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Old 11-09-2013, 07:48 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanPom View Post
Wont a 4k TV make most TV programming look like crap since all the shows from the 70s to the 90s wil be stuck in a little window in the center of the screen??
shows from the 70-90 and before are already stuck in a window at the center of your 16:9 screen.
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Old 11-09-2013, 01:39 PM   #62
oppopioneer oppopioneer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada View Post
shows from the 70-90 and before are already stuck in a window at the center of your 16:9 screen.
So 4k tv's won't play 16:9 content or shows from the 70's and 90's properly? How come?
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Old 11-09-2013, 03:39 PM   #63
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Shows from the 70-90s are stuck in a windows because they were shot with an aspect ratio of 1.33:1 while modern TVs have aspect ratios of 1.78:1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oppopioneer View Post
So 4k tv's won't play 16:9 content or shows from the 70's and 90's properly? How come?
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Old 11-10-2013, 02:02 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post
Shows from the 70-90s are stuck in a windows because they were shot with an aspect ratio of 1.33:1 while modern TVs have aspect ratios of 1.78:1.
My Pioneer Elite Kuro plasma plays shows from the 70's and 80's just fine.
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:58 AM   #65
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I don't really care if 4K is shoehorned into Blu ray or it gets an entirely new format, all I want is at least is a 12 bit 4:4:4 colour space.

Last edited by Canada; 11-11-2013 at 02:43 AM.
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:03 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada View Post
I don't really care if 4K is shoehorned into Blu ray or it gets an entirely new format, all I want is at least is a 12 bit 4:4:4 colour space.
What about 4:2:2 ?
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Old 11-11-2013, 09:27 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oppopioneer View Post
What about 4:2:2 ?
I think 10 bit 4:4:4 would be better than 12 bit 4:2:2.
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Old 11-11-2013, 10:01 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada View Post
I think 10 bit 4:4:4 would be better than 12 bit 4:2:2.
Why is that? I'm not familiar with the two. Isn't 12 bit superior to 10 bit?
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Old 11-11-2013, 10:23 PM   #69
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Yes and no.

The 12 bit would aid with banding by having more addressable steps between no color and fully saturated color. but the 4:4:4 vs 4:2:2 vs 4:2:0 is an arbitratry number that represents how much of the color signal is retained. with 4 representing full fidelity and 2 representing 1/2 fidelety.

With a 4:4:4 you have full luminance (picture in black and white) with full vertical and full horizontal color fidelity retained.

4:2:2 would for compression purposes retain the entire luminance channel but would I believe cut the Horizontal resolution of the color space in half and leaves it to the processor to rebuild the missing color data.

4:2:0 color space even further cuts the resolution of the color data both horizontally in half and also vertically in half. So a full resolution 10 bit image would likely be more accurite then a 12 bit compressed image that requires the processor to rebuild the data.

Think lossless as 4:4:4 and lossy is 4:2:2 or even more lossy is 4:2:0.

Hope that helps
T
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Old 11-11-2013, 10:51 PM   #70
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Thanks for that explanation Bobby D, I just learnt about colour bit depth about a month ago so I am still a noob when it comes bit depth.
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Old 11-11-2013, 10:56 PM   #71
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No problem. If you are really interested there is a fantastic interview with industry professional Joe Kane on the Home theater Geek channel of twitt TV. http://twit.tv/show/home-theater-geeks/180 And Joe discusses all the major issues with the next gen HD standards. It's like an hour long interview but it is Awsome the topics that Joe gets into and the graphics that they have for coverage is very well done to properly illustrate all of these topics very well.

Thanks,
T
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:44 AM   #72
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If 4:2:2 12 bit is higher than 10 bit is it more advanced and newer? Is it similar to like comparing 720p to 1080p as 1080p is the newer higher up version?
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Old 11-12-2013, 02:49 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oppopioneer View Post
If 4:2:2 12 bit is higher than 10 bit is it more advanced and newer? Is it similar to like comparing 720p to 1080p as 1080p is the newer higher up version?
There are no versions of bit depth

That's the way they encode you can encode colour it's basically getting more bits of colour information


10 bit is bit depth it's like DTS 24/96

Black Hawk Down is 16 bit PCM

Pirates of the Caribbean 24 bit PCM

The Dark Knight 16 bit True HD

Transformers 24 bit True HD
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Old 11-12-2013, 02:55 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbydrugar View Post
No problem. If you are really interested there is a fantastic interview with industry professional Joe Kane on the Home theater Geek channel of twitt TV. http://twit.tv/show/home-theater-geeks/180 And Joe discusses all the major issues with the next gen HD standards. It's like an hour long interview but it is Awsome the topics that Joe gets into and the graphics that they have for coverage is very well done to properly illustrate all of these topics very well.

Thanks,
T
Home Theater Geeks 180 is where I first learned about colour bit depth.
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:18 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oppopioneer View Post
If 4:2:2 12 bit is higher than 10 bit is it more advanced and newer? Is it similar to like comparing 720p to 1080p as 1080p is the newer higher up version?

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Old 11-12-2013, 07:25 AM   #76
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to paraphrase the number of bits and the compression are not actually the same thing. the bit depth or number of bits is used to describe the number of different colors from off to fully saturated. In other words to get from 0 to highest value or absolute on you would be able to increment by a number of steps so for example if we are talking about just green as the color with 10 bit there are 1024 different shades of green that could be represented where as to go from the same 0 mark to the same absolute on with a 12 bit system there would be 4096 different shades of green that could be represented so from zero to absolute on a 12 bit system would graduate in much finer increments of a smoother transition then a 10 bit system. Where as the compression 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 would be applied after you have the full data package with all of the luminance and color data the compression will actually remove data from the picture. In other words with 4:2:2 you would have the entire picture (all of the pixels) represented for the luminance (black and white) which is a very sharp image. but the blue and red difference (the blue and red color) would only have every other horizontal pixel represented in the data and the television would have to fill in the gaps as best it can. With 4:2:0 you would have the entire luminance image but you would now also be missing every other horizontal pixel and every other vertical pixel missing from the red and blue signal again the TV has to make up the difference as best it can. In other words with either 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 you are not getting the full resolution of the image (as far as color data is concerned).

Put simple the fact that we are still using 4:2:0 means we are not actually getting the picture as it was meant to be seen. We are getting a pretty $H!ty compressed version.

Again you may want to re-watch that HTG video as Joe explains both topics and has visual demonstrations of each.

Hope that helps
T
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:56 AM   #77
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Are 4k tv's going to use or are currently using 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 ?

What is my Pioneer Elite Kuro Pro-151FD using ? I'm just not sure.

My Kuro display and Pioneer bd player allows me to adjust what color space and HDMI settings to set it to.
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:04 PM   #78
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The displays are not the problem. Its the size of the movie/video file that is. As I stated previously 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 are compression techniques that are used to decrease the size of the video by removing data from the video signal. Without it the signal is massive and would not fit on a disk and would probably even give cable companies and over the air transmissions difficulty in delivering the bandwidth. So currently its the storage media and bandwidth that are the problem. All displays should be capable of delivering 4:4:4 color space either in the digital RGB which is not used by our current delivery system its for computer software or the YCbCr/YPbPr standards which is what we currently use for video and movies.

Hope that helps
T
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