Regular Blu-ray on 4K TV

[benji888578]

Can someone direct me to the place to ask this question, I've tried searching and not finding:

Upscaling...

I've got some titles on DVD that may never come out on a newer format and, I've tried ripping, but, there is a noticeable difference between watching this and watching the DVD upscaled in my panny blu-ray player. Something about the panasonic processing that improves the detail. (I tried using MakeMKV to pull the original files as is, then using PLEX to play on Apple TV. None of the PLEX settings looked as good as playing it through the bd player.)

Anyone know of (Mac) computer ripping or upscaling software that will look as good or better than upscaling the physical DVD in my bd player? (Panasonic DMP-BDT230).

Please let me know where to post this

Thank you!

[cochon]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Is there something specific about 4K TVs that make Blu-rays look better than on 1080p TVs?

You are probably using a 4k tv that is superior to the 1080 tv you are using as a comparison basis. Any upscaling if anything should make the picture worse as you are only increasing the amount of pixels based on the original. The process might play with sharpening, changing contrast, etc but that's it, if the detail is not there, is not there.

With technology sometimes things go backward but certainly not with TVs, Picture quality of 4K tv's is pretty good these days. So even the cheap ones have fairly good picture compared to older 1080 displays, specially if they weren't that good to start with.

If you look closely you may still find a good 1080's fair better compared to cheap 4k with fast moving action, tricky dark, bright scenes or general build quality but I think most newer TV have had great improvements over what was available a few years ago.

[benji888578]

To add to what cochon is saying, without getting too technical, the color spec for HD/1080p is Rec709 (or sRBG), there are many, many, many 1080p LCD TVs that reproduce less than about 75% of this color range. The new 4K panels, for the most part, go beyond Rec709 into much of the P3 color range, a few reaching over 90% of the P3 color range. (...P3 is what you've been seeing in digital cinemas for some time now).

So, part of the "upscaling" is the color, you are seeing all the color available in the 1080p blu, whereas before, you may not have been, having more color range also adds to perceived depth. If you've been to someone's house that has an HDTV that's either a cheap display or set to Vivid or otherwise not showing you true colors, it may be bright, but, often facial features will seem flat, that's usually the takeaway that it's not reproducing the full Rec709 color range.

So, it's not just about resolution, as many seem to think.

[Shalashaska]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Does a regular 1080p Blu-ray look worse on a 4K TV than on a 1080p TV? I thought maybe it would be similar to playing a non-anamorphic widescreen DVD on a 16:9 TV and zooming in but I have no idea if this correct.

In theory, it's not anywhere near as bad.

For one, non-anamorphic DVDs are very low-res. Speaking in NTSC terms, scope films are ~720x268, so in order to fill a full 1920x1080 screen, you have to scale each pixel 10-11 times. There's just not anywhere near enough detail for it look very good on a HD TV. Even with anamorphic DVDs, the picture has to be stretched horizontally, then upscaled, and 480p's still pretty low-res compared to 1080p.

With HD content on 4K screens, you're only scaling each pixel four times, and there's no worries about aspect ratios or any of that.

And, leaving the numbers behind, there's just far less discernible difference between the jump from SD to HD and the jump from HD to 4K. HDR's the big sell here, 4K on its own probably isn't worth the upgrade.

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

I remember watching DVDs on my old 4:3 TV and some of them looked better than on a 16:9 TV. Not exactly sure why. Maybe it's because old TVs handle interlaced content better. The colors weren't as vibrant and I'd see ghosting on the 16:9 TV.

Anyway, is there a technical reason why 1080p Blu-rays look better on a 4K TV than a 1080p TV? Are the pixels on the disc being duplicated or scaled larger?

CRTs could hide some of the flaws with low-res content. They're no where near as sharp as modern LCDs, the screens are much smaller than today's digital displays, and they kind of provide a natural anti-aliasing/smoothing effect to low-res video. Not to mention CRTs were designed to display 15 kHz/480i content, so there's no scaling going on.

Colours shouldn't look "more vibrant" though. Contrast and black levels might be a bit better if you're still using a mid-late '00s LCD but colour settings might've just been cranked to the top on the CRT.

[DRC72]

I played a BD movie on my LG 4K TV with my PS3 being the player, and I was absolutely amazed at how good the picture was. Now I'm guessing that my 4K LG TV has a very sophisticated up-scaling circuit? Not all TVs are equal, and I certainly wouldn't think my PS3 has anything to do with it since it's basically a 1080p device.

[Ryandj]

just curious- what specs would you look for in a tv that would do the optimal upscale?

honestly I think 4k blu ray is a cash grab and I have zero interest in rebuying my collection.

furthermore, has anyone done a side by side comparison with an upscale blu ray disc to a 4k blu ray disc?

thanks so much for the feedback

[Ryandj]

Originally Posted by AKORIS

I'll second that..... blu rays look much, much better on a 4k TV. I noticed deeper blacks and stronger colors immediately....

noticed you have some 4k uhd's in your collection- how would you compare the PQ between the upscaled blus and the 4ks?

[Dauntless]

When we switched from SDTV to HDTV 2 things happened. We went from interlaced displays to progressive displays and most of us doubled the screen size from 25" to 50".

Interlaced images don't display properly on progressive displays and need to be deinterlaced. Deinterlacing degrades the picture quality and there is nothing that can be done about that. Interlaced images is the biggest problem with upscaling DVDs on progressive displays and why DVDs can look worse on a HDTV.

The bigger your screen the more resolution you need to fill it. DVDs looked fine on a 25" TV but not so great on a 50" TV. Blu-ray is good enough for 50" but not 100". Blu-ray will look good on a 50" 4K TV because its enough resolution for the physical display size. 4K Blu-ray's advantage for most people isn't the bump in resolution but all the other features it brings.

Blu-ray might look better on a 4KTV because it may have a better LED panel than the HDTV it is replacing. Most 4KTVs are built to stricter standards to meet the HDR specs whereas HDTV's quality varies considerably. Thus a high end OLED HDTV will beat a low end LED 4KTV for blu-ray.

Upscaling doesn't make things look better but can make things worse if not done correctly. Fortunately its much easier to upscale Bluray to 4K than it is with DVD. To convert HD 1920x1080 to 4K UHD 3840x2160 all you have to do is multiply by an even two. DVD's odd 720x480/576 anamorphic content takes more work and the interlacing issues don't help.

If all things are equal than the 50" 4KTV will likely edge out a 50" HDTV for Blu-rays because of the higher pixel density. The pixels of a 50" 4KTV (3840x2160) are packed closer together in the same physical space than a 50" HDTV (1920x1080). Think Retina displays. Apple classifies their screens as Retina if it is sharp enough for the human eye not to be able to see individual pixels at a typical usage distance. A 4KTV of the same physical size as a HDTV should have smaller pixels that are harder to individually see by the human eye.

[Landonio]

Question on upscaling. When playing standard 1080p Blu-rays on an Xbox One S/X on a 4K television, what should my resolution settings be for the best possible quality? Currently I just have both my Xbox and TV set to 4K HDR. Is that correct? Picture looks good, but should I be setting my Xbox to 1080p instead? My Xbox is an X and TV is a Sony X800D.

[KyleZombie]

Is there any reason to re-buy a movie that I already own on blu ray? I bought Black Panther on blu ray right before I got my 4K set-up (hadn't planned on upgrading, did it on a whim) and I heard it looks great on UHD but the blu ray also looks phenomenal on my UHD player and LG 4K TV. I don't want to have to re-buy my entire collection for the 3rd (or 4th) time so do you think it's worth it?

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by KyleZombie

Is there any reason to re-buy a movie that I already own on blu ray? I bought Black Panther on blu ray right before I got my 4K set-up (hadn't planned on upgrading, did it on a whim) and I heard it looks great on UHD but the blu ray also looks phenomenal on my UHD player and LG 4K TV. I don't want to have to re-buy my entire collection for the 3rd (or 4th) time so do you think it's worth it?

That's the question isn't it. The Studios want you to re-buy everything, and many will. Since the VHS days I have upgraded my favorite Movies. DVD to Blu-ray, and now to UHD. I enjoy and love Digital, so my UHD is Digital UHD and I'm slowly replacing my favorite Movies this way. We Love our Movies!

[obligatory_username]

Slightly off topic, but how bright do you guys watch SDR content? So far I've stuck with using the auto-dimmer with the base values all the way up; it's the first time that feature's ever worked on one of my TV's. It seems to output the same brightness as my 1080p screen at max. I've tried out a few movies with the brightness at full, but it just seems too overpowering.

What brightness is SDR intended to be viewed at? 50% of HDR, or even less? I know it's supposed to be 100 nits, but how does that translate to the settings available on the TV?

[DavePS3]

The biggest difference in running the bluray compared to the 4K is the HDR. As for XBOX/PS4... both should be set to 4K!

Said this before but if you're using the exact same settings for both BluRay and 4K discs, you're doing one of those, an injustice.

[Blu-Curry]

Anyone try watching DVD films through a UHD player on a 4K TV? I wonder how it looks.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Blu-Curry

Anyone try watching DVD films through a UHD player on a 4K TV? I wonder how it looks.

Well coming from the perspective of using a Oppo player upscaling it to 2160P for a 4K OLED, it can look better then what you ever saw watching on a older HDTV. I have several hundred DVD's still and time to time I play them, nothing appears worse, only to some degree better dependent on the DVD master quality with interpolation algorithms applied to the 4KTV.

For example StarGate SG1 looks quite tolerable to watch.

[Blu-Curry]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Well coming from the perspective of using a Oppo player upscaling it to 2160P for a 4K OLED, it can look better then what you ever saw watching on a older HDTV. I have several hundred DVD's still and time to time I play them, nothing appears worse, only to some degree better dependent on the DVD master quality with interpolation algorithms applied to the 4KTV.

For example StarGate SG1 looks quite tolerable to watch.

lol Thanks for the reply. I agree it'll depend on the DVD quality. I don't have 4K yet, but I wonder about watching some of my DVD films lol, I plan on getting some of them on 4K after skipping the blu-ray.

[TheBluRayBandito]

I haven't upgraded to 4k, but do 4k players play DVDs? If so, how are those on 4k TVs?

edit: Answered a few posts above.

[jack_of_america]

The 4K OLED display has breathed new life into my BD collection. It feels like 1080p is being fully realized with the upscale, to the point where it's like I'm watching these films for the first time all over again. Exciting stuff.

[Mattgreenbean]

I don't see that it's been answered with a straight yes or no, but, if you watch a bluray disc through a bluray player on a 4ktv, then watch the same disc through a uhd player, does the bluray disc look better?

[wxman2003]

Originally Posted by Mattgreenbean

I don't see that it's been answered with a straight yes or no, but, if you watch a bluray disc through a bluray player on a 4ktv, then watch the same disc through a uhd player, does the bluray disc look better?

It depends. If the UHD player has a better upscaler than the tv, then yes. If not, no. I do not notice any difference between my Oppo 203, Panasonic 9000 UHD players and my Oppo 103D when watching BD movies. With Darbee engaged on the 103D, blu ray looks better than on my 203 and 9000.