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Old 12-06-2019, 01:29 AM   #21301
Fenway55 Fenway55 is offline
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Originally Posted by Martoto View Post
Whatever excuses you wish to give the OT, the OT we got wasn't planned out that way from the start.

So therefore the OT must be an epic fail by your standards. Otherwise why keep harping on about the importance of following a plan and defining the ST by its supposed lack of one?
Unfortunately for you, your logical connection has no logic involved. You're either making faulty if/then deductions, or merely not understanding what I wrote. My advice is to go back and reread, perhaps more slowly, and try again.
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Old 12-06-2019, 01:31 AM   #21302
Fenway55 Fenway55 is offline
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I'm a lot more cool with tracking people through hyperspace (convenient time shaver though it is) than I am with Holdo's hyperspace blitzkrieg.
Good point. FWIW, I don't have a problem with the hyperspace tracking either, my problem is with the the slow-speed chase where the 2 groups were going pretty much at exactly the same speed. Weaksauce.
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Old 12-06-2019, 01:34 AM   #21303
Fenway55 Fenway55 is offline
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If you think this movie is going to fail...you are sadly mistaken.
The problem with the above is that "fail" is such a ridiculously vague term. One movie's box office "failure" is another movie's mind blowing success.

Tell ya what: You give me a dollar figure (domestic or worldwide, whichever you prefer) which marks what you consider a "failure" for ROTS, and I will let you know if it will fail.
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:27 AM   #21304
Martoto Martoto is offline
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Originally Posted by Fenway55 View Post
The problem with the above is that "fail" is such a ridiculously vague term. One movie's box office "failure" is another movie's mind blowing success.

Tell ya what: You give me a dollar figure (domestic or worldwide, whichever you prefer) which marks what you consider a "failure" for , and I will let you know if it will fail.
Doesn't sound like a problem for anyone who wants to stamp TROS a failure regardless of how it performs.

Or, with the insight and prescience you must have, why don't you just tell us exactly what the movie will do at the BO and why that result will be a failure? That would be much simpler and less "vague".
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:36 AM   #21305
Martoto Martoto is offline
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Great, I love knowing that we are going in with a condescending tone.

The facepalm was because I don't think that even you believe the stuff you are shoveling. .
Oh right. The facepalm reply shouldn't have been treated with condescension because it's based on what you think I believe?

I only scanned the rest of your post. I recognise the usual accusation that I'm trying to give people an inferiority complex. Jesus.

And the insinuation that I'm some sort of knee-bender/Johnson worshipper. "Flawless" strawmen etc.

If someone makes a point in support of their opinion that can be refuted then I'll dispute it. Even if their opinion is already broadly in line with my own.

I don't give a shit if other people feel that I or anyone else shouldn't be seen to do that too often. If it bothers them and they're anxious about offending people by being consistent or are offended that their opinions or the argument they employ to support them don't go unchallenged, then that's their problem.

Last edited by Martoto; 12-06-2019 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:26 AM   #21306
s2mikey s2mikey is offline
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Originally Posted by Fenway55 View Post
The problem with the above is that "fail" is such a ridiculously vague term. One movie's box office "failure" is another movie's mind blowing success.

Tell ya what: You give me a dollar figure (domestic or worldwide, whichever you prefer) which marks what you consider a "failure" for ROTS, and I will let you know if it will fail.
Iíve stopped paying attention to dollar amounts for movies and using that as a gauge of how good or bad they are. The transformers sequels all made billions but they are horrible films. The fast and furious franchise is juvenile shit but those also make trillions.

It matters not. I just want TROS to be good, thatís all. Itís opening weekend regarding sales is inconsequential to me.
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:59 AM   #21307
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It matters not. I just want TROS to be good, thatís all. Itís opening weekend regarding sales is inconsequential to me.
I don't want good; I want great. The ninth and final movie of this triple trilogy deserves nothing less.

Disney has painted itself into a corner by not having an overall connected narrative planned for the trilogy. TLJ threw a wrench into the works and the creative minds that are putting together TROS (going by past movies they have made) don't have the creative brilliance to finish up with a superior film that tops all of the other Star Wars films.

I'll have to settle for good enough for TROS and I'm not so sure that will even happen.
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Old 12-06-2019, 01:50 PM   #21308
s2mikey s2mikey is offline
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Originally Posted by Franchot View Post
I don't want good; I want great. The ninth and final movie of this triple trilogy deserves nothing less.

Disney has painted itself into a corner by not having an overall connected narrative planned for the trilogy. TLJ threw a wrench into the works and the creative minds that are putting together TROS (going by past movies they have made) don't have the creative brilliance to finish up with a superior film that tops all of the other Star Wars films.

I'll have to settle for good enough for TROS and I'm not so sure that will even happen.
OK - thats fair and I should also set the bar high. TROS must be great! I certainly want it to be. If it is then it makes the sequel trilogy much more enjoyable as a whole. So yeah - lets shoot for GREAT!
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Old 12-06-2019, 02:36 PM   #21309
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Originally Posted by Martoto View Post
Oh right. The facepalm reply shouldn't have been treated with condescension because it's based on what you think I believe?

I only scanned the rest of your post. I recognise the usual accusation that I'm trying to give people an inferiority complex. Jesus.

And the insinuation that I'm some sort of knee-bender/Johnson worshipper. "Flawless" strawmen etc.

If someone makes a point in support of their opinion that can be refuted then I'll dispute it. Even if their opinion is already broadly in line with my own.

I don't give a shit if other people feel that I or anyone else shouldn't be seen to do that too often. If it bothers them and they're anxious about offending people by being consistent or are offended that their opinions or the argument they employ to support them don't go unchallenged, then that's their problem.




The facepalm was a "really? You believe what your saying?," not for condescension. But hey, I'm sure Rian Johnson is keeping tabs on your White Knighting.
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Old 12-06-2019, 02:51 PM   #21310
Martoto Martoto is offline
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Originally Posted by phlyle11 View Post
The facepalm was a "really? You believe what your saying?," not for condescension.

Again. Just because it was you responding to what I think I believe doesn't make your face-palm immune from condescension.



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.....White Knighting.
By what perverse logic am I supposed to avoid being condescending to that?

Last edited by Martoto; 12-06-2019 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 12-06-2019, 03:45 PM   #21311
Fenway55 Fenway55 is offline
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Doesn't sound like a problem for anyone who wants to stamp TROS a failure regardless of how it performs.

Or, with the insight and prescience you must have, why don't you just tell us exactly what the movie will do at the BO and why that result will be a failure? That would be much simpler and less "vague".
I've already made my prediction in the box office thread, have you? No, I didn't think so.

Also, as I have stated many times, one movie's "failure" is another movie's success story. ROTS will not "fail" the way Solo failed; i.e., unlike Solo, it will manage to make a profit. But that doesn't mean the powers-that-be are happy with the continued downward trend this franchise is facing.

Last edited by Fenway55; 12-06-2019 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 12-06-2019, 03:49 PM   #21312
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Iíve stopped paying attention to dollar amounts for movies and using that as a gauge of how good or bad they are. The transformers sequels all made billions but they are horrible films. The fast and furious franchise is juvenile shit but those also make trillions.

It matters not. I just want TROS to be good, thatís all. Itís opening weekend regarding sales is inconsequential to me.
I understand your thought process and agree to a certain extent however, the reason I follow these numbers is because in a franchise such as this, the box office will direct relate to the future direction of the franchise itself.

It's no coincidence that shortly after Solo completely bombed at the box office that Iger announced the Star Wars "slow down." He knows the franchise is heading in the wrong direction and the box office numbers have a huge impact on the future of the franchise.
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Old 12-06-2019, 04:13 PM   #21313
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Originally Posted by Fenway55 View Post
The problem with the above is that "fail" is such a ridiculously vague term. One movie's box office "failure" is another movie's mind blowing success.

Tell ya what: You give me a dollar figure (domestic or worldwide, whichever you prefer) which marks what you consider a "failure" for ROTS, and I will let you know if it will fail.
Better yet... WHO GIVES A ****!?! The dollar amount this, or any, film makes, high or low, will change no one's life in here other than to stroke their synthetic, online vanity. Move on and start enjoying a real life for a change...

Last edited by Cliff; 12-06-2019 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 12-06-2019, 04:14 PM   #21314
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Originally Posted by Fenway55 View Post
Also, as I have stated many times, one movie's "failure" is another movie's success story. .
Ah. Another "it's all subjective" argument.
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Old 12-06-2019, 04:25 PM   #21315
s2mikey s2mikey is offline
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Originally Posted by Fenway55 View Post
I understand your thought process and agree to a certain extent however, the reason I follow these numbers is because in a franchise such as this, the box office will direct relate to the future direction of the franchise itself.

It's no coincidence that shortly after Solo completely bombed at the box office that Iger announced the Star Wars "slow down." He knows the franchise is heading in the wrong direction and the box office numbers have a huge impact on the future of the franchise.
Good point about future films and some of what happens next rising on the financial success of the sequels. Theyíll make a ton of money though, I bet.

For me and Iím sure some others, once the Skywalker saga officially wraps up Iím potentially done with Star Wars. Why? Well, all things must end at some point. I mean, they can only keep replaying the same old storylines at this stage which wonít be that interesting to me. The new characters are OK and all but I canít imagine how much "more" Star Wars I need with 10 movies and whatever TV shows to watch. Iím a Luke, Han and a Leia guy. Once you take them out....itís like taking Aragorn, Arwen, and Frodo out of LOTR: Iím done at that point!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
Better yet... WHO GIVES A ****!?! The dollar amount this film makes, high or low, will change no one's life in here other than to stroke their synthetic, online vanity. Move on and start enjoying a real life for a change...
Whoa. Relax! The guy did make a good point about future films being affected by how TROS does financially. I donít think it will matter since it will make a lot of cash.
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Old 12-06-2019, 04:39 PM   #21316
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Ah. Another "it's all subjective" argument.
Yes, the term "failure" is often a subjective one.

Now man up and give us your box office prediction. I gave mine a couple weeks ago.
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Old 12-06-2019, 04:41 PM   #21317
Fenway55 Fenway55 is offline
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Better yet... WHO GIVES A ****!?! The dollar amount this, or any, film makes, high or low, will change no one's life in here other than to stroke their synthetic, online vanity. Move on and start enjoying a real life for a change...
I explained why box office matters. It has a direct - and often immediate - impact on the future of the franchise (and can often have an impact on the industry as a whole). So for people who enjoy watching and discussing movies (which is kinda what this forum is about) then box office is pretty important.
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Old 12-06-2019, 04:44 PM   #21318
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For me and Iím sure some others, once the Skywalker saga officially wraps up Iím potentially done with Star Wars. Why? Well, all things must end at some point. I mean, they can only keep replaying the same old storylines at this stage which wonít be that interesting to me. The new characters are OK and all but I canít imagine how much "more" Star Wars I need with 10 movies and whatever TV shows to watch. Iím a Luke, Han and a Leia guy. Once you take them out....itís like taking Aragorn, Arwen, and Frodo out of LOTR: Iím done at that point!
I am very much of the same mindset. Quite honestly, after E9, it'll be case-by-case for me. I am not going to commit to seeing or not-seeing a movie still several years out so I'll just look at the marketing and make my decision when the time comes based on whether or not I think it looks good.
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Old 12-06-2019, 04:45 PM   #21319
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Originally Posted by s2mikey View Post
Whoa. Relax! The guy did make a good point about future films being affected by how TROS does financially. I don’t think it will matter since it will make a lot of cash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenway55 View Post
I explained why box office matters. It has a direct - and often immediate - impact on the future of the franchise (and can often have an impact on the industry as a whole). So for people who enjoy watching and discussing movies (which is kinda what this forum is about) then box office is pretty important.
Ok... so how does predicting or rooting for a film's success or failure play into that? Solo was always going to rise or fall all on its own (as is TROS). Predicting that isn't being a "part of the process" - it's nothing but an ego wank.
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Old 12-06-2019, 04:49 PM   #21320
Martoto Martoto is offline
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Yes, the term "failure" is often a subjective one.

Now man up and give us your box office prediction. I gave mine a couple weeks ago.
Yeah It's a subjective meaning you can move the goalposts.


Err yeah. I posted mine two weeks ago too.

Last edited by Martoto; 12-06-2019 at 05:05 PM.
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