of any european print.
Except that flashback is in the EMI print of the uncut version that has shown up in revival houses, the UK's National Film Theatre included (they moved the intermission to the middle of the scene of De Niro getting out of jail at the screening I attended because they didn't want to pay the bar staff overtime if they kept it in its original belated position after Deborah leaves at the railroad station).
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Old 10-13-2019, 06:21 AM   #22
Daredevil666 Daredevil666 is offline
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That is an english language version. Thus not the european print
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Old 10-13-2019, 06:49 AM   #23
Aclea Aclea is online now
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The UK is in Europe. For the time being...
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Old 10-13-2019, 06:50 AM   #24
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US critics in particular tore it to shreds
I remember Siskel & Ebert being two notable exceptions. They both highly praised the longer cut, and only tore apart the truncated U.S. version. Siskel even put it on his list of top ten best films of 1984.
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:25 AM   #25
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Looking at Rottentomatoes - which has virtually no reviews from its original release - you'd think it got raves from the day of its Cannes premiere, but aside from Ebert and a few others it was one of those critical feeding frenzies, with Variety, Time Magazine (in their 1984 review of the uncut version) and Vincent Canby pretty much leading the charge against the film. But then Visconti's The Leopard was something of a critical laughing stock in Italy when it came out (there's even newsreel footage of the audience greeting its Best Picture win at the David di Donatello Awards with mocking derision).
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Old 10-13-2019, 08:01 AM   #26
Daredevil666 Daredevil666 is offline
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Aclea, the european prints are not the english language prints. This is a constant for Leone films.

That flashback only ever appeared in english language prints (US and seemingly UK as you confirm).
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Old 10-13-2019, 08:15 AM   #27
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The UK is in Europe and the film was shot in English. Ergo it is a European print (and one that Leone gave interviews supporting during its limited UK theatrical release).
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Old 10-13-2019, 08:29 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daredevil666 View Post
Aclea, the european prints are not the english language prints. This is a constant for Leone films.

That flashback only ever appeared in english language prints (US and seemingly UK as you confirm).
The movie was shot in English with an American cast. Some minor roles were played by Italian actors who got dubbed.

What language do you propose the European release was ? European ?
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Old 10-13-2019, 08:55 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow View Post
The movie was shot in English with an American cast. Some minor roles were played by Italian actors who got dubbed.

What language do you propose the European release was ? European ?
Dubbed in the relevant European country’s language of course. Did you think movies shot in English were released in Spain, France, etc in English?

Last edited by Josep5349; 10-13-2019 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:23 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josep5349 View Post
Dubbed in the relevant European country’s language of course. Did you think movies shot in English were released in Spain, France, etc in English?
Thanks for the lecture, I live in Germany so I am well aware that movies get dubbed in many European countries. I think it goes without saying that all English language films get dubbed, but in most countries there also always is the opportunity to watch these films in their original English language version, which is how I saw the movie in Berlin when it came out. That was not the US theatrical cut, it was what is known as the European cut. That then got dubbed for different countries, but it’s the same version and the default language for the European cut was English. They didn’t cut out a flash back scene especially for the dubbed prints, though the movie got censored in the UK.
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:33 AM   #31
Josep5349 Josep5349 is offline
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Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow View Post
Thanks for the lecture, I live in Germany so I am well aware that movies get dubbed in many European countries. I think it goes without saying that all English language films get dubbed, but in most countries there also always is the opportunity to watch these films in their original English language version, which is how I saw the movie in Berlin when it came out. That was not the US theatrical cut, it was what is known as the European cut. That then got dubbed for different countries, but it’s the same version and the default language for the European cut was English. They didn’t cut out a flash back scene especially for the dubbed prints, though the movie got censored in the UK.
You may well assert that’s how it was in West Germany in 1984, and unless anyone else is from Germany there won’t be anyone to challenge that assertion, however, no such option was available in most other European counties in the 80s. Movies were dubbed and that’s what most people went to see. PS; ironically, you may need to look up the meaning of the word lecture I think.

Last edited by Josep5349; 10-13-2019 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 10-13-2019, 10:30 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josep5349 View Post
You may well assert that’s how it was in West Germany in 1984, and unless anyone else is from Germany there won’t be anyone to challenge that assertion, however, no such option was available in most other European counties in the 80s. Movies were dubbed and that’s what most people went to see. PS; ironically, you may need to look up the meaning of the word lecture I think.


In France the English version is always as accessible as the dub. Many European countries don’t dub movies at all. The Netherlands and any Scandinavian country, subtitle films. Dubs are the exception there rather than the norm. Many Eastern European countries have a tradition of showing the original language version, while an announcer translates the movie over that.

That’s all besides the point though.

The point is, English was always the default language supplied for the European cut, what every country then chooses to do in terms of language varies.

Daredevil666 seems to be under the impression that there was an English cut which differs from an non-English language European cut, which is missing a flashback. That’s not the case as the default for the European cut always was in English as most of the cast was American.
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Old 10-13-2019, 10:42 AM   #33
Josep5349 Josep5349 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow View Post
In France the English version is always as accessible as the dub. Many European countries don’t dub movies at all. The Netherlands and any Scandinavian country, subtitle films. Dubs are the exception there rather than the norm. Many Eastern European countries have a tradition of showing the original language version, while an announcer translates the movie over that.

That’s all besides the point though.

The point is, English was always the default language supplied for the European cut, what every country then chooses to do in terms of language varies.

Daredevil666 seems to be under the impression that there was an English cut which differs from an non-English language European cut, which is missing a flashback. That’s not the case as the default for the European cut always was in English as most of the cast was American.
That’s now, not 1984. And in relation to Germany, a quick google search suggests it’s minority of cinemas thats do that, even today, never mind in 84; additionally it seems many Germans don’t actually know what some of the major Hollywood stars sound like in real life because German audiences are so used to dubbing, by preference. You may disagree, I’m just going by what’s out there. How this all links back to the main subject is that you were inappropriately laughing at someone because you were suggesting English language movies being released in Europe in their original language was commonplace, when that was not the case, and certainly not in 1984.
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Old 10-13-2019, 02:47 PM   #34
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I'm under no impression.

I have seen the film on release day, and several times over and over in all existing formats since.

There is a european cut (excluding all english language prints) that has the flashback deleted and a shot of James Wood to replace it.

It's the definitive cut of the film.

The US cut (and probably UK too) was censored in parts, and had that flashback cut in to make up for the deleted parts.

After a while, the US cut had the censored parts restored, but that flashback still stayed.

Leone had a habit of making the european cuts (not english language) the final cuts of his films.

That is true to GBU, OUATITW, OUATTR (aka Duck you sucker) and OUATIA.
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:10 PM   #35
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Sounds like we need a 4K box set with every version restored and available to make everyone happy. Someone needs to email Martin Scorsese.
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:24 PM   #36
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is there a 269-minute version ?

Last edited by Brightstar; 10-13-2019 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:43 PM   #37
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That was the oft-quoted estimated length of both his intended theatrical running time and the planned Italian two-part TV version (a la The Godfather: the complete Saga, albeit not in chronological order) that Leone never got round to assembling. That said, over the years he was working on it Leone changed his mind a lot about how he planned to release it, from a single three hour film to two three hour films to a single 269-minute version before settling on the 229-minute cut.
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Old 10-13-2019, 10:08 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aclea View Post
That was the oft-quoted estimated length of both his intended theatrical running time and the planned Italian two-part TV version (a la The Godfather: the complete Saga, albeit not in chronological order) that Leone never got round to assembling. That said, over the years he was working on it Leone changed his mind a lot about how he planned to release it, from a single three hour film to two three hour films to a single 269-minute version before settling on the 229-minute cut.
Thanks i thought there where still 40 minutes of footage missing ?
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Old 10-13-2019, 10:26 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightstar View Post
Thanks i thought there where still 40 minutes of footage missing ?
~22 minutes were restored for the recent restoration at 251mins, with roughly another 20 minutes in a unrestorable state. Supposedly there was further restoration work to get it to the full 269mins, but it's been quiet on that front for years now.
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Old 10-13-2019, 10:29 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daredevil666 View Post
I'm under no impression.

I have seen the film on release day, and several times over and over in all existing formats since.

There is a european cut (excluding all english language prints) that has the flashback deleted and a shot of James Wood to replace it.

It's the definitive cut of the film.

The US cut (and probably UK too) was censored in parts, and had that flashback cut in to make up for the deleted parts.

After a while, the US cut had the censored parts restored, but that flashback still stayed.

Leone had a habit of making the european cuts (not english language) the final cuts of his films.

That is true to GBU, OUATITW, OUATTR (aka Duck you sucker) and OUATIA.
Would you please tell us then what language that cut apparently was in. Are you claiming that the cut dubbed into every European language was not the cut released in the UK ? Was it an Italian version ? Have you actually checked every dubbed version of the film to be able to verify this ? You keep saying "not English language" but what language was it ?
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