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Old 03-23-2017, 11:55 PM   #21
frogmeat69 frogmeat69 is offline
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Really don't think there would be an amp made for home theater use, being that HT is typically multi channel set ups, and most headphone usage is 2 channel. I'm sure any of the amps mentioned would be good for movies, and your HD650's should be alright, though they do leak sound a bunch.

I have read good things about the Deckard amp, nice looking, too, here's a store demo unit for $529, https://www.razordogaudio.com/produc...INQxoCrhvw_wcB
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Old 03-24-2017, 02:31 AM   #22
koover koover is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frogmeat69 View Post
Really don't think there would be an amp made for home theater use, being that HT is typically multi channel set ups, and most headphone usage is 2 channel. I'm sure any of the amps mentioned would be good for movies, and your HD650's should be alright, though they do leak sound a bunch.

I have read good things about the Deckard amp, nice looking, too, here's a store demo unit for $529, https://www.razordogaudio.com/produc...INQxoCrhvw_wcB
After rereading my posts, I've really been asking the wrong question after the first few responses. Ive learned there's no amp made for home theater so thanx for setting me straight.
I'm just looking for an amp that would sound better or more suitable for movies versus music. I've received some solid suggestions and from what I've gathered, most to all seems to fit my needs.
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Old 03-27-2017, 01:24 AM   #23
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Ok, another question so please bare with me as I appreciate your patience.
Firstly, I don't believe the Jot amp with a DAC is feesable for what I'm ultimately looking for with home theater. I'll just get the Jot amp without the DAC for HT.
The question is, I'd like something permanent for my PC for music.
Would it be feesable to go the route with a modi 2 and magni 2 combo for the PC or am I going about this all wrong?
The Jot won't be portable so I'm assuming I'll need another set up for my PC that also won't break the bank that's quality too.

Last edited by koover; 03-27-2017 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 03-27-2017, 08:11 PM   #24
Vracer111 Vracer111 is offline
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If you want something that wont break the bank for PC music, that is also very portable and can be used with windows OS, Apple OS. Android devices, and iOS devices, check out the Audioquest Dragonfly Red DAC/amp. Its the size of a USB thumdrive yet packs a big audio punch. Extremely clear audio (even clearer sounding than my Schiit Bifrost/Meier JAZZ-ff setup) and very good dynamics and detail. It can be used with a wide variety of hardware too: plug it into your phone or tablet and get the same quality audio as when used with a latop or desktop machine. Probably the most versatile DAC/amp in existance and it has very good audio quality.

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/20...aps-on-notice/
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Old 03-28-2017, 01:00 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vracer111 View Post
If you want something that wont break the bank for PC music, that is also very portable and can be used with windows OS, Apple OS. Android devices, and iOS devices, check out the Audioquest Dragonfly Red DAC/amp. Its the size of a USB thumdrive yet packs a big audio punch. Extremely clear audio (even clearer sounding than my Schiit Bifrost/Meier JAZZ-ff setup) and very good dynamics and detail. It can be used with a wide variety of hardware too: plug it into your phone or tablet and get the same quality audio as when used with a latop or desktop machine. Probably the most versatile DAC/amp in existance and it has very good audio quality.

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/20...aps-on-notice/
Funny that you recommended that as it's in my Amazon cart right now. Now
With your recommendation and all the user and professional reviews out there, I'm going to pull the trigger on the dragonfly.
On another note, I did purchase the Jot without DAC for headphone usage on my HT. Getting stoked and can't wait to get it.
Also exited to hear what that little red dragonfly can do.
I'll give everyone my take from this virgin amp owner once I get everything, hook it up and test drive it.
Thanx to all (especially to you Vracer111) for all the input, advice and recommendations.
Cheers.......Greg
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Old 03-28-2017, 01:34 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vracer111 View Post
If you want something that wont break the bank for PC music, that is also very portable and can be used with windows OS, Apple OS. Android devices, and iOS devices, check out the Audioquest Dragonfly Red DAC/amp. Its the size of a USB thumdrive yet packs a big audio punch. Extremely clear audio (even clearer sounding than my Schiit Bifrost/Meier JAZZ-ff setup) and very good dynamics and detail. It can be used with a wide variety of hardware too: plug it into your phone or tablet and get the same quality audio as when used with a latop or desktop machine. Probably the most versatile DAC/amp in existance and it has very good audio quality.

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/20...aps-on-notice/
Forgot to ask.
Will this power my Sennheiser 650's?
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Old 03-28-2017, 04:59 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koover View Post
Forgot to ask.
Will this power my Sennheiser 650's?
Shouldn't be a problem.
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Old 03-28-2017, 05:55 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KcMsterpce View Post
Shouldn't be a problem.
Thanx, that helps a ton. That just solidified my decision.
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Old 04-06-2017, 01:35 PM   #29
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I received my Dragonfly Red yesterday and it's pretty good. The one thing I'm not too keen on is it has a "very" tough time driving my HP 650's on my PC. I have to crank it 100% on both to get any type of level. Now with my Sony MDR-1A's, that's a different story. Those rock and sound better then the Senn's.
On my IP 6S, both sets of cans do very well.
I'm very impressed with this little guy.
Still waiting on my Jot which I should have tomorrow.
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Old 04-07-2017, 06:41 AM   #30
Vracer111 Vracer111 is offline
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Leave the Dragonfly Red (DFR) plugged in and computer on for 24 hours and come back to it when it's optimal... bass comes out more and you'll hear more detail. Those 650's must be extremely hard to drive because about 20% level is LOUD on my laptop with my Fostex TH-X00 PH's. And on my Samsung Tablet.. sheesh! This is about a 75dB listening level:



And a little demo video; beccause why not and I need some more practice shooting video (one handed is not easy with manual focus prime lenses...LOL):


If you really want to see what the DFR is capable of and have a HT system with nice high quality dedicated amp for your mains then run FLAC file from USB Audio Player Pro off a Samsung Tablet into your receiver/processor in a bypass/direct mode straight to the amp so no processing is done by anything other than the DFR. My HT has NEVER sound as good as when I was running it off the DFR, analog bypassed into the NAD C 275BEE amp... I finally heard what it was capable of...crazy tight, intense bass and SO MUCH DETAIL in the mids and highs... the DAC section of the DFR is absolutely spectacular.

Last edited by Vracer111; 04-07-2017 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 04-08-2017, 06:21 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vracer111 View Post
Leave the Dragonfly Red (DFR) plugged in and computer on for 24 hours and come back to it when it's optimal... bass comes out more and you'll hear more detail. Those 650's must be extremely hard to drive because about 20% level is LOUD on my laptop with my Fostex TH-X00 PH's. And on my Samsung Tablet.. sheesh! This is about a 75dB listening level:



And a little demo video; beccause why not and I need some more practice shooting video (one handed is not easy with manual focus prime lenses...LOL):

UAPP + DFR + TH-X00 PH... - YouTube

If you really want to see what the DFR is capable of and have a HT system with nice high quality dedicated amp for your mains then run FLAC file from USB Audio Player Pro off a Samsung Tablet into your receiver/processor in a bypass/direct mode straight to the amp so no processing is done by anything other than the DFR. My HT has NEVER sound as good as when I was running it off the DFR, analog bypassed into the NAD C 275BEE amp... I finally heard what it was capable of...crazy tight, intense bass and SO MUCH DETAIL in the mids and highs... the DAC section of the DFR is absolutely spectacular.
Very cool. Thank you.
The DFR will not power the 650's on my IPhone or PC at all. It's probably 75db cranked on my phone and PC. Very disappointed. But again, the Sony MDR1-A's sound incredible on both. Maybe 50% and loud! I still have it in my PC and looking forward to hear it after about 40 hours burn in time.

Hey another question. Thoughts on getting the Asgard 2 and Modi 2 DAC for the 650's on the PC? Or the Modi/Magni combo? Will either combos
power the 650's moreso then the DFR.
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Old 04-08-2017, 09:57 PM   #32
Vracer111 Vracer111 is offline
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For the DFR it's not so much about burn in time as it is about time in operation from being off for a while. After a few hours or so being powered on you can notice that the bass seems better along with the details/separation. It's not a huge change, just enough to be noticeable, and while its optimal sound is after its been powered on for a while, the initial sound is like 95% of that... it's just a fine tuning of the details really.

You already have the DFR as a DAC, why not just get a Magni 2 Uber amp, run the DFR on the computer @ 100% volume output which puts it into line level mode and then control headphone volume with the Magni 2 Uber. The Magni 2 Uber is more of a full range amp compared to the Asgard 2 and has less distortion, lower output impedance, and higher S/N ratio than the Asgard 2 while output is almost as powerful @ 300ohms (320mW versus 380mW), it's half the size, and costs $100 less. Don't forget, you have a Jotunheim too you can use, so Magni 2 Uber would make more sense than an Asgard 2 to me. Later, if you want, you could always get a Modi 2 Uber DAC and keep the DFR more portable (which it absolutely excells at) while having a more permanent DAC for the computer that would match the Magni 2 Uber well. The DFR really improves car audio as well, phone->DFR->car head unit auxillary input = incredible performance from you vehicles sound system.

Specs of the Magni 2 Uber versus Asgard 2 taken off of the Schiit website:

Magni 2 Uber
[Show spoiler]Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-250KHz, -3dB

Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 2.1W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 1.5W RMS per channel

Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1.2W RMS per channel

Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 320mW RMS per channel

Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 160mW RMS per channel

THD: Less than 0.002%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS

IMD: Less than 0.003%, CCIF

SNR: Greater than 104db, unweighted, referenced to 1V RMS

Crosstalk: -70dB, 20 Hz-20KHz

Output Impedance: Less than 0.2 ohms

Gain: 1.5 (3db) or 6 (15.6db), selectable via rear switch
Preamp Output: Yes, controlled by volume pot and switched via headphone jack
Topology: Fully discrete FET/bipolar, constant feedback through audio band, complementary VAS drive, Class AB, DC coupled throughout

Protection: Standard failsafe DC power input and muting relay

Power Supply: “Wall wart” style 24VA 14VAC transformer, regulated +/-15V rails, with over 6,000uf filter capacitance
Power Consumption: 5W

Size: 5 x 3.5 x 1.25”

Weight: 1 lb


Asgard 2
[Show spoiler]Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-400KHz, -3dB
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 1.0W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1.0W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 380mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 190mW RMS per channel
THD: Less than 0.008%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS, high gain mode (worst case)
IMD: Less than 0.010%, CCIF at 1V RMS, high gain mode (worst case)
SNR: More than 102db, unweighted, referenced to 1V RMS, in low gain mode
Crosstalk: Less than -72dB, 20Hz-20KHz
Output Impedance: Less than 2 ohms
Gain: High = 6 (15.6db) or Low = 1.5 (3.5db), via rear switch
Topology: Fully discrete, single-ended Class A with single voltage gain stage, no overall feedback in high gain mode, 12dB feedback in low gain mode
Protection: Standard muting relay for delayed turn-on and fast turn-off
Power Supply: Internal power transformer with 4 separate power supply rails and over 20,000uf of filter capacitance
Power Consumption: 30W
Size: 9 x 6 x 2.25”
Weight: 5 lbs

Last edited by Vracer111; 04-08-2017 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 04-09-2017, 01:29 PM   #33
koover koover is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vracer111 View Post
For the DFR it's not so much about burn in time as it is about time in operation from being off for a while. After a few hours or so being powered on you can notice that the bass seems better along with the details/separation. It's not a huge change, just enough to be noticeable, and while its optimal sound is after its been powered on for a while, the initial sound is like 95% of that... it's just a fine tuning of the details really.

You already have the DFR as a DAC, why not just get a Magni 2 Uber amp, run the DFR on the computer @ 100% volume output which puts it into line level mode and then control headphone volume with the Magni 2 Uber. The Magni 2 Uber is more of a full range amp compared to the Asgard 2 and has less distortion, lower output impedance, and higher S/N ratio than the Asgard 2 while output is almost as powerful @ 300ohms (320mW versus 380mW), it's half the size, and costs $100 less. Don't forget, you have a Jotunheim too you can use, so Magni 2 Uber would make more sense than an Asgard 2 to me. Later, if you want, you could always get a Modi 2 Uber DAC and keep the DFR more portable (which it absolutely excells at) while having a more permanent DAC for the computer that would match the Magni 2 Uber well. The DFR really improves car audio as well, phone->DFR->car head unit auxillary input = incredible performance from you vehicles sound system.

Specs of the Magni 2 Uber versus Asgard 2 taken off of the Schiit website:

Magni 2 Uber
[Show spoiler]Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-250KHz, -3dB

Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 2.1W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 1.5W RMS per channel

Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1.2W RMS per channel

Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 320mW RMS per channel

Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 160mW RMS per channel

THD: Less than 0.002%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS

IMD: Less than 0.003%, CCIF

SNR: Greater than 104db, unweighted, referenced to 1V RMS

Crosstalk: -70dB, 20 Hz-20KHz

Output Impedance: Less than 0.2 ohms

Gain: 1.5 (3db) or 6 (15.6db), selectable via rear switch
Preamp Output: Yes, controlled by volume pot and switched via headphone jack
Topology: Fully discrete FET/bipolar, constant feedback through audio band, complementary VAS drive, Class AB, DC coupled throughout

Protection: Standard failsafe DC power input and muting relay

Power Supply: “Wall wart” style 24VA 14VAC transformer, regulated +/-15V rails, with over 6,000uf filter capacitance
Power Consumption: 5W

Size: 5 x 3.5 x 1.25”

Weight: 1 lb


Asgard 2
[Show spoiler]Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-400KHz, -3dB
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 1.0W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1.0W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 380mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 190mW RMS per channel
THD: Less than 0.008%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS, high gain mode (worst case)
IMD: Less than 0.010%, CCIF at 1V RMS, high gain mode (worst case)
SNR: More than 102db, unweighted, referenced to 1V RMS, in low gain mode
Crosstalk: Less than -72dB, 20Hz-20KHz
Output Impedance: Less than 2 ohms
Gain: High = 6 (15.6db) or Low = 1.5 (3.5db), via rear switch
Topology: Fully discrete, single-ended Class A with single voltage gain stage, no overall feedback in high gain mode, 12dB feedback in low gain mode
Protection: Standard muting relay for delayed turn-on and fast turn-off
Power Supply: Internal power transformer with 4 separate power supply rails and over 20,000uf of filter capacitance
Power Consumption: 30W
Size: 9 x 6 x 2.25”
Weight: 5 lbs
Good stuff.
I believe I'll use the DFR strictly for my IPhone/IPad and keep it portable. The Jot will be a permanent solution for my HT setup and then I'm probably going to get the Modi/Magni 2 combo as a permanent solution for the PC.
Dude, I appreciate the effort and time you invested into your communication to me. Very kind.
Going to try this on my phone in my car. Didn't even think of that.
Just to think, less then 30 days ago, I didn't even know what a DAC was and what's all this business with these headphone amps? LOL. It's bit me and deep.
Once everything is up and running, I'll give you my thoughts and also just chat while we're at it.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:55 AM   #34
koover koover is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vracer111 View Post
For the DFR it's not so much about burn in time as it is about time in operation from being off for a while. After a few hours or so being powered on you can notice that the bass seems better along with the details/separation. It's not a huge change, just enough to be noticeable, and while its optimal sound is after its been powered on for a while, the initial sound is like 95% of that... it's just a fine tuning of the details really.

You already have the DFR as a DAC, why not just get a Magni 2 Uber amp, run the DFR on the computer @ 100% volume output which puts it into line level mode and then control headphone volume with the Magni 2 Uber. The Magni 2 Uber is more of a full range amp compared to the Asgard 2 and has less distortion, lower output impedance, and higher S/N ratio than the Asgard 2 while output is almost as powerful @ 300ohms (320mW versus 380mW), it's half the size, and costs $100 less. Don't forget, you have a Jotunheim too you can use, so Magni 2 Uber would make more sense than an Asgard 2 to me. Later, if you want, you could always get a Modi 2 Uber DAC and keep the DFR more portable (which it absolutely excells at) while having a more permanent DAC for the computer that would match the Magni 2 Uber well. The DFR really improves car audio as well, phone->DFR->car head unit auxillary input = incredible performance from you vehicles sound system.

Specs of the Magni 2 Uber versus Asgard 2 taken off of the Schiit website:

Magni 2 Uber
[Show spoiler]Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-250KHz, -3dB

Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 2.1W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 1.5W RMS per channel

Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1.2W RMS per channel

Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 320mW RMS per channel

Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 160mW RMS per channel

THD: Less than 0.002%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS

IMD: Less than 0.003%, CCIF

SNR: Greater than 104db, unweighted, referenced to 1V RMS

Crosstalk: -70dB, 20 Hz-20KHz

Output Impedance: Less than 0.2 ohms

Gain: 1.5 (3db) or 6 (15.6db), selectable via rear switch
Preamp Output: Yes, controlled by volume pot and switched via headphone jack
Topology: Fully discrete FET/bipolar, constant feedback through audio band, complementary VAS drive, Class AB, DC coupled throughout

Protection: Standard failsafe DC power input and muting relay

Power Supply: “Wall wart” style 24VA 14VAC transformer, regulated +/-15V rails, with over 6,000uf filter capacitance
Power Consumption: 5W

Size: 5 x 3.5 x 1.25”

Weight: 1 lb


Asgard 2
[Show spoiler]Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-400KHz, -3dB
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 1.0W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1.0W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 380mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 190mW RMS per channel
THD: Less than 0.008%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS, high gain mode (worst case)
IMD: Less than 0.010%, CCIF at 1V RMS, high gain mode (worst case)
SNR: More than 102db, unweighted, referenced to 1V RMS, in low gain mode
Crosstalk: Less than -72dB, 20Hz-20KHz
Output Impedance: Less than 2 ohms
Gain: High = 6 (15.6db) or Low = 1.5 (3.5db), via rear switch
Topology: Fully discrete, single-ended Class A with single voltage gain stage, no overall feedback in high gain mode, 12dB feedback in low gain mode
Protection: Standard muting relay for delayed turn-on and fast turn-off
Power Supply: Internal power transformer with 4 separate power supply rails and over 20,000uf of filter capacitance
Power Consumption: 30W
Size: 9 x 6 x 2.25”
Weight: 5 lbs
One more question.
I bought the magni uber and the modi 2 DAC for my PC.
I got the RCA cable for the stack, but what cable do I need to run from the Magni to the PC?
I know this is basic to you or most anyone else but if you knew me, this is rocket science.
Regards
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Old 04-11-2017, 03:21 AM   #35
Vracer111 Vracer111 is offline
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You mean cable from Modi - you connect only the DAC to the PC, not the headphone amp. Modi 2 only has a USB input that is for both its power and data (Type B male for DAC end and Type A male for computer end). Modi 2 Uber is powered with wall adapter and in addition to USB input, also has optical and digital coax inputs.
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:26 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vracer111 View Post
You mean cable from Modi - you connect only the DAC to the PC, not the headphone amp. Modi 2 only has a USB input that is for both its power and data (Type B male for DAC end and Type A male for computer end). Modi 2 Uber is powered with wall adapter and in addition to USB input, also has optical and digital coax inputs.
Thanx. See what I mean?
You saved me the problem of hooking it up wrong. I would have eventually figured it out but your heads up saved me a lot of heartburn.
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Old 04-14-2017, 02:36 AM   #37
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Got my Magni uber/modi stack hooked up today on my PC. All I can say is WOW. Powers my HP 650's like a charm. I'm in audio bliss
Also hooked up the Jot to HT today and again, I'm blown away. Had some trouble hooking it up but another fine community assisted me through it.
The DFR just kills it on my IPhone 6S so in my mind, I won the triple crown today.
My only snag is I didn't even realize my Sony MDR1-A's plug doesn't input into anything as it's too small. Need an adapter cable. Today JUST couldn't be perfect, but damn close.
The 650's are performing on a level I've never heard before. I wish I would have learned about this entire HP amp/DAC world a long time ago, but oh well, better late then never. I do find the bass on the 650's a bit laid back but they're so much richer and refined pre M&M stack set-up.
The Sony's thump but the highs are way too bright for me versus the Senns.
Anyway, I started this thread and posted enough times that I felt I should
Let you guys know how I fared with everything.
Looking forward to chatting with everyone, when someone's actually on here. Lol.

Today has been a VERY good day.
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Old 04-14-2017, 03:08 AM   #38
Vracer111 Vracer111 is offline
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Now go ahead and take some pictures and post in the headphone (cans) rig thread....
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Old 04-15-2017, 01:05 AM   #39
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Yes, headphone porn pics are always welcome, and those 650's are special when properly powered, congrats.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:09 PM   #40
koover koover is offline
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Lol..... here we go again. I'm so bad at everything when it comes to this stuff. It's impossible to be my age and continue to be so ignorant with anything electronics and computers. I'm 57 going on 21.... believe me.
I want to post pics of my collection, my HT and now my HP/amps/DAC but I'm a dumb-Shiit with this stuff. As soon as I figure out how to download ALL the pics I have then post, I'll be unstoppable. But right now I'm stuck in he mud.
Soon guys.
Greg
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