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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Displays > Display Theory and Discussion > New Display Technologies

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Old 01-31-2014, 07:17 PM   #1
Robert Zohn Robert Zohn is offline
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Arrow Come join this active discussion on the adoption of 4K

I was selected to be on the CES panel discussion on the adoption of 4K. Here's a good article in CEPro about the CES 4K breakfast event.

Chime in, tweet, like and share this article.

-Robert

Last edited by Robert Zohn; 02-01-2014 at 01:21 AM. Reason: fixed typo
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Old 01-31-2014, 07:56 PM   #2
pentatonic pentatonic is offline
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Nice read, tx Robert.

On the topic of UHD, there seems to be many here, possibly most, who say they are not interested, for all the usual reasons mentioned elsewhere. How is the reaction of your clientele towards UHD in general?
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Old 02-01-2014, 04:01 AM   #3
AccordTR AccordTR is offline
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Love my Sammy, just need more content and I'll be set.
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Old 02-03-2014, 05:21 AM   #4
JediFonger JediFonger is offline
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1. i'd rather see higher color depth encodes, even at 1080p. That'll do wonders for films.
2. i dont get why standards dont go all the way. whats the point of them if they continually get completely tossed with every upgrade? we should have had a BDA international standardization of 16k maybe 24k 16bit color variable fps from 1 to 10,000 maybe more 3-D, open ended audio codec similar to dolby atmos or dts mda in 1995!!! that way you allow for everything else to catchup! imagine encoding a film in 16k highest color depth atmos esque audio mix on. disc then as new techniques arrive to decode them create connectors to do so

Last edited by JediFonger; 02-03-2014 at 05:23 AM.
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:22 PM   #5
Robert Zohn Robert Zohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentatonic View Post
I know I will let things get moving and have a local dealer that is somewhat like you, knows his stuff and obviously calibrates their sets to optimal conditions for the room. I am more than curious. Any 4K PJs?

As an industry "insider", how fast do you think 4K will become the norm for mid to high end sets?
Sony has their second gen projector line out, the VPL-VM600ES for $15k and the VPL-1100ES for $27k. These are list prices and the performance with 1080 and 2160p from Sony's server are exceptional.

MY estimate on when Ultra HD will integrated on mid to high-end displays is Q2 2015. The key is content availability.

-Robert

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
1. i'd rather see higher color depth encodes, even at 1080p. That'll do wonders for films.
2. i dont get why standards dont go all the way. whats the point of them if they continually get completely tossed with every upgrade? we should have had a BDA international standardization of 16k maybe 24k 16bit color variable fps from 1 to 10,000 maybe more 3-D, open ended audio codec similar to dolby atmos or dts mda in 1995!!! that way you allow for everything else to catchup! imagine encoding a film in 16k highest color depth atmos esque audio mix on. disc then as new techniques arrive to decode them create connectors to do so
I agree 100%, but I doubt it will happen with HD, but many picture quality upgrades are already in the UHD standards, like rec. 2020, frame rates up to 120fps, 10bit to 12bit encoding and likely High Dynamic range will be added to the rec 2020 Ultra HD standard.

-Robert
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:40 PM   #6
Nocturnaloner Nocturnaloner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Zohn View Post
The key is content availability.
Bolded for emphasis. Look, if the Star Wars Original Unaltered Trilogy hits 4K as an exclusive, I start looking for a new TV. Otherwise? I will glance at the 4K displays in the store and smile as they play yet another IMAX travelogue, then happily go home and watch some movies in 1080p. End of story.
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:40 PM   #7
bhampton bhampton is online now
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I suggest

a) Easier access to native content

or

b) Demos that highlight the benefits of up converting a 1080p signal to 4K.


I was excited to see UHD when it arrived at my local BB. There was a nice beach scene that show-ed pretty well the higher resolution.

So excited I was that next time my family was in the store I said lets go look at the 4K set.

We get over there and there's a horrible music video playing that looks to be about 70% nothing but black screen... WTH?

I know no one in this house will be pestering me to go pick up a 4K set.

-Brian
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:28 AM   #8
Suntory_Times Suntory_Times is offline
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Hold the phone. Since when was rec2020 agreed upon as udhdtv's color gamut?
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Old 03-06-2014, 02:04 AM   #9
steve1971 steve1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturnaloner View Post
Bolded for emphasis. Look, if the Star Wars Original Unaltered Trilogy hits 4K as an exclusive, I start looking for a new TV. Otherwise? I will glance at the 4K displays in the store and smile as they play yet another IMAX travelogue, then happily go home and watch some movies in 1080p. End of story.
+1
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Old 03-06-2014, 03:08 AM   #10
Packerfan75 Packerfan75 is offline
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There just doesn't seem to be any incentive to upgrade. Standard 1080p blurays look fantastic. Who's really sitting there watching Tron Legacy saying, "yeah it looks ok but it really could look better"?
4K smacks of niche which is being filled by 3D right now. If anything it's for people who have money to burn and insist on having the very best possible of anything you can buy. Mostly for bragging rights.
Honesty, I've never seen a 4K tv and thought that it in any way trumps 1080p. It's not like bluray compared to dvd where the difference is obvious. You really have to look for it.
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Old 03-12-2014, 01:27 PM   #11
bhampton bhampton is online now
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I made a post a earlier in the thread after visiting my Best Buy and being disappointed at the in-ability to see Blu Ray upcoverted on the 4K set.

I mentioned it to someone in the store too.

Someone must agree because when I went to BB yesterday there is a new button on the display that gave me exactly what I wanted. There is a button that cuts directly to show Blu Ray unconverted on the 4K set... Looking at it, I couldn't tell it wasn't native 4K material.... I thought it looked AMAZING.

I don't want to start over with my video collection so showing me how blu ray would look on the 4K set it the best way to sell me 4K....

And,... it's working... I'm looking to stuff a piggy bank starting today... My next display will be 4K one way or another.

--Brian
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Old 03-12-2014, 02:21 PM   #12
editor*by*night88 editor*by*night88 is offline
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did anyone hear the news about a third format call archive disc ,which holds 300 gigabit of data from sony and panasonic?
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:30 PM   #13
bhampton bhampton is online now
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Saw that mentioned...

Don't see it as relevant much to AV... more computer storage...

Of course... as digital copies can be downloaded there is some overlap.

Still... I see no mention of the archival discs being used for new video/audio formats.

Last edited by bhampton; 03-12-2014 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 03-12-2014, 09:08 PM   #14
Robert Zohn Robert Zohn is offline
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Correct the 300gb optical storage disc is designed for data. But 4K, Ultra HD BD was approved by the BDA with a tipple layer 100gb disc.

So all is good in the Ultra -high-end world for near future of a/vphile 4K performance mastered on BD.

-Robert
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Old 03-16-2014, 03:19 AM   #15
CHEЯNOБLY! CHEЯNOБLY! is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packerfan75 View Post
There just doesn't seem to be any incentive to upgrade. Standard 1080p blurays look fantastic. Who's really sitting there watching Tron Legacy saying, "yeah it looks ok but it really could look better"?
4K smacks of niche which is being filled by 3D right now. If anything it's for people who have money to burn and insist on having the very best possible of anything you can buy. Mostly for bragging rights.
Honesty, I've never seen a 4K tv and thought that it in any way trumps 1080p. It's not like bluray compared to dvd where the difference is obvious. You really have to look for it.
Umm, that is exactly what people said about Blu-ray when was introduced. What incentive is there? 4k is double the resolution of 1080p. Same reasoning for the transition from DVD to BD. 1080p is a little more than double 480p DVDs.
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Old 03-16-2014, 01:00 PM   #16
kris26 kris26 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Zohn View Post
Correct the 300gb optical storage disc is designed for data. But 4K, Ultra HD BD was approved by the BDA with a tipple layer 100gb disc.


-Robert
Triple layers is 100gb...hmmm The curious question are they introducing 33gb single layer and 66gb double layer Blurays aswell
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:16 PM   #17
Dirk504 Dirk504 is offline
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I'm not an expert with the specs like some are, but I do go to Best Buy and the Sony store every so often just to look at the 4k TV's and they're stunning. I know they may tweak the settings to make them look better than all the other flat screens. But my Samsung plasma has great PQ and I can easily see the difference between my TV and the 4k TV's. I will be buying a new TV next year, hopefully with a new house. Prices will only get lower from here on out, so I've already started saving for one.
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:43 AM   #18
nick4Knight nick4Knight is online now
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I'd really rather see 1080p remasters (obviously folded into the hdmi 2.0 spec) flood the market.

Big ticket blu-rays that will pop on 10 bit encodes with the triple layer 100GB disc. Toss out the subsampling 4:2:0 bullstink I say!!! I want 4:4:4

Yeah. I'd buy a new player for increased full HD specs. Wouldn't necesarily invest in UHD titles though. It's just too much upgrading in the technology chain. Maybe once it has absolute market penetration it'd be something to consider with comparable pricing to 1080 tech. I see that as being 2018 if we're lucky

edit..

The absolute worst thing that could happen (and shockingly, may) for enthusiasts is if blu-rays in UHD are made with 12 bit encodes, thus compressed to fit on even large discs, slapped with 4:2:0 subsampling, just to accommodate the fact you have 4 times the resolution no one will ever perceive (viewing position relevant)

Last edited by nick4Knight; 04-03-2014 at 07:47 AM.
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Old 04-11-2014, 12:31 AM   #19
U4K61 U4K61 is offline
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Well, I finally got the chance to view 4K for the first time, and there is no turning back. I was fortunate to have been able to compare two equally sized 65 sets that were on display. The PQ was incredible, with a night and day difference in clarity over 1080p. While there was no actual 4K video being shown on the store display, it was punctuated from time to with 4K still images. Awesome, and just like viewing a really good 35mm print, I could change my viewing distance depending on what I was looking at. No more being stuck in a narrow proper viewing distance sweet-spot. It is now more dynamic and natural, as it is in the real world. This is a game changer; TV viewing will never be the same.
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Old 04-18-2014, 09:07 AM   #20
Canada Canada is offline
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They need to have at least 10 bit 4:4:4 or better yet 12 bit 4:4:4 because it's a lot easier to perceive a difference in colour and more precicly brightness than resolution. To perceive resolution alone from a regular seating difference you would need a projector to see the difference between 1080p and 2160p (consumer) 4K well for televisions anyway.

Last edited by Canada; 04-18-2014 at 09:14 AM.
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