The X-Files series - 4x3 vs 16x9

[bsweetness]

Originally Posted by TheOneWithThePrize

Protected for 16:9 but composed for 4:3, to be correct.

Which is what I said (if 4:3 was then intended broadcast aspect ratio at the time of filming, then that's what it would have been composed for). Your comment is more succinct, but I portrayed the same meaning.

But, if you want to get really correct in a way that more properly frames the situation, you should reverse the phrases in your comment as the protected AR (being the secondary one) should follow the composed AR.

"Composed for 4:3, but protected for 16:9."



Either way, if the OP really wants to be honest about the situation, it should be noted that the first four seasons were protected for 16:9. It's not arbitrary expanding and cropping that's being done for that AR.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by bsweetness

If that's the case, you really should note in the original post that while 4:3 was the intended aspect ratio for TV broadcast for the first four seasons, those first four seasons (save for the pilot) were protected for 16:9 framing when being filmed. They were thinking ahead and preparing for the show to potentially be shown in a 16:9 aspect ratio one day.

As the first post currently stands, it seems like you're clearly trying to sway people towards the 4:3 aspect ratio by leaving that very important piece of information out.

I am absolutely not trying to sway people towards the 4:3 choice. In fact, if you look at who voted, you can see that I chose 16x9. I was just trying to be impartial in the original post. If you'll notice, I did say:

"...The 16x9 is expanded horizontally...The 16x9 adds info to the sides..."

To be honest, I did have a few beers before I started this thread, and I agree that I could've made it more detailed and comprehensible. I guess I could go back and edit it to be more clear.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by chris_sc77

I can't think of anything else that has had this much improvement in terms of image quality for this release.

Have you checked out Star Trek The Next Generation sampler? If you ever want to convert someone to Blu-ray play the Encounter At Farpoint pilot episode on BD.

The X-Files is shaping up quite nicely. I'm worried about the price. I'd hope for a complete series set around the Friends price point but I'd imagine they're going to release them one by one initially. So it will be a while until I add them to my collection!

[bsweetness]

Originally Posted by frogmort

I am absolutely not trying to sway people towards the 4:3 choice. In fact, if you look at who voted, you can see that I chose 16x9. I was just trying to be impartial in the original post. If you'll notice, I did say:

To be honest, I did have a few beers before I started this thread, and I agree that I could've made it more detailed and comprehensible. I guess I could go back and edit it to be more clear.

It's just important information to include for people as many people might not realize it. There's a big difference between something that's being expanded/cropped from 4:3 to 16:9 years after the fact just to fill the screens of HDTVs and something that was protected and framed by the creators to be able to be properly viewed in either 4:3 or 16:9. The phrasing of the original post makes it seem as though the 16:9 might be a hack job while the 4:3 is the only thing the creators ever intended to be seen. I'm not saying that was the intention of the post, or that you believe that, but that's how the phrasing might lead some of those who don't know the specifics.

Having been protected for 16:9 by the creators is what makes this a legitimate debate for many. If it hadn't been protected for 16:9 when being filmed, a lot of people around here would have a very different opinion.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by bsweetness

It's just important information to include for people as many people might not realize it. There's a big difference between something that's being expanded/cropped from 4:3 to 16:9 years after the fact just to fill the screens of HDTVs and something that was protected and framed by the creators to be able to be properly viewed in either 4:3 or 16:9. The phrasing of the original post makes it seem as though the 16:9 might be a hack job while the 4:3 is the only thing the creators ever intended to be seen. I'm not saying that was the intention of the post, or that you believe that, but that's how the phrasing might lead some of those who don't know the specifics.

Having been protected for 16:9 by the creators is what makes this a legitimate debate for many. If it hadn't been protected for 16:9 when being filmed, a lot of people around here would have a very different opinion.

I completely revised the entire original post to hopefully make things more detailed and clear, while trying to remain as impartial as possible. I'm sure it's not perfect, but what do you think?

[Villiam Hayes]

If both can't be on there I would say 16:9

[focuspuller]

This evening I was watching the Jersey Devil episode (HD version). In The beginning of it you see a family driving by. It cuts to a shot of the family inside the car singing a song. The frame is filled perfectly on both sides and there is nothing cut off on the top/bottom.

From everything I have seen so far I would say 16:9 seem the most ideal. I think as well as looking better, it fits the show more. The VFXs are a product of their time, and unless they are going to be redone, stand that way. Cropping not withstanding.

[frogmort]

When I started this poll I figured it would be much, much closer than it is right now. Over 71% for 16:9.

After seeing some more of the new screenshots in the main X-Files thread, I am absolutely sold on hoping for 16:9 for the blu-rays, if we ever get them.

[Sansui01]

16:9 all the way. It just looks great.

I want same thing for Buffy and Farscape as well. For Farscape, it won't happen, but there is a chance for Buffy and X-Files!

[iamjohnw]

Agreed that the 16:9 images do look really nice, but the cinematographer in me hates to see things get cut to the protected image size. And I think some people might not be entirely sure what 'protected' actually means. Really, it's just planned cropping. When we film something, the monitor we use has a variety of aspect ratios overlaying it. If I'm shooting 4:3 but protecting for 16:9, I'll frame the shot artistically to use the entirety of the frame, but ensure that all the essential information can fit in the 16:9 aspect ratio.

The comparisons to the Stargate are interesting, but not entirely fair. Stargate was not protected for 16:9. It was shot in 16:9 and protected for 4:3. So basically the opposite way around. Stargates first seasons were released with the left and right sides cropped to fit a 16:9 source into a full frame. Seasons 1-4 of the X Files have a 4:3 source, and so to fit a 16:9 frame, you would crop the top and the bottom.

If they're released in a 16:9 presentation, it wouldn't be the end of the world, but I'd rather see the show the way it was intended. If the filmmakers were artistically framing for 4:3, but keeping it safe and protecting for widescreen exhibition, I think they should be shown in their OAR. But, if the creators really wanted the show to be widescreen, then go for that. Whatever the artistic intention was, that's what I want.

[Lonely and Blu]

So they "protected for 16:9", even though the 4:3 framing from the original broadcasts, VHS and DVD's looks proper more often than not? Yeah, yeah... "some of the 16:9 caps look good, too." I understand that. However, it's very difficult for me to believe that they wanted all the extra, pointless space on the sides and all the cut off text/heads/limbs/etc. (from the recent HD caps). I'm not saying it is, but it sounds like a load of crap to me. I'd prefer a 4:3 release the way the show was meant to be viewed. I couldn't care less about what they "protected for."

Not trying to start anything. Just throwing another vote for 4:3 out there. Besides, I will admit that the clarity looks to be such a huge improvement that I may give in to 16:9 anyway.

[rockin]

I voted for 16:9 because I think it looks pretty good (if a little cropped a times), and it freshens the whole experience up a bit. However, I would not object if the first 4 seasons were in 4:3. Either way I am fine with whatever they go with, but I do like some of the shots in 16:9 so far.

[Scarface32]

I think it should stay in its orignal aspect ratio. 4:3 for seasons 1-4 and 16:9 for the rest.




Although I don't remember it being presented in 16:9 on the TV, even toward the end of the run.

[LordCrumb]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

I think it should stay in its orignal aspect ratio. 4:3 for seasons 1-4 and 16:9 for the rest.




Although I don't remember it being presented in 16:9 on the TV, even toward the end of the run.

I guess it depends on the station broadcasting it. I can't recall the later seasons being 16x9, because New Zealand didn't switch to 16x9 broadcasting until several years ago lol

[John Bergqvist]

Well I would say neither, I'd prefer they used the Aspect Ratio as filmed, that way you don't lose any picture information at all.

With 4:3 it appears you gain some top & bottom but lose some from the sides (compared to 16:9)

But with 16:9 it appears you lose some from the top & bottom but gain some from the sides (compared to 4:3)

In fact, i wonder if it's possible (probably not but it would be a nice feature of blu-ray to implement, and it would please everyone) for the OAR (being the full Super 35 frame) footage (assuming it's not surrounded by boom mic's etc.) to be included on the disks, and have the software apply a matte or zoom of the user's choice to match what aspect ratio they want - of course you'd then loose quality if zooming to fill a 16:9 screen, sadly.

Assuming the later 16:9 seasons of the X-Files were filmed in Super 35 in the same manner, does that mean that we're always going to miss filmed picture information from the top & bottom for those seasons?

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by John Bergqvist

Well I would say neither, I'd prefer they used the Aspect Ratio as filmed, that way you don't lose any picture information at all.

With 4:3 it appears you gain some top & bottom but lose some from the sides (compared to 16:9)

But with 16:9 it appears you lose some from the top & bottom but gain some from the sides (compared to 4:3)

In fact, i wonder if it's possible (probably not but it would be a nice feature of blu-ray to implement, and it would please everyone) for the OAR (being the full Super 35 frame) footage (assuming it's not surrounded by boom mic's etc.) to be included on the disks, and have the software apply a matte or zoom of the user's choice to match what aspect ratio they want - of course you'd then loose quality if zooming to fill a 16:9 screen, sadly.

Assuming the later 16:9 seasons of the X-Files were filmed in Super 35 in the same manner, does that mean that we're always going to miss filmed picture information from the top & bottom for those seasons?

They could open up the sides without cropping anything off of the top and bottom to something close to a 1.67:1 aspect ratio with small pillar box black bars on the sides like this:

[Show spoiler]

which would be my preference, but I'm sure they won't do that. It would make too much sense.

[John Bergqvist]

Originally Posted by frogmort

They could open up the sides without cropping anything off of the top and bottom to something close to a 1.67:1 aspect ratio with small pillar box black bars on the sides like this:

[Show spoiler]

which would be my preference, but I'm sure they won't do that. It would make too much sense.

What aspect is the full-frame untouched Super 35 negative? 1.66:1 didn't you say? I'd prefer they just used that, that way you're using all available filmed image, and not throwing stuff away.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by John Bergqvist

What aspect is the full-frame untouched Super 35 negative? 1.66:1 didn't you say? I'd prefer they just used that, that way you're using all available filmed image, and not throwing stuff away.

It would be approximately something like that from what I understand, like the Python pic I just posted. For the original airing on tv, they chopped off the sides to make it fit the old 1.33:1 (4x3) tvs. If they want to make it fill up a 1:78:1 (16x9) tv, they would have to cut a tiny bit off of the top and/or bottom to make it fill the screen. I would prefer for them to just open up the sides and give us something like the Python pic, but I'm sure it will either be 4x3 the way it was originally aired without the side information, or 16x9 with a bit off the top and bottom.

[Pondosinatra]

I think it should be released in CinemaScope...

[Josh of the Decade]

I'd love to re-experience series 1-4 in 16:9! I'd also be more than happy with 1.66:1 if it was on the cards. The new German screen-caps are beautiful. Even the upscaled Mat Beck fx shots.

I don't think 16:9 goes against the original team's artistic intention. The X-Files was always leaning in cinematic directions, and it would appear they chose to go widescreen the first chance they had, even when 4:3 TVs were the standard (at least here in England). I feel reverting them back to their OAR would be a missed opportunity and a sort of half-measure.

That people are so excited, passionate and opinionated serves as a testament to the series' high quality and longevity. Even though it was very much a product of its time, its component DNA has stretched far into the future and continues to be stunning 20 years on.