8k will never be a home media format.

[42041]

Originally Posted by applemac

Lets all come back to this comment in 20 years.

Let's not forget that CDs have been essentially commercially unchallenged on the audio quality front for what, ~35 years? When something's good enough, sometimes it's just good enough. If higher quality audio makes a dent in the market, it will be because it gets pulled along for the ride by some killer feature people actually care about, and I think that'll be the case for any 8K video format as well (assuming even UHD is viable).

[dubious]

Originally Posted by steve1971

Comcast now has the option to set the X1 box to 1080p/60 even though there are zero broadcaster's using 1080p/60. Its what I have my X1 box set to.

That may work well for you, I haven't used the X1 box, but typically Comcast cheaps out on all their hardware so I wouldn't put too much faith into their deinterlacing quality. Have you tried outputting 1080i and letting your TV do the deinterlacing? The results may be better.

Originally Posted by applemac

Lets all come back to this comment in 20 years.

The current HDTV standards have been around almost 20 years now, and we're still far from cutting the SD channel cords on carriers. How much longer do you think carriers will continue to carry SD channels? Another 20 years?

[applemac]

Originally Posted by 42041

Let's not forget that CDs have been essentially commercially unchallenged on the audio quality front for what, ~35 years? When something's good enough, sometimes it's just good enough. If higher quality audio makes a dent in the market, it will be because it gets pulled along for the ride by some killer feature people actually care about, and I think that'll be the case for any 8K video format as well (assuming even UHD is viable).

Yes, but along with CDs we have DVD-A, SACD, BD-Audio; the latter two of which are still sold and have new releases. I think we have gotten to a point that home media technologies are rarely replaced completely but modified or extended and coexist.

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by applemac

Yes, but along with CDs we have DVD-A, SACD, BD-Audio; the latter two of which are still sold and have new releases. I think we have gotten to a point that home media technologies are rarely replaced completely but modified or extended and coexist.

Yup, definitely. Vinyl records usually come with download codes or a CD. I've had a few with download codes for additional tracks. It all manages to co-exist quite happily.

[Coenskubrick]

Originally Posted by applemac

Lets all come back to this comment in 20 years.

I bet I'm right. Very few movies even use up most of the resolution potential for 4k, and so many people can't even see the advantage of blu-ray over DVD, let alone 4k. I will concede it may be tested, but it will never find a lasting market, and there are other areas people will want to improve instead of resolution.

[jibucha]

fyi :: both 4K & 8K :: are included in the 'UltraHD' specifications (UHD-1 & UHD-2)

Originally Posted by spectre08

sadly UltraHD may be the last disk-based format. BUt it's already a fully digital format.

[Opips3]

Let me think about 8K....

North America and Europe are not ready. Sorry.

See you later 2025.

[fredreed]

I disagree that North America is not ready for 8K. I think that North America is ready but the majority of consumers are not ready for 8K yet. Most consumers don't even have a 4K TV only a 1080p tv. So I believe that 4K will most likely be the new standard for most consumers within a few years probably not until 2020 since cable companies still are using SD still. HD is still not that popular with most consumers yet. As far as 8K goes I think that format will still be non existent for at least a few years yet. But overall most consumers will be going with 4K very soon.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by 42041

Let's not forget that CDs have been essentially commercially unchallenged on the audio quality front for what, ~35 years? When something's good enough, sometimes it's just good enough. If higher quality audio makes a dent in the market, it will be because it gets pulled along for the ride by some killer feature people actually care about, and I think that'll be the case for any 8K video format as well (assuming even UHD is viable).

It depends what you mean by unchallenged. While CD is still the primary physical format, sales are in the toilet. At its peak in the U.S., 942.5 million CDs were sold in a year. I don't have final 2015 figures yet, but it was probably around 80 million units. LPs will probably come in at around 20 million units. Streaming subscription revenue (both paid and ad supported) is now slightly larger than physical media revenue. Even downloads, which are on the decline, bring in 3x the revenue of CDs.

But I do agree about "good enough". If MP3 has proved anything, it's that the market doesn't care about true audio quality and it probably never did. CD was successful not so much because of audio quality, but because of convenience. It didn't damage as easily as an LP; it sounded as good on the thousandth play as on the first play; once artists recorded primarily for CD, they tended to record more tracks and it took up less physical space. For most people with average systems, CDs certainly sounded better than LPs, especially after LPs got dusty, dirty or developed ticks and scratches, but I think the other factors drove sales more.

It also depends upon one's definition of quality. For most people, quality is defined by the factors I've listed above, as well as distortion and frequency response. On all those factors, CD wins vs. the LP. Only the audio geeks care about the other factors that for some, make the LP sound better than CDs and other digital media.

Of course, there's also a lot of hype and misperceptions. Most current LP lovers claim to love it because it's "analog", but something like 95% of LP masters are digital and/or were recorded digitally. Current LP fans also tend to conveniently forget that back in the LP days, we complained constantly about the poor quality of pressings.

And if we look at DVD-Audio and SACD, they were market failures. And I think it's fair to say that Blu-ray audio is also a market failure.

IMO, the transition to UHD and eventually to 8K will be "passive". The higher resolution in itself won't drive people to buy new sets, but when they buy a new set, it's going to be a higher resolution set because that's primarily what's going to be available. The higher resolution itself won't be perceptible in most situations, but the increased color gamut, high dynamic range, Dolby Vision and improved screen tech in the sets will be perceptible and might drive sales. But by the time we get to 8K, I think we'll be lucky if the traditional manufacturers are still in that business. My bet is that there won't be a physical format for 8K, but I also said that Blu-ray (1080p) was probably going to be the last physical format for video and I was wrong about that.

[applemac]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

And if we look at DVD-Audio and SACD, they were market failures. And I think it's fair to say that Blu-ray audio is also a market failure.

I've been able to even find DTS CDs at retailers in the past and even at used shops now. SACD/DVD-A were sold in stores, and some Fry's still stocks SACD (as of a year ago). BD-Audio I have found at music shops. Not sure how these are market failures when they are still available brick and mortal, and widely available online. Just because it isn't "mainstream" doesn't mean its a market failure, it just means the market is smaller, and it is able to be profitable in that market.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by applemac

I've been able to even find DTS CDs at retailers in the past and even at used shops now. SACD/DVD-A were sold in stores, and some Fry's still stocks SACD (as of a year ago). BD-Audio I have found at music shops. Not sure how these are market failures when they are still available brick and mortal, and widely available online. Just because it isn't "mainstream" doesn't mean its a market failure, it just means the market is smaller, and it is able to be profitable in that market.

Just because a format survives and is still ticking doesn't mean it wasn't a failure. A format when launched has certain expectations and if sales and market share fall far short of those expectations then it's fair to say that it was a failure. I don't know what sales and market share are for sacd or dvd-a, but I'm pretty sure they are low and not even remotely what was hoped for by the developers who spent a lot of time and money on R&D and marketing in hopes that it would eventually replace the CD.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

IMO, the transition to UHD and eventually to 8K will be "passive". The higher resolution in itself won't drive people to buy new sets, but when they buy a new set, it's going to be a higher resolution set because that's primarily what's going to be available. The higher resolution itself won't be perceptible in most situations, but the increased color gamut, high dynamic range, Dolby Vision and improved screen tech in the sets will be perceptible and might drive sales. But by the time we get to 8K, I think we'll be lucky if the traditional manufacturers are still in that business. My bet is that there won't be a physical format for 8K, but I also said that Blu-ray (1080p) was probably going to be the last physical format for video and I was wrong about that.

As far as TVs are concerned yes the transition will be mostly passive, just like it was with HDTVs and now 4K TVs. But they always have a choice on the software end, and obviously the transition to HDTV hasn't corresponded to a transition from DVD to Blu-ray. I'm hoping that with the other UHD BD upgrades other than resolution that consumers will appreciate it more since it doesn't require that you sit closer to appreciate the difference or get a larger TV than one normally gets. Of course it'll takes years before the lower and mid range TVs are 4K AND have HDR, but when they do, then I think UHD BD will have better sales potential than did Blu-ray.

[steve1971]

Originally Posted by dubious

That may work well for you, I haven't used the X1 box, but typically Comcast cheaps out on all their hardware so I wouldn't put too much faith into their deinterlacing quality. Have you tried outputting 1080i and letting your TV do the deinterlacing? The results may be better.





The current HDTV standards have been around almost 20 years now, and we're still far from cutting the SD channel cords on carriers. How much longer do you think carriers will continue to carry SD channels? Another 20 years?

Yea I tried the outputting of 1080i but the 1080/60p seems to have better clarity to my eyes.

I could see that happening. it will take 20 years or more before everything is HD let alone the carriers carrying 4K channels.

[voltz]

I worry if we'll ever see the same detail and clarity that goes with being at Imax (Hateful Eight/Intersteller).

[42041]

Hateful Eight wasn't shown at IMAX, to my knowledge.

IMAX is replacing its biggest 15/70mm screens with 4K projectors... even they don't care about 8K.

[voltz]

Japan is going 8k, I wonder what we're going to do on that?

[steve1971]

Originally Posted by voltz

Japan is going 8k, I wonder what we're going to do on that?

Ive heard the same thing voltz. Japan has already moved ahead with 8K and have seemed to by pass 4K. If and when it hits the U.S there are going to be alot of 4K folk's that are going to be pissed! Then again maybe not.

[voltz]

I'm also wondering at what point we'll be able to surpass 70mm 15-pef? I know that's probably the sole reason why Tarantino still isn't on board with digital.

[steev210]

Originally Posted by steve1971

Ive heard the same thing voltz. Japan has already moved ahead with 8K and have seemed to by pass 4K. If and when it hits the U.S there are going to be alot of 4K folk's that are going to be pissed! Then again maybe not.

I was in my local Best Buy checking out the 4K displays (I'm actually more interested in a 4K projector) but I got to talking to an associate and questioned him on when 8K would be hitting in the U.S. and he said its at least 10 yrs. away. I'm not so sure how accurate his info is but that's what he conveyed to me.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by steev210

I was in my local Best Buy checking out the 4K displays (I'm actually more interested in a 4K projector) but I got to talking to an associate and questioned him on when 8K would be hitting in the U.S. and he said its at least 10 yrs. away. I'm not so sure how accurate his info is but that's what he conveyed to me.

How would a Best Buy employee know anything about 8K?