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Old 11-27-2016, 11:19 PM   #1
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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Default Should "flat" paint be this shiny???

I painted this patch dark grey, just in front of the where the projector is going (tomorrow ).

I thought "flat" paint wasn't supposed to be shiny, this is much more shiny than the white..... I am (was) going to be painting the entire ceiling in this, and the walls, 2 shades lighter grey. I did this patch because it will be weeks or months before I have time to paint the entire room.

I am very disappointed in how shiny this is, what am I missing?

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Old 11-28-2016, 04:13 PM   #2
ImPulSive ImPulSive is offline
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Short answer, no.

Is this still fresh, wet? How long after painting did you take this photo? Latex or oil based? It might require some cure time to darken and additional coats to get it right, but when I did my room in a dark navy blue, one coat covering a base white primer looked better than that. What is your paint color, other info - can you look that up online to confirm? Using testers? I'd get another tester from different store and try again on different patch of ceiling.
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Old 11-28-2016, 05:15 PM   #3
Rory Rory is offline
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Yeah, I think it could be the surface you've painted on.
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Old 11-29-2016, 04:02 AM   #4
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImPulSive View Post
Short answer, no.

Is this still fresh, wet? How long after painting did you take this photo? Latex or oil based? It might require some cure time to darken and additional coats to get it right, but when I did my room in a dark navy blue, one coat covering a base white primer looked better than that. What is your paint color, other info - can you look that up online to confirm? Using testers? I'd get another tester from different store and try again on different patch of ceiling.
It was about 6 hours in that photo, but 2 days later, more or less the same.

It definitely reflects less light, when I shine a flashlight on it there is much less reflected light, but I am worried if I painted my room in that, the mirror like reflections would drive me nuts...

It is Valspar Signature "Almost charcoal" interior flat latex, "Base C" FWTW.

It is plenty dark, when you don't catch a light reflection...
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Old 11-29-2016, 04:04 AM   #5
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rory View Post
Yeah, I think it could be the surface you've painted on.
It is painted on plain white primer... What else should I be painting on?
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Old 11-29-2016, 03:00 PM   #6
ImPulSive ImPulSive is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad1138 View Post
It was about 6 hours in that photo, but 2 days later, more or less the same.

It definitely reflects less light, when I shine a flashlight on it there is much less reflected light, but I am worried if I painted my room in that, the mirror like reflections would drive me nuts...

It is Valspar Signature "Almost charcoal" interior flat latex, "Base C" FWTW.

It is plenty dark, when you don't catch a light reflection...
So how realistic is your first test? You are not going to have such bright lights pointed towards the ceiling when you are watching movies and other content are you? Have you done a real world test, darkened room and content shown to see how it looks?

Also the darker the color, the harder it is to cover up imperfections in the wall/ceiling. Just ask any painter, or get a quote on how much to paint your car white versus black. Your first picture shows bumps on the ceiling, not saying that is a defect as it could have been designed that way, but when you switch over to a dark color everything little thing will show up, which may draw your attention to it more than it would if the surface was perfectly flat. Try a real world test and see. I would also put second coat on half that area and test again.
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Old 11-29-2016, 04:46 PM   #7
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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Originally Posted by ImPulSive View Post
So how realistic is your first test? You are not going to have such bright lights pointed towards the ceiling when you are watching movies and other content are you? Have you done a real world test, darkened room and content shown to see how it looks?

Also the darker the color, the harder it is to cover up imperfections in the wall/ceiling. Just ask any painter, or get a quote on how much to paint your car white versus black. Your first picture shows bumps on the ceiling, not saying that is a defect as it could have been designed that way, but when you switch over to a dark color everything little thing will show up, which may draw your attention to it more than it would if the surface was perfectly flat. Try a real world test and see. I would also put second coat on half that area and test again.
I know the ceiling has issues, not so worried about that(in this context anyway), just want to darken the room, and do it right. White is the worst thing to have on the walls of a HT. It would definitely darken the room, but this picture shows the mirror like reflections, that I think would be much worse if it went right up to the screen. I will try repainting half of it like you said.

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Old 11-29-2016, 05:51 PM   #8
roar roar is offline
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Something does not look right there...

This is what the Benjamin Moore Pre-Mixed Flat Black paint looks like in my theatre:

[Show spoiler]


Flat paint is a pain to work with... if you touch it at all after it has dried it leaves a mark... since you're repainting anyway, give it a swipe with your finger... if it doesn't leave a mark then it isn't flat paint.
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Old 11-29-2016, 06:52 PM   #9
joie joie is offline
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I think your "flat" paint was mislabeled. Try a small can of a different brand of "flat."
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Old 11-29-2016, 07:31 PM   #10
ImPulSive ImPulSive is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roar View Post
Something does not look right there...

This is what the Benjamin Moore Pre-Mixed Flat Black paint looks like in my theatre:

[Show spoiler]


Flat paint is a pain to work with... if you touch it at all after it has dried it leaves a mark... since you're repainting anyway, give it a swipe with your finger... if it doesn't leave a mark then it isn't flat paint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joie View Post
I think your "flat" paint was mislabeled. Try a small can of a different brand of "flat."
I agree. I do not have these problems with the flat paint Behr I used in my theatre. Something wrong with your paint. Must be mislabelled because just looking at it I would call it a semi-gloss or full on gloss. Get a tester from Home Depot or Lowes or somewhere else besides the place you got the original paint from and try again. And yes, flat paint is not easy to rework or clean if you have kids leaving a mess on your walls. But since it is your ceiling, we can hope that a single application should be all that is needed, unless a second coat is required because the first did not cover it well.
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Old 11-29-2016, 07:40 PM   #11
frogmort frogmort is offline
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Yeah, I would go with a different paint.
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Old 11-29-2016, 11:41 PM   #12
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roar View Post
Something does not look right there...

This is what the Benjamin Moore Pre-Mixed Flat Black paint looks like in my theatre:

[Show spoiler]


Flat paint is a pain to work with... if you touch it at all after it has dried it leaves a mark... since you're repainting anyway, give it a swipe with your finger... if it doesn't leave a mark then it isn't flat paint.
Yours is more what I was expecting, I was going with dark gray ceiling and medium gray walls, as opposed to black, that shouldn't make a difference should it?

So a vote for Benjamin Moore and Behr. I will go to those places and investigate more. I initially didn't even worry about it, I though flat was flat and wouldn't be shiny. I wish I had paid more attention to that, now I have $100 worth of paint I can't do anything with.....
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Old 11-30-2016, 12:27 AM   #13
ImPulSive ImPulSive is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad1138 View Post
Yours is more what I was expecting, I was going with dark gray ceiling and medium gray walls, as opposed to black, that shouldn't make a difference should it?

So a vote for Benjamin Moore and Behr. I will go to those places and investigate more. I initially didn't even worry about it, I though flat was flat and wouldn't be shiny. I wish I had paid more attention to that, now I have $100 worth of paint I can't do anything with.....
Take your phone or tablet with you when you go to the store to get your tester. Show the person working the paint counter photos of your room and the problem to get their opinion. If the person serving you is dedicated to that paint department and not just some person filling while the regular person is gone to lunch or whatever, you should get a much better result this time.

Edit: Also if you could paint some drywall and take with you that might help too.

Last edited by ImPulSive; 11-30-2016 at 02:21 AM.
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Old 11-30-2016, 03:36 AM   #14
roar roar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad1138 View Post
Yours is more what I was expecting, I was going with dark gray ceiling and medium gray walls, as opposed to black, that shouldn't make a difference should it?

So a vote for Benjamin Moore and Behr. I will go to those places and investigate more. I initially didn't even worry about it, I though flat was flat and wouldn't be shiny. I wish I had paid more attention to that, now I have $100 worth of paint I can't do anything with.....
Colour shouldn't matter to the finish in my opinion. I'd take the paint back personally and tell them you're disappointed with the finish. See if they will work with you to make you happy.
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Old 11-30-2016, 06:18 AM   #15
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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I went to Home Depot, told the paint guy this was for a HT and I wanted the flattest paint possible. He said I needed the best Behr paint, and gave me a sample with "matte" finish. When I mentioned that with their own demo board sitting right on the counter, flat looked less shiny than matte, he said indoor only came in matte, had to get outdoor to get flat...? Not sure he was a regular in that department. I am going to go to a Ben Moore dealer, they should all be more knowledgeable.

I am not buying anything more than samples until I know I have the right paint.

I remembered, the reason I missed this with the Lowes paint was they only gave samples in gloss, so I couldn't judge it "flatness"...
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Old 12-01-2016, 12:23 AM   #16
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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Went to Ben Moore, they had a "Super flat" ceiling paint. The guy said it ts the flattest paint he has seen in 30 years he has been doing this. So I went with that, and a standard "flat" for the walls. He said matte would be more durable for walls, I told him I would paint them over if needed, I wanted flat.

We'll see how this goes.

Thanks for the thoughts
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Old 12-01-2016, 04:15 AM   #17
roar roar is offline
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I'd agree with the guy... flat for walls is thought... if you have kids or animals the walls will quite literally be impossible to not mark up. Even if you go to dust you'll be hard pressed not to leave marks behind. The 'super flat' sounds like what you're after for the ceiling for sure. Benjamin Moore makes great paint... goes on nice and thick, often in a single coat.
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Old 12-01-2016, 04:33 AM   #18
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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Quote:
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I'd agree with the guy... flat for walls is thought... if you have kids or animals the walls will quite literally be impossible to not mark up. Even if you go to dust you'll be hard pressed not to leave marks behind. The 'super flat' sounds like what you're after for the ceiling for sure. Benjamin Moore makes great paint... goes on nice and thick, often in a single coat.
I know...., We have had white primer which is worse since buying the house 7 years ago.... I'm used to it. I'll just keep a gallon of the paint around for touchups if needed.
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Old 12-02-2016, 11:43 PM   #19
rdodolak rdodolak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad1138 View Post
I went to Home Depot, told the paint guy this was for a HT and I wanted the flattest paint possible. He said I needed the best Behr paint, and gave me a sample with "matte" finish. When I mentioned that with their own demo board sitting right on the counter, flat looked less shiny than matte, he said indoor only came in matte, had to get outdoor to get flat...? Not sure he was a regular in that department. I am going to go to a Ben Moore dealer, they should all be more knowledgeable.

I am not buying anything more than samples until I know I have the right paint.

I remembered, the reason I missed this with the Lowes paint was they only gave samples in gloss, so I couldn't judge it "flatness"...
It appears the Behr Marquee and Premium Plus Ultra paints are only available in a matte finish but the Behr Premium Plus has an Interior Flat option. Their "best" and "second best" paint, Marquee and Premium Plus, is only available in a flat finish with the exterior paint.

http://www.behr.com/consumer/product...int-and-primer

Last edited by rdodolak; 12-02-2016 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 12-03-2016, 02:52 AM   #20
mcgavinj mcgavinj is offline
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I've worked for Sherwin Williams for 20 years so I have some background in this area. Every different paint manufacturer and even different products from the same manufacturer can have slightly different gloss levels even if the label says flat. The best product I've found for a good flat is sherwin williams emerald flat(not matte). It also doesn't suffer from some of the short comings of most traditional flats others have mentioned like not being able to touch or wipe it. It feels more smooth to the touch not rough like sandpaper like most flats do, but still offers a very dead flat appearance. I believe I've got some pics of it in my gallery. The dark gray color-not the beige color. Good luck!
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