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Old 03-07-2016, 01:15 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Anthony P View Post
true many are 720p, but that is still HD.
Most TV broadcasts are available in 720p or 1080i, but if I'm not mistaken most viewers are still watching the SD broadcasts. This shouldn't be at all surprising since DVD also outsells Blu-ray.
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Old 03-07-2016, 04:43 PM   #22
dobyblue dobyblue is offline
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Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU View Post
Yes, but 720p HD.
NBC and CBS are 1080i
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Old 03-07-2016, 05:09 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain View Post
Gotta love it when time travellers come back to the past to let us know these things so that we can all save ourselves from wasting our money, time, and energy on things that won't be worth it.

I can't hard enough right now.
Especially when they offer absolutely zero proof/evidence to back up their claims.

But it probably makes for a lot of fun.

In the future, people won't have babies like they do now. When folks are ready to be parents, the little critters will be subjected to accelerated growth in a lab and the new parents will pick them up aged to 8 years old so as to skip the whole messy diapers, midnight feedings, learning to walk and talk stuff so they can just have all the fun playing ball and baking cookies stuff instead.

That's even more fun than I thought. I'm going to walk around making predictions all day.
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Old 03-07-2016, 05:24 PM   #24
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What possible benefits are there to 8k over 4k as a home theater format (or even as a big theater format for that matter)? Wouldn't you have to sit too close to the screen to see the difference?

I know from my own experience that if I sit in the front row of a movie theater, that is too close for me to optimally view the movie because I can't take in the whole screen, and I'm still not close enough to be able to discern any difference between 4k and 8k at that distance. All the articles I've seen on optimal viewing distance appear to back that up. Here's an example:
https://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter/

For example, you'd have to be less than 5 feet away from an 80" screen to see the benefit of 8k over 4k.

As another example, sitting 9 feet from a 120" screen gives you over a 50% viewing angle, while the average human only has a 40% viewing angle. I haven't seen anyone recommending more than a 50% viewing angle. And you can't tell the difference between 4k and 8k at that distance.

Maybe there could be future content developed where you aren't supposed to look at the whole screen, but for all existing movie and television content, is there any possible benefit to 8k over 4k?

4k to 2k there is a (small) margin for improvement where you can still sit close enough to potentially tell the difference, but there doesn't appear to be any way to get any benefit from 8k for movie watching. What am I missing?
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Old 03-07-2016, 07:08 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asdqqq View Post
What possible benefits are there to 8k over 4k as a home theater format (or even as a big theater format for that matter)?
More pixels = better, especially on the larger screens of your local cinema. In theory it could offer an ever greater colour space and talk of better audio.
If I can notice the difference on my computer monitor between 1080p @ 24" and 2160p @ 30", I sure as hell can tell the difference on my TV.
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Old 03-07-2016, 07:54 PM   #26
Asdqqq Asdqqq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriousGamer View Post
More pixels = better, especially on the larger screens of your local cinema. In theory it could offer an ever greater colour space and talk of better audio.
If I can notice the difference on my computer monitor between 1080p @ 24" and 2160p @ 30", I sure as hell can tell the difference on my TV.
You literally (literally as in mathematical fact, law of nature) cannot see any difference in adding additional pixels once you get a certain distance from the screen. With a computer monitor, you are sitting very close to a small screen, you are usually focusing on just one small part of the screen you are working on or reading from, not trying to watch the entire thing, and your example involves going from 1080 to 4k, where you definitely can see a difference within reasonable viewing distances. But are you really going to sit less than 5 feet away from an 80" TV to watch a movie? Because that's the only way to see a difference between 4k and 8k, and that's just when you might get the first slightly noticeable difference. To actually get the full benefit of the 8k, that is to see all of the information in those 33 million pixels without being able to see the pixels themselves, you would have to sit 31 inches away from the 80 inch screen. And doing that will be miserable.

Here's an updated version of the article I noted above that I didn't notice before:
https://carltonbale.com/does-4k-resolution-matter/

Last edited by Asdqqq; 03-07-2016 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 03-07-2016, 08:32 PM   #27
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That Bale article isn't worth re-posting, it deals solely with resolution and makes no mention of any of the advantages of the new 4K format - 10-bit color, Rec.2020 color space, High Dynamic Range, advanced video codecs, etc.

No reason to assume an 8K format, should it ever arrive, wouldn't have further advancements in bringing a more realistic picture to the home.
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Old 03-07-2016, 08:58 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post
That Bale article isn't worth re-posting, it deals solely with resolution and makes no mention of any of the advantages of the new 4K format - 10-bit color, Rec.2020 color space, High Dynamic Range, advanced video codecs, etc.

No reason to assume an 8K format, should it ever arrive, wouldn't have further advancements in bringing a more realistic picture to the home.
I am definitely not linking to that article for the proposition that the UHD format is not better than 1080. UHD is definitely superior in real, substantive ways, and the content will follow. I'm just linking to the articles for the charts on viewing distance and visual acuity. Certainly there could be improvements in color, compression, etc. beyond the current UHD standard. But is there any possibility for practical improvement by simply increasing the pixel count from 4k to 8k, holding all else equal? I can't see any. If there is no visible improvement, than using any of the bandwidth in any future format on those millions and millions of extra pixels rather than additional color information or other features is a complete waste of space. If that's the case, the next format should be some enhanced version of 4k, not 8k.

I can't understand why that Japanese television station or anyone else would skip 4k and go to 8k. I believe the version of 8k they are talking about doesn't have any of those advantages you are talking about, it's just a bunch of extra pixels no one will ever see. It seems like it actually is the gimmick that some people try to say UHD is
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Old 03-07-2016, 09:22 PM   #29
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For people who think that 8K will not be a popular format is wrong. 8K will replace 4K someday. But as for 4K I expect it to take off like a rocket and that the consumers will be buying into its format. I Don't expect it take off right away but it will be eventually become the next best hi def format around.
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Old 03-07-2016, 09:32 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by fredreed View Post
But as for 4K I expect it to take off like a rocket and that the consumers will be buying into its format. I Don't expect it take off right away but it will be eventually become the next best hi def format around.
Sounds like the same pitch that was given for Blu-ray (vs. DVD) and we all know how that has turned out.
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Old 03-07-2016, 09:43 PM   #31
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I can't say it won't be but you pretty much have to skip every second format that comes out because by the time it is popular enough to be a standard, something else is already making its way out. Look at all the 4K stuff - I don't know if it will catch on as regular blu-rays are still around and so is dvd so it might be more of a niche thing. But give it a few more years and they might start pushing for the next big upgrade again and 8k would be there waiting since we are already talking about it. I think it is going to get tougher and tougher though to sell this to the general public as it is seem more as a luxury and upgrade now than anything else. Look at tvs - shows were filming 16x9 for years before the tvs were made that way. Even when they did come out, the public didn't jump all over it - it took years for it to happen. I can see the same thing being an issue here - need a bigger and better(therefore more expensive tv) to fully enjoy it but if there is no push, then why bother?
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Old 03-07-2016, 09:49 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by spectre08 View Post
Once we move away from disk and player based home media there wont' be any limit or standard to what is or isn't a home media format.

Eventually televisions will just be oversized computer monitors, even more than they already are, and will simply play whatever digital format you feed into them.

Why can't 8K be a home format? If 8K televisions are in homes and they can decode an 8K file, somebody will put out content on it.

sadly UltraHD may be the last disk-based format. BUt it's already a fully digital format.

There would be no functional difference between a 100GB blu-ray disk and a 100GB SD card, except that you could pop the SD card directly into your tv and play it with nothing more than a firmware update.
agree, i think cards will prob replace disks at some point
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Old 03-07-2016, 10:55 PM   #33
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No reason to assume an 8K format, should it ever arrive, wouldn't have further advancements in bringing a more realistic picture to the home.
i'm not in the 4k gimic because 8k tv sets are allready for sale in Japan so yes 8k will someday arrive around here it's not a suposition it's only a matter of time
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Old 03-07-2016, 11:37 PM   #34
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8K will someday be in the household but probably only for the rich. I think that 4K will last a long time but only for those who have a 4K tv.
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Old 03-08-2016, 12:13 AM   #35
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8K will someday be in the household but probably only for the rich. I think that 4K will last a long time but only for those who have a 4K tv.
Eventually everything that exists today will become cheaper to produce if there is a) demand for it and/or b) tech used to produce it becomes less expensive. With all technology it becomes cheaper to produce over time so they (manufacturers) have to come up with something new that they can charge more for. Eventually 8k will be the norm and everyone with a tv will eventually adopt it as it will be the only option on the market. Today if you tried to go out and buy a tube tv (480i), you won't be able to right? You have to buy an HDTV, at least 720P. I don't know how much longer 720P will even be around, soon everything will be 1080P because it'll be the bare minimum you can buy.

The OP says that 8k will never take off, how can you possibly know that? Matter of fact how can you even say such a thing given the history of tech? Anything that seems overkill or out of reach today, won't be at one point. I'm sure 30 years ago the thought of having a tv screen or GPS in your car was laughable.
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Old 03-08-2016, 12:36 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by jibucha View Post
no :: although i have been watching broadcast television exclusively since it has been available; i have only watched prime time high definition (HD); why would i do otherwise - it's fantastic

in fact, it's so good, that my Blu-ray player comparisons have always been referenced to broadcast television; it's that good (by the way; only one Blu-ray player was even close, which is the one i use exclusively)
Broadcast TV is 720P or 1080i in lower BitRates than bluray offers in 1080P.

Outside of the vibrant studio lighting techniques used for prime time broadcasts, the same source produced for Bluray should be superior given the progressive scanning at a higher resolution and bit rate.
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Old 03-08-2016, 10:00 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by 78deluxe View Post
Broadcast TV is 720P or 1080i in lower BitRates than bluray offers in 1080P.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-d..._United_States

You can click the "HD Format" column and sort the listing by picture mode.

37 HDTV networks by that list still use 720p. Among those are the ESPNs, ABC, FOX, FX.

If your TV is reporting 1080i for any of those networks, then check your cable box for a native resolution output option, because they almost always look better output as 720p and letting your TV handle the scaling than letting the box do the conversion.
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Old 03-08-2016, 03:58 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubious View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-d..._United_States

You can click the "HD Format" column and sort the listing by picture mode.

37 HDTV networks by that list still use 720p. Among those are the ESPNs, ABC, FOX, FX.

If your TV is reporting 1080i for any of those networks, then check your cable box for a native resolution output option, because they almost always look better output as 720p and letting your TV handle the scaling than letting the box do the conversion.

Comcast now has the option to set the X1 box to 1080p/60 even though there are zero broadcaster's using 1080p/60. Its what I have my X1 box set to.
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Old 03-08-2016, 05:36 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by gretzky2010 View Post
i'm not in the 4k gimic because 8k tv sets are allready for sale in Japan so yes 8k will someday arrive around here it's not a suposition it's only a matter of time
And what are you going to watch on that 8K TV set, exactly?
One of the literally zero films mastered in that resolution?

Setting aside the fact 8K is way beyond diminishing returns for standard TV viewing, anyone talking 8K is getting way ahead of themselves. If UHD flops, you think they're going to put out an even more niche format?
It might have use for things like VR, but that's way off in the future.
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Old 03-08-2016, 05:49 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Coenskubrick View Post
Excepting potentially a brief fad, 8k media will never be a home format. It may one day become a trend in theatres, particularly massive ones like Imax, perhaps to compete with home media.

Frame rate, colour space and bitrate may improve, but that's it.

The people who think 8 and 16k will be replacing 4k as a home media format... I can not comprehend how they actually believe that.
Lets all come back to this comment in 20 years.
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