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Old 02-27-2016, 12:45 AM   #1
Coenskubrick Coenskubrick is offline
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Default 8k will never be a home media format.

Excepting potentially a brief fad, 8k media will never be a home format. It may one day become a trend in theatres, particularly massive ones like Imax, perhaps to compete with home media.

Frame rate, colour space and bitrate may improve, but that's it.

The people who think 8 and 16k will be replacing 4k as a home media format... I can not comprehend how they actually believe that.
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Old 02-27-2016, 01:01 AM   #2
KRW1 KRW1 is offline
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Way to cover your bases, there. It won't ever be a home media format except for perhaps a brief fad. So it will and it won't.
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Old 02-27-2016, 01:08 AM   #3
Coenskubrick Coenskubrick is offline
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Way to cover your bases, there. It won't ever be a home media format except for perhaps a brief fad. So it will and it won't.
Okay, right, well what I mean is IF it is ever a home media format, it will be like Divx, it won't be like blu-ray, DVD, VHS or even laserdisc. It will be something that pops up for 5 seconds and nobody buys it, because it will be prohibitively difficult to create content for and nobody will be able to see the advantage of it except a few, very rich people.
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Old 02-27-2016, 01:08 AM   #4
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Once we move away from disk and player based home media there wont' be any limit or standard to what is or isn't a home media format.

Eventually televisions will just be oversized computer monitors, even more than they already are, and will simply play whatever digital format you feed into them.

Why can't 8K be a home format? If 8K televisions are in homes and they can decode an 8K file, somebody will put out content on it.

sadly UltraHD may be the last disk-based format. BUt it's already a fully digital format.

There would be no functional difference between a 100GB blu-ray disk and a 100GB SD card, except that you could pop the SD card directly into your tv and play it with nothing more than a firmware update.
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Old 02-27-2016, 01:09 AM   #5
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Why did you feel the need to make this thread?
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Old 02-27-2016, 01:12 AM   #6
Coenskubrick Coenskubrick is offline
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Why did you feel the need to make this thread?
To make a statement countering all the claims popping up in threads that in 6 years 4k won't be enough and people will be moving on to 8k. Having to point out the ridiculousness of it individually every time seems inefficient so here's a thread for it specifically so those arguments can be directed here.
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Old 02-27-2016, 01:50 AM   #7
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well I'm still not convinced that 4k is going to take off as far as physical media in concerned.

DVD sales are still doing well and refuse to die....

Retailers have mostly combined the 2 current formats (DVD/2K Blu ray) together from Target to Best Buy. It's not realistic to have a 3rd format on the shelves... something else needs to go away and, well, see above comment...

Streaming is getting bigger and bigger...

It's been suggested before that 4k discs might be like laserdisc was for the serious collector and I can see that possibly happening. Seeing it be the new mainstream format I think is really reaching....
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Old 02-27-2016, 01:53 AM   #8
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you do know that 8K displays are already announced for release here in the United States this year by two companies at CES 2016 last month?

you do know that Japan is currently developing and 8K broadcast for their country (NHK), completely bypassing 4K, that is intended to begin it's rollout in 2018 and be generally available in Japan for the Olympics in 2020?

you do know that 8K is expected to be included in the United States broadcast system (ATSC 3.0) currently under development, and recently demonstrated at the CES 2016 in 4K?

twenty years ago when i first heard of 8K, i thought exactly as you; certainly my thoughts have changed throughout the years, especially as i have been 'seeing' 8K demonstrations for several years now at CES

i completely understand how it might seem, but it is coming, and will be appreciated as our standard for viewing, as HD currently is

in the 'long view' of things; it will be as SDTV & DVD, just the 'way it is'





Quote:
Originally Posted by Coenskubrick View Post
Excepting potentially a brief fad, 8k media will never be a home format. It may one day become a trend in theatres, particularly massive ones like Imax, perhaps to compete with home media.

Frame rate, colour space and bitrate may improve, but that's it.

The people who think 8 and 16k will be replacing 4k as a home media format... I can not comprehend how they actually believe that.
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Old 02-27-2016, 01:54 AM   #9
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Given the nature of diminishing returns, the limits of human perceptual acquity (viewing angle/ distance vs. density vs human attention/distractabilty) and the known time-frame of adoption/transition from SD to HD, I think in terms of passive watching of narrative content, as usually presented on-film, that most people would likely be content, if not fully sated with 2K or 4K, yes.

Some people will always want the best thing, though, even if they can't experience it all in one outing and will "want/need" it, just to know that they have it and can peep in closer if they so choose.

But there are a few circumstances where the technology required for 8K or better, can play a bigger part, I think. In more immersive experiences, where one driving narrative isn't neccesarily the only focus, such as virtual reality or live experiences, such as on-location documentaries or even a stage play/musical experience.

I think the largest adoption, first-off, might be in the area of gaming/role-play, either with groups at entertainment complexes or possibly in the home of enthusiasts, at first, maybe spreading out as prices drop. Even if adoption isn't wide-spread, at first, volume, over time and refinement of the tooling will drive price drops, spurring more adoption.

The greatestp part driving the "wait and see" and "we're satisfied with what we have" dynamic, is from the view-point of cost/benefit early ticket-shock. $2000+ can buy you quite a few Blu_Rays and even more DVDs. It's only when the price drops, older tech dies and gets naturally replaced, often, that people in hind-site go "ahhh, this new thing is pretty satisfying, (though, I liked the previous thing and was pretty satisfied with that, too - I'm keeping most of the older stuff I have and am just going to buy new stuff on the new related format/tech that takes advantage of this new newness (and later rebuying some of the older things). I see why others liked it before and were so enthusiastic about it", that it becomes the defacto standard.

Last edited by LuminousMotion; 02-27-2016 at 02:11 AM. Reason: Typos, ever more and more typos.
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Old 02-27-2016, 02:19 AM   #10
Coenskubrick Coenskubrick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jibucha View Post
you do know that 8K displays are already announced for release here in the United States this year by two companies at CES 2016 last month?
No but that doesn't really surprise me. It's not tremendously hard to put a lot of pixels on a TV and I know it's been done.

Quote:
you do know that Japan is currently developing and 8K broadcast for their country (NHK), completely bypassing 4K, that is intended to begin it's rollout in 2018 and be generally available in Japan for the Olympics in 2020?
Yeah but I don't expect it to last long or be used for very much.

Quote:
you do know that 8K is expected to be included in the United States broadcast system (ATSC 3.0) currently under development, and recently demonstrated at the CES 2016 in 4K?
Do you realize that most TV broadcast is still SD and almost nobody cares?

8K is like the stuff in fashion shows, or concept cars. It exists and it's all very exciting, but it's also impractical and never going to actually be a thing the average consumer has access to or will buy. 4k tech has existed for forever and it's only now we're seeing it, and even then to sell it as a home media platform they had to package it with HDR and wide colour gamut, half of people say they can't even tell the difference in resolution, and even then most of the stuff released on it is upscaled from 2k or at least has all the effects rendered in 2k.

Last edited by Coenskubrick; 02-27-2016 at 03:33 AM.
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Old 02-27-2016, 08:02 AM   #11
jibucha jibucha is offline
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no :: although i have been watching broadcast television exclusively since it has been available; i have only watched prime time high definition (HD); why would i do otherwise - it's fantastic

in fact, it's so good, that my Blu-ray player comparisons have always been referenced to broadcast television; it's that good (by the way; only one Blu-ray player was even close, which is the one i use exclusively)




Quote:
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Do you realize that most TV broadcast is still SD and almost nobody cares?
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Old 02-27-2016, 08:17 AM   #12
KRW1 KRW1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coenskubrick View Post
Okay, right, well what I mean is IF it is ever a home media format, it will be like Divx, it won't be like blu-ray, DVD, VHS or even laserdisc. It will be something that pops up for 5 seconds and nobody buys it, because it will be prohibitively difficult to create content for and nobody will be able to see the advantage of it except a few, very rich people.
I can't see it being a disc based format or even a (primarily) movie based format but for large screen sporting and live events etc, 8k will definitely be a thing.

I fully expect to see a 'how does 4k UHD look upscaled to 8k?' thread around the start of the next decade.

They're going to super pricey the first lot, but for context, the first plasma TV I ever saw was SD and had a 25k price tag. Fifteen or so years later, you see much better ones thrown away fully working.

Last edited by KRW1; 02-27-2016 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 02-27-2016, 09:25 PM   #13
Anthony P Anthony P is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coenskubrick View Post
Do you realize that most TV broadcast is still SD
NO, most broadcasts are in HD, and unless it is old there is almost no chance it will be SD
Quote:
and almost nobody cares?
if by that you mean there are people that watch the SD feed on cable, that is true and for some it might be that they don't care but for others it is about saving a few bucks.
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Old 02-28-2016, 05:42 PM   #14
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Will 8K be the next big thing? Japan thinks so as they have already gone full steam ahead with 8K and bypassed 4K altogether but will it hit here in the U.S? At CES it was already being talked about by the manufacturer's so it is coming whether some people like it or not, it's just a question of when. Calling 8K just a fad could be applied to 4K as well because it hasnt yet caught on with the general buying public and I doubt it will because honestly the general public dont give a rat's A** about 4K. All they care about is having a nice shiny flat screen tv and that's about it. And most of them are still buying dvd and watching SD on those nice shiny flat screen tv's. Hell both my parent's have flat screen tv's with HD cable and they are still watching SD on them no matter how much I tell them to switch their channel's to HD!! They just dont care. But 8K is coming and just like 3D and 4K it will be the "Must Have" thing and apply only to those people who need and want the next big thing. But to say 8K will never be a home media format is wrong because mark my words it will. Its just a matter of time.
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Old 02-29-2016, 10:03 AM   #15
Coenskubrick Coenskubrick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony P View Post
NO, most broadcasts are in HD, and unless it is old there is almost no chance it will be SD
I had heard that this was still the case in the US. It is here in Australia at least. There is quite little shown in HD, even 720p isn't that common. Majority of the channels are SD.
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Old 03-01-2016, 08:48 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony P View Post
NO, most broadcasts are in HD, and unless it is old there is almost no chance it will be SD
Yes, but 720p HD.
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Old 03-06-2016, 08:33 PM   #17
Anthony P Anthony P is offline
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Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU View Post
Yes, but 720p HD.
true many are 720p, but that is still HD.
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Old 03-06-2016, 09:02 PM   #18
Petra_Kalbrain Petra_Kalbrain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coenskubrick View Post
Excepting potentially a brief fad, 8k media will never be a home format. It may one day become a trend in theatres, particularly massive ones like Imax, perhaps to compete with home media.

Frame rate, colour space and bitrate may improve, but that's it.

The people who think 8 and 16k will be replacing 4k as a home media format... I can not comprehend how they actually believe that.
Gotta love it when time travellers come back to the past to let us know these things so that we can all save ourselves from wasting our money, time, and energy on things that won't be worth it.

I can't hard enough right now.
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Old 03-07-2016, 09:49 AM   #19
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Hopefully proper 4K will be more widely used in cinema and 8K will be where 4K is now.
Then eventually 8K will work it's way into being a proper home standard, so far the two 8K TVs I know of have been extremely expensive and not really TVs.
Until we move away from pixels the numbers will increase both in cinema and at home.
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Old 03-07-2016, 12:02 PM   #20
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Never say never. I think truly epic home screens will be needed to make the most of it.

The tech giants will push for it but 4k is just beyond the visual acuity of most people at regular screen sizes, unless wall size projectors or Cinema screens become the norm. I struggle to see 8k taking off unless screens become so cheap that you may as well just use them.
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