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Old 01-28-2010, 03:12 AM   #21
spartyblu spartyblu is offline
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Will a Tripp-Lite HTSWIVEL6 supressor provide enough protection for a LCD, a HTiB, a BD player and a cable receiver? THanks in advance.
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Old 01-29-2010, 12:35 AM   #22
spartyblu spartyblu is offline
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Will a Tripp-Lite HTSWIVEL6 supressor provide enough protection for a LCD, a HTiB, a BD player and a cable receiver? THanks in advance.
Anybody?
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Old 01-29-2010, 01:02 AM   #23
ryandubbz ryandubbz is offline
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Wow i guess i need a better protector

Last edited by ryandubbz; 01-29-2010 at 01:43 AM.
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:01 AM   #24
DragonSarc DragonSarc is offline
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solarrdadd or any body is it ok to put an extention cord from my tv to my power conditioner id say the tv is about 15 - 20 feet away from my av rack will that defeat the pourpose? thanks
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:26 AM   #25
solarrdadd solarrdadd is offline
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solarrdadd or any body is it ok to put an extention cord from my tv to my power conditioner id say the tv is about 15 - 20 feet away from my av rack will that defeat the pourpose? thanks
while i usually don't recommend extension cords, i know that sometimes it's a necessary evil; you would be for the most part, ok in this instance. make sure it's at least #14awg size cord (do not use 16 or 18awg as they are really too small and i don't recommend them. don't go by the gauge on your tv's power cord either use the #14awg like i recommend and make sure it's 3 prong even if your tv is only 2 prong it will be hard for you to find a 2 prong 14awg extension cord anyway!) you should be fine. the tv is not a real high power appliance and at that distance you don't have to worry about voltage drop. just make sure it's plugged all the way into the tv cord and place it where it won't be a trip hazard.

best of luck, hope this helps!
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:38 AM   #26
solarrdadd solarrdadd is offline
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Anybody?
add up the watt ratings of all the appliances you mentioned and make sure it isn't more than the watt rating of the protector and you will be fine.

the standard rating for these 15a rated devices is actually 12a as they are not rated for "continious loading" under the National Electrical Code (NEC) so the ratings put up in watts and for a 15a surge surpressor it will accept 1,440w continuously (derated to 80% of it's 15a rating from 1800w down to 1440w or
12a) at the 80% rating you can then run that load "continously", as defined by the NEC is {a load operating for longer than 3 hours, continuously}

in other words if everything you want to plug into a 1440w rated unit comes to 1200, your fine, however if it came to 1500w it's too much and you would have to eliminate something to bring the load down to 1440 or less.

confusing, a little, but i hope it helps. if you don't understand, have doubts or still need help, send me a pm of the electrical ratings for each piece of equipment you listed as well as the rating of the protector and i can give you an answer. some of the really expensive protectors will have a light and alarm if you are overloading them (sorry, not yours!) and will stop if you eliminate the necessary amount of load.

Last edited by solarrdadd; 06-11-2010 at 02:43 AM. Reason: I checked your Tripplite device is rated for 1800w!
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Old 06-13-2010, 11:08 AM   #27
DragonSarc DragonSarc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
while i usually don't recommend extension cords, i know that sometimes it's a necessary evil; you would be for the most part, ok in this instance. make sure it's at least #14awg size cord (do not use 16 or 18awg as they are really too small and i don't recommend them. don't go by the gauge on your tv's power cord either use the #14awg like i recommend and make sure it's 3 prong even if your tv is only 2 prong it will be hard for you to find a 2 prong 14awg extension cord anyway!) you should be fine. the tv is not a real high power appliance and at that distance you don't have to worry about voltage drop. just make sure it's plugged all the way into the tv cord and place it where it won't be a trip hazard.

best of luck, hope this helps!
sweet thanks Solardadd
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:14 PM   #28
crackinhedz crackinhedz is offline
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sweet thanks Solardadd
he's our resident Electrician.
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Old 06-13-2010, 05:19 PM   #29
DiverSpear DiverSpear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonSarc View Post
sweet thanks Solardadd
Quote:
Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
add up the watt ratings of all the appliances you mentioned and make sure it isn't more than the watt rating of the protector and you will be fine.

the standard rating for these 15a rated devices is actually 12a as they are not rated for "continious loading" under the National Electrical Code (NEC) so the ratings put up in watts and for a 15a surge surpressor it will accept 1,440w continuously (derated to 80% of it's 15a rating from 1800w down to 1440w or
12a) at the 80% rating you can then run that load "continously", as defined by the NEC is {a load operating for longer than 3 hours, continuously}

in other words if everything you want to plug into a 1440w rated unit comes to 1200, your fine, however if it came to 1500w it's too much and you would have to eliminate something to bring the load down to 1440 or less.

confusing, a little, but i hope it helps. if you don't understand, have doubts or still need help, send me a pm of the electrical ratings for each piece of equipment you listed as well as the rating of the protector and i can give you an answer. some of the really expensive protectors will have a light and alarm if you are overloading them (sorry, not yours!) and will stop if you eliminate the necessary amount of load.

However, if you run a dedicated 20A or 15A ckt with a single receptacle you can run at 100%. 2008 NEC 210.21(B)(1) Granted, when you have two or more receptacles or outlets, the branch ckt shall not supply a total cord and plug connected load in excess of Table 210.21(B)(2).

I just recently had to put an inspector in his place on this rule. Gotta love inspectors that make up their own rules.
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Old 06-19-2010, 09:15 PM   #30
solarrdadd solarrdadd is offline
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Originally Posted by DiverSpear View Post
However, if you run a dedicated 20A or 15A ckt with a single receptacle you can run at 100%. 2008 NEC 210.21(B)(1) Granted, when you have two or more receptacles or outlets, the branch ckt shall not supply a total cord and plug connected load in excess of Table 210.21(B)(2).

I just recently had to put an inspector in his place on this rule. Gotta love inspectors that make up their own rules.
I think you are mistaken, the reason we usually calculate at 80% is because only specialized things are rated for continious loading. that's why you can't for other than motors use (commercial or residential) protect 14awg @ 15a bkr,
12awg @ 20a bkr & 10awg @ 30a bkr because of the fact that these represent the 3 most comon types of circuits folks come in contact with (commercial or residential) so part of it is design safety. the other part is the breakers are not designed for continuous loading (the wire and it's insulation can take it) so we usually design into that spec (quietly). so that 1440w rating on the 15a is the 80% and that means you can run that 1440w forever and you'll be fine, breaker will be fine. however, the full rating of the 15a is 1800w and you can also run that load through your outlet(s) into that 15a breaker, just not continuously! Continuous load is one that operates at it's listed rating for 3 or more hours continuously without a interuption of its demand for said power.

so, can we run 2400w on a 20a 120v circuit, yes you can. can we run it for more than 3 hours without stopping, NO, how much can we run on that 20a circuit without stopping for more than 3 hours, 1920w or 16a (80%)

for 15a circuit those numbers would be 15a = 1800w (full) or 12a, 1440w @ 80%

2008 NEC 210.21(B)(1), read it again. it states that the single receptacle on the individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating (maximum current rating listed for the device) not less than the branch circuit; OR a single 15a rated receptacle is permitted to be on an individual 15a circuit, same goes for a 20a rated single receptacle being on an individual 20a circuit.

Table 210.21(B)(2), read it again, it states the maximum load that the cord & plugged device can be based on the circuit rating (OCPD and awg) the receptacle rating 15, 20 or 30a and then it list the max load in amps which you notice are all 80% of the device and circuit rating...continuous loading again and for the same circuits i mentioned earlier.

look at the nameplate for any 15a, 20a or 30a cord & plug device (the size and type of cords and plugs will also match the UL listing for each device) they will never be higher than 80% (electric space heaters and electric hair dryers are the exception as some of them have been allowed to to to 1500w but have met other guidlines with thermostatic controls and extra internal heat protection) of their plug ratings, continuous loading.

you might owe that inspector lunch!

i await your response, you and i are cool, so i expect us to debate and not argue! I hope you and yours are doing fine and I also hope that the Oil never gets to where you are as i know it will have an impact on everything and in doing so, everyone.

Last edited by solarrdadd; 06-19-2010 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 06-21-2010, 12:59 PM   #31
DiverSpear DiverSpear is offline
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I understand T210(B)(2) and yes that is 80%, but 210.21(B)(1) states a single can go to 100%. Single meaning not a duplex. That is where I got the inspector it was for a microwave ckt. Here is food for thought, we both fully understand continuous loading, all these HT's run longer than 3hrs. It would be nice to set up at 125% but you and I know not a single inspector would go for that unless over ruled by a PE.

As far as the inspector goes, right or wrong, I'm sure it will work out down the on another jobsite.

So far the oil hasn't gotten to the east coast of Fl but it has already screwed up the Gulf of Mexico for fishing and diving.
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Old 06-21-2010, 01:35 PM   #32
solarrdadd solarrdadd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiverSpear View Post
I understand T210(B)(2) and yes that is 80%, but 210.21(B)(1) states a single can go to 100%. Single meaning not a duplex. That is where I got the inspector it was for a microwave ckt. Here is food for thought, we both fully understand continuous loading, all these HT's run longer than 3hrs. It would be nice to set up at 125% but you and I know not a single inspector would go for that unless over ruled by a PE.

As far as the inspector goes, right or wrong, I'm sure it will work out down the on another jobsite.

So far the oil hasn't gotten to the east coast of Fl but it has already screwed up the Gulf of Mexico for fishing and diving.
actually no, notice it gives no % values in that article. if it meant anything by number it would state it as it does for everything else in the code. here's what article 210.21(B)(1) states: (this is the direct verbatim quote) "a single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit" this means that if you have a 15a breaker with the properly rated wire (14awg minimum) you must use 15a rated devices, i.e. 15a receptacles or 15a switches. if you had a 20a circuit breaker you must use 20a rated receptacles and switches. that article is not refering to the actual load imposed on the device, it's talking about the "rating" of the device (switch or receptacle) trust me, it's not talking about how much of a load or for how long. it's only stating what the NEMA/UL listed rating of the device shall be for a given circuit rating (circuit breaker size protecting the branch circuit with rated conductors).

210.21(B)(2) talks about cord and plug connected loads imposed onto those devices and their OCPD and how much they can be.

hope this helps.

yes, i saw on the news that the oil has unfortunately made it down to Florida; I'm sorry to hear that. I just heard it on the news today that some folks down in FL said that it was showing up on some of the beaches. but, it wasn't enough to close them yet, but that time is on it's way if BP doesn't do something quick!
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:15 AM   #33
rocksparow rocksparow is offline
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The electrical energy is supplied by a current to an appliance enables it to do work. Electric power is usually measured in Watts, kilowatts and megawatts. The lighting exceeds world's demand for a electricity by a large factor. Generally electrical power generating systems convert mechanical energy.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:38 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by rocksparow View Post
The electrical energy is supplied by a current to an appliance enables it to do work. Electric power is usually measured in Watts, kilowatts and megawatts. The lighting exceeds world's demand for a electricity by a large factor. Generally electrical power generating systems convert mechanical energy.
You missed a few steps. The chemical ernergy in the fuel is converted to heat energy in the boiler, the heat energy is coverted to mechanical energy in the turbine & the mechanical energy is converted to electrical energy in the generator. Sorry, I've been a power plant operator for over 30-yrs and couldn't let this go.
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Old 07-09-2010, 03:10 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by rpatt View Post
You missed a few steps. The chemical ernergy in the fuel is converted to heat energy in the boiler, the heat energy is coverted to mechanical energy in the turbine & the mechanical energy is converted to electrical energy in the generator. Sorry, I've been a power plant operator for over 30-yrs and couldn't let this go.
Here in (Quebec), most of our electricity is produced by converting the potential energy of water (from dams and rivers) in electricity with turbines. So no burning fuel here

Last edited by Johk; 07-09-2010 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 11-10-2010, 05:31 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
Howdy, I am a licensed Master Electrician and I will tell you that sags & surges are real and they are a real threat to your electronic equipment. I paid good money, like the rest of you I'm sure for my Home Theatre gear. I know that it needs to be protected. I have three forms of protection for my equipment, 1) I installed a dedicated 20amp 120volt circuit for my stuff with #12awg from the breaker panel. 2) I have an APC 1500VA UPS with AVR plugged into that. 3) I have an APC Surge Suppression plug strip plugged into the UPS and all of my equipment goes into the strip. Now the strip might be viewed as overkill but no, there are not enough receptacles in my UPS so i use the strip for power distribution. i also have my cable and Dish network boxes coax going through it as well as my ethernet that goes to a hub for my network enabled components. I can't tell you how many times people have had either a lightning strike, surge or sage that have lasted more than 3 seconds destroy their equipment. You spend so much money on these things and get CHEAP little plug strips. most of the time this is due to ignorance in the belief that this is enough, well, IT'S NOT! All of my equipment is well protected with all three forms mentioned. I had a good friend who lost a plasma and a blu-ray player both connected with a $15 plug strip called a Surge Protector. Spending a couple of Hundred dollars on REAL protection will not only protect your equipment from electrical faults from both nature and the power utility it will also extend the life of your equipment by giving it good clean power. Trust me on this, I'm a professional and this is almost 30 years talking to you!
Right on solardad, as a licensed electrical PE for a major utility, I believe that adequate protection at the customer-level is seriously underappreciated. That being said, I am ashamed to say that I am powering my equipment with a less-than-adequate surge protector. How much power consumption have you calculated for all your gear? Did you give yourself a 20% slack when you purchased your UPS?

Since my residence is a rental, I'll have to speak to my landlord about having him run a dedicated feeder so that I can power my UPS from it.

Last edited by rarredoa; 11-10-2010 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 06-03-2011, 12:28 AM   #37
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Default lightning protection

Those of you haven't heard my setup was zapped by lightning.

If you are building or in the process of building this is some good info for all.
It doesn't matter new your house is it is good to be protected from electrical line surges such as switching or lightning.

I am going to put in a line surge protector right at the electrical box.
Something similar to this: http://www.smarthome.com/4860/Levito...otector/p.aspx
Also the other option is this: http://www.v-blox.com/surge_protection

Also the key in every setup everything must be grounded. Including your cable tv into your house. They make line isolators for cable tv as well.
:http://www.smarthome.com/4874/1-Line...r-IG1CM/p.aspx

Mine wasn't grounded it is likely the first source of the surge that destroyed the projector and receiver and cable box.
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:21 AM   #38
Allforce Allforce is offline
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How difficult is that to install after the fact? Is it a do-it-yourself type thing or am I bringing in my electrician again to do it?
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Old 06-03-2011, 02:17 PM   #39
86surf 86surf is offline
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The device links into your main fuse/breaker box I suggest you have someone who knows what he is doing.
So yes for most a professional would be needed.
Here are the instructions http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/48716.pdf so it's not too bad as long as you follow it correctly.

Last edited by 86surf; 06-03-2011 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:46 PM   #40
rarredoa rarredoa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
Howdy, I am a licensed Master Electrician and I will tell you that sags & surges are real and they are a real threat to your electronic equipment. I paid good money, like the rest of you I'm sure for my Home Theatre gear. I know that it needs to be protected. I have three forms of protection for my equipment, 1) I installed a dedicated 20amp 120volt circuit for my stuff with #12awg from the breaker panel. 2) I have an APC 1500VA UPS with AVR plugged into that. 3) I have an APC Surge Suppression plug strip plugged into the UPS and all of my equipment goes into the strip. Now the strip might be viewed as overkill but no, there are not enough receptacles in my UPS so i use the strip for power distribution. i also have my cable and Dish network boxes coax going through it as well as my ethernet that goes to a hub for my network enabled components. I can't tell you how many times people have had either a lightning strike, surge or sage that have lasted more than 3 seconds destroy their equipment. You spend so much money on these things and get CHEAP little plug strips. most of the time this is due to ignorance in the belief that this is enough, well, IT'S NOT! All of my equipment is well protected with all three forms mentioned. I had a good friend who lost a plasma and a blu-ray player both connected with a $15 plug strip called a Surge Protector. Spending a couple of Hundred dollars on REAL protection will not only protect your equipment from electrical faults from both nature and the power utility it will also extend the life of your equipment by giving it good clean power. Trust me on this, I'm a professional and this is almost 30 years talking to you!
Are utilities really allowing voltage sags up to 3 seconds?!
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